kjj44752@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Kirsten J Johnson) (10/13/90)
I am posting the following message for my brother since he is unable
to post. Please followup here or send email to him at:
uunet!cs.utexas.edu!ibmchs!auschs!marichal.austin.ibm.com!jeff
----
I was playing around with my DOS setup the other day and noticed some
very weird behaviour of the SHELL= statement in CONFIG.SYS.
I need more than 160 bytes of environment space. I have been using
shell=c:\command.com /p /e:768
since DOS 3.1. That is one of the first things I set when installing a
new system. Well, the other day, I was reformatting my C: drive when a
noticed that my floppy access was great deal faster than usual. I also
ran Norton SI which reported my machine was faster than normal.
Normally, I get an SI of 27.2-27.4 depending on which way the wind
blows. That day, I got 30.3 repeatedly.
After some head scratching and poking around, I traced to the fact that
I didn't have a SHELL= statement in my CONFIG.SYS. When I have a
SHELL= statement, my floppy accesses are very slow (ie a DIR or FORMAT
take a LONG time) and my machine reports lower numbers on Norton SI. My
floppy drives have always been slow, and I thought it was my BIOS or
the WD HD/FD controller, but doesn't appear to be anymore. The
difference in speed is like night and day!
Any ideas or insights are welcome.
Here is my system configuration:
Microsoft MS-DOS 3.30A (OEM version from DTK)
DataExpert 386/25 Motherboard
C&T Chipset
AMI BIOS 9/15/89-k9
8 Meg 80ns 1Mx9 SIPP RAM (Interleaved for near 0 WS)
65MB CDC 5.25" Half Height Hard Drive
110MB CDC 5.25" Full Height Hard Drive
1.2M Teac 5.25" Floppy Drive
1.44M Toshiba 3.25" Floppy Drive
WD1006V-SR2 1:1 RLL HD/FD controller
2S/1P/1G multi-I/O Card
AST-Four Port Serial Board
Paradise VGA Plus Board (800x600x16)
SoundBlaster Board
Logitech C7 Serial Mouse
Taxan 770+ MultiVision Monitor
Northgate OmniKey Plus Keyboard
Has anyone developed a patch to COMMAND.COM to change the default
environment size without using SHELL=? I have the SETENV.EXE Microsoft
ships with MSC 5.1. It patches the default enviroment size in many
versions of COMMAND.COM, but not 3.30A.
Does anyone else think that 160 bytes of environment space is ludicrous?
My path can be longer than that.
Jeff
--
Jeff Johnson 10926 Jollyville Rd #1420
Computer Consultant Austin, TX 78759 (512) 343 0675
Email -> uunet!cs.utexas.edu!ibmchs!auschs!marichal.austin.ibm.com!jeff
Disclaimer: "My views and opinions do not reflect those of IBM"pilger@uhunix1.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu (Eric Pilger) (10/14/90)
In article <1990Oct12.224956.21168@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> kjj44752@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Kirsten J Johnson) writes: >Does anyone else think that 160 bytes of environment space is ludicrous? >My path can be longer than that. > It's as ludicrous as 16 characters of type ahead. I usually can't even get the next command typed waiting for the current one to finish. Actually, my path seems to be limited to ~120 bytes, after which it truncates. Yet another anomoly of DOS that is no end of an annoyance. Eric Pilger Systems Programmer NASA Infrared Telescope Facility
ariel@seer.UUCP (Catherine Hampton) (10/16/90)
In article <9849@uhccux.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu> pilger@uhunix1.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu (Eric Pilger) writes: >>Does anyone else think that 160 bytes of environment space is ludicrous? >>My path can be longer than that. >> >It's as ludicrous as 16 characters of type ahead. I usually can't >even get the next command typed waiting for the current one to finish. > >Actually, my path seems to be limited to ~120 bytes, after which it >truncates. Yet another anomoly of DOS that is no end of an annoyance. Actually, the culprit is the DOS command line, which is 127 characters long. If you can feed info into a PROMPT without using the command line, DOS has room for at least twice that much. PLUG -- 4DOS, a command shell/COMMAND.COM replacement for MS-DOS, expands the command line to 256 characters. In addition, you get aliases, history, vastly improved internal command and variables set, vastly improved batch language almost approaching a programming language in power (has user input, flow control, branching, IF/THEN/ENDIF statements, etc.). It's on most local MS-DOS BBS's as 4DOS302A.ZIP. It's shareware -- try it for 21 days and, if you like it, pay the owners $35.00 to register. I've used it for over a year with an enormous range of products and haven't come up against a serious conflict yet. Cathy _________________________________________________________________ Catherine A. Hampton BITNET: hampton@reed.BITNET CIS: 71601,3130 Fidonet: Cathy H. @ 1:125/32 GEnie: C.HAMPTON3 Internet: hampton@reed.EDU / ariel@seer.COM
tom@netmbx.UUCP (Thomas Filz) (10/17/90)
pilger@uhunix1.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu (Eric Pilger) writes: >Actually, my path seems to be limited to ~120 bytes, after which it >truncates. Yet another anomoly of DOS that is no end of an annoyance. Hey, why would anybody want such a long path? Ever thought about the time you would save with a shorter path and a batch directory for calling all those application programs? Do you know what happens every time you issue an external command? Dos searches every single directory listed in your path and in case you didn't spell your command quite as it should have been, this might take some time. So limiting the number of directories in your path might make the time waiting for the "unknown command" message a lot shorter. So if you want all those hundreds of programs on your disk directly accessible why don't you create a directory containing lots of batchfiles to do this job? The path can thus be limited to three entries: DOS, BATCH and one for all those small utilities. Great isn't it? :-O Have fun! Thomas Filz
koch@motcid.UUCP (Clifton Koch) (10/18/90)
>>>Does anyone else think that 160 bytes of environment space is ludicrous? >>>My path can be longer than that. >>> >>Actually, my path seems to be limited to ~120 bytes, after which it >>truncates. Yet another anomoly of DOS that is no end of an annoyance. > > Actually, the culprit is the DOS command line, which is 127 characters > long. If you can feed info into a PROMPT without using the command line, > DOS has room for at least twice that much. > The culprit is usually the environment space, which is defaulted to 127 characters. This is the area that stores the path, prompt, any set something=something_else type commands. If you have dos 3.3 (I think thats the cutoff, but 3.2 may also have the shell feature) you can use the SHELL= comand in config.sys to increase the environment space. I think the line I use is: SHELL=COMMAND.COM /P /E=512 There may be a switch or two I'm missing, but the 512 is giving 512 bytes of environment space, and I believe it can go to 64K, if you really feel like it. The /P option makes the shell the permanent one.
browns@iccgcc.decnet.ab.com (Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems) (10/18/90)
In article <652@seer.UUCP>, ariel@seer.UUCP (Catherine Hampton) writes: > In article <9849@uhccux.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu> pilger@uhunix1.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu > (Eric Pilger) writes: >>>Does anyone else think that 160 bytes of environment space is ludicrous? >>>My path can be longer than that. >>> >>It's as ludicrous as 16 characters of type ahead. I usually can't >>even get the next command typed waiting for the current one to finish. You can shorten your path dramatically. Suppose you want to point to (among others) C:\UTILITY\NORTON C:\UTILITY\DBASE4 C:\UTILITY\LOTUS123 C:\WORD Use the SUBST command, like this: SUBST X: C:\UTILITY SUBST W: C:\WORD Then you can abbreviate your path like this: PATH ...;X:\NORTON;X:\DBASE4;X:\LOTUS123;W:\... Or use a separate SUBST, with a separate letter, for each directory: SUBST X: C:\UTILITY\NORTON SUBST Y: C:\UTILITY\DBASE4 SUBST Z: C:\UTILITY\LOTUS123 SUBST W: C:\WORD and then just the letters (with backslashes) in your path: PATH ...;X:\;Y:\;Z:\;W:\... You can put the SUBST commands in your AUTOEXEC.BAT. You need to change your CONFIG.SYS by inserting this statement anywhere: LASTDRIVE=Z The SUBST command is in your DOS manual. The drive lettery you create can be used in COPY, DIR, and all the other DOS commands, so this has uses beyond just shortening your path. The above opinions are not attributable to any other person or company. email: browns@iccgcc.decnet.ab.com Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Cleveland, Ohio, U.S.A. +1 216 371 0043
diamond@ontmoh.UUCP (Gerald Diamond, ENV 326-1661) (10/18/90)
From article <1236@netmbx.UUCP>, by tom@netmbx.UUCP (Thomas Filz): > pilger@uhunix1.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu (Eric Pilger) writes: > >>Actually, my path seems to be limited to ~120 bytes, after which it >>truncates. Yet another anomoly of DOS that is no end of an annoyance. > > Hey, why would anybody want such a long path? Ever thought about the time > you would save with a shorter path and a batch directory for calling all > those application programs? > >some useful advice omitted... > Thomas Filz Other things you can do include 1. keep you directory names *short* 3 letters will do most of the time 2. write a batch file that saves your default path in an environment variable and crate a new, temporary path which includes the directory you have the program in (or "in which you have the program" for grammar types :-) ) 3. write a batch file that moves you to the correct directory I prefer a combination of 1. and 3. and have one or two batch files that together run the majority of my software. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= diamond@ontmoh.uucp A non-spokesman for everything except me & my bike There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want. - Calvin
heja@sun1.ruf.uni-freiburg.de (Herbert Jaegle) (10/19/90)
tom@netmbx.UUCP (Thomas Filz) writes: >Hey, why would anybody want such a long path? Ever thought about the time >you would save with a shorter path and a batch directory for calling all >those application programs? On your own little PC with a stable configuration of applications and utilities this may be acceptable. But what if you are managing 50 PCs with 15 or more application programs, compilers using more than one directory for programs (such as C600 (bin, binb)). You are looking for .EXE, .COM files writing batch files for each one. .BAT files have to be called by "Call". And what would happen if an application uses batch files to call executables ? They may not use "call", so if they are calling your script, they never return. Have you ever tried to remove an application with more than one executable ? What about updates ? You do not known all names ? -- much fun. But there is another problem with long PATHs. Some systems are truncating PATH, others are crashing if the PATH exceeds maximum length. For example HP MS-DOS 4.01 does. Use short names and hope ... Herbert ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Herbert Jaegle MAIL: Fraunhofer Institute for Solar Energy Systems DL7GAP Oltmannsstr. 22 D 7800 Freiburg, West Germany EMAIL: heja@ise.fhg.de ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
shack@cs.arizona.edu (David Michael Shackelford) (10/20/90)
In article <1486.271c8a08@iccgcc.decnet.ab.com> browns@iccgcc.decnet.ab.com (Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems) writes: > >You can shorten your path dramatically. Suppose you want to point to >(among others) > C:\UTILITY\NORTON > C:\UTILITY\DBASE4 > C:\UTILITY\LOTUS123 > C:\WORD > >Use the SUBST command, like this: > SUBST X: C:\UTILITY > SUBST W: C:\WORD > >Then you can abbreviate your path like this: > PATH ...;X:\NORTON;X:\DBASE4;X:\LOTUS123;W:\... This should be used only with caution! There are some programs which choke when a SUBST is in effect. In fact, my DOS manual lists around 6 DOS commands (can't remember specifics right now and books arent here) which are bothered by SUBST. The same warning is given for JOIN, which is used to make two drives look like one. The problem with long paths is twofold: the environment space and command line length. The command line is limited to 127 chars, so taking out the PATH_ it only leaves 122 for the actual path. There are several utilities on SIMTEL which claim to allow massive paths, but the ones I've tried only managed to crash the system. (again, I don't have specifics right now) Dave. shack@cs.arizona.edu
marshall@wind55.seri.gov (Marshall L. Buhl) (10/20/90)
koch@motcid.UUCP (Clifton Koch) writes: >>>>Does anyone else think that 160 bytes of environment space is ludicrous? >> > The culprit is usually the environment space, which is defaulted to 127 >characters. This is the area that stores the path, prompt, any set >something=something_else type commands. If you have dos 3.3 (I think thats >the cutoff, but 3.2 may also have the shell feature) you can use the SHELL= >comand in config.sys to increase the environment space. I think the line >I use is: >SHELL=COMMAND.COM /P /E=512 It's the same for 3.2. If you're using 3.1, you enter the environment in 16 byte paragraphs. The shell statement for 512 byte environments would then be: SHELL=COMMAND.COM /P /E=32 If I remember correctly, this was an undocumented feature in 3.1. If you're using DOS 2 or 3.0, you should have upgraded long ago. ;-) >There may be a switch or two I'm missing, but the 512 is giving 512 bytes >of environment space, and I believe it can go to 64K, if you really feel >like it. The /P option makes the shell the permanent one. My DOS 4 manual says the limit is 32K. I don't use any other switches. -- Marshall L. Buhl, Jr. EMAIL: marshall@seri.gov Senior Computer Missionary VOICE: (303)231-1014 Wind Research Branch 1617 Cole Blvd., Golden, CO 80401-3393 Solar Energy Research Institute Solar - safe energy for a healthy future
davidsen@sixhub.UUCP (Wm E. Davidsen Jr) (10/21/90)
In article <1486.271c8a08@iccgcc.decnet.ab.com> browns@iccgcc.decnet.ab.com (Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems) writes: | You can shorten your path dramatically. Suppose you want to point to | (among others) | C:\UTILITY\NORTON | C:\UTILITY\DBASE4 | C:\UTILITY\LOTUS123 | C:\WORD | | Use the SUBST command, like this: | SUBST X: C:\UTILITY | SUBST W: C:\WORD You can make it shorter, but there will still be a problem with some programs which don't run well with SUBST in effect. One thing which is important is to get the directories in the correct order, to minimize the number of directories searched. You can also copy the things you use the most to RAMdisk, and execute them from there. That really will save time, don't forget to fix your path, and don't forget to put command.com out there, too. -- bill davidsen - davidsen@sixhub.uucp (uunet!crdgw1!sixhub!davidsen) sysop *IX BBS and Public Access UNIX moderator of comp.binaries.ibm.pc and 80386 mailing list "Stupidity, like virtue, is its own reward" -me
davidsen@sixhub.UUCP (Wm E. Davidsen Jr) (10/21/90)
One other thought on this, some shells keep a hash table of commands,
so that the commands will be found by search once, and then by direct
lookup. MKS ksh is one example of this, there are others.
--
bill davidsen - davidsen@sixhub.uucp (uunet!crdgw1!sixhub!davidsen)
sysop *IX BBS and Public Access UNIX
moderator of comp.binaries.ibm.pc and 80386 mailing list
"Stupidity, like virtue, is its own reward" -mepilger@uhunix1.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu (Eric Pilger) (10/21/90)
In article <marshall.656374834@wind55> marshall@wind55.seri.gov (Marshall L. Buhl) writes: >koch@motcid.UUCP (Clifton Koch) writes: > >>>>>Does anyone else think that 160 bytes of environment space is ludicrous? >>> >> The culprit is usually the environment space, which is defaulted to 127 >>characters. This is the area that stores the path, prompt, any set The culprit is actually, as others have mentioned, the limit imposed by DOS on the length of a command. I have a huge environment, but it doesn't help my path any. The best solutions semm to remain (as others have suggested): 1.) shorten your directory names, 2.) use SUBST, 3.) clench your teeth and hope for the best. My environment is, in fact, so large that it has revealed yet another interesting feature in DOS. Some programs (older versions of Procomm, a piece of software I am currently beta testing, etc.) will fail with "Out of Environment Space" if you use more than a certain amount of environment. The two instances of this I have discovered failed at just under 800 bytes. Doesn't matter how much you give it with "shell=...", if you use up more than the magic number of bytes, failure. Any ideas? Eric Pilger Systems Programmer NASA Infrared Telescope Facility
JMEYERS@MTUS5.BITNET (10/28/90)
I have, quite successfully I should add, lengthened my path by use of a shareware program called CPATH. It is available from SIMTEL20 and allows one to add directories to a path, delete directories from the path or change the path all together. I believe that it also comes with some other programs that gives statistics about the environment size and how full/empty it is. I did have to increase my environment size by the use of the SHELL statement in my CONFIG.SYS file. I am using DOS 3.3 and I learned about the SHELL command from PC Magazine's big book on DOS (I don't remember the exact title but I refer to it as my BIG DOS book.) There have been a lot of things changed in the subtle ways that the SHELL command works in the past few versions of DOS. So be sure to check out the specifics of your DOS version before expanding the environment size with SHELL. Sincerely, Jason P. Meyers JMEYERS@MTUS5.BITNET
andy@mks.com (Andy Toy) (10/31/90)
In article <90300.181218JMEYERS@MTUS5.BITNET> JMEYERS@MTUS5.BITNET writes: >There have been a lot of things changed in the subtle ways that the >SHELL command works in the past few versions of DOS. So be sure to >check out the specifics of your DOS version before expanding the >environment size with SHELL. There is only one thing that I can think of that changed with the `SHELL=' statement in the config.sys for different versions of DOS. Older versions of DOS allowed the pathname to the shell to be specified using `/' or `\' delimiters wheres recent versions only allow `\'. You must be referring to the options of command.com for different versions of DOS. -- Andy Toy, Mortice Kern Systems Inc., Internet: andy@mks.com 35 King Street North, Waterloo, UUCP: uunet!watmath!mks!andy Ontario, CANADA N2J 2W9 Phone: 519-884-2251 FAX: 519-884-8861
jpl1@ra.MsState.Edu (Gamma-Ray) (11/01/90)
I will have to try omitting my shell statement. Hoever, i change my environment thru 4dos. If you haven't tried it it is an interesting change from straight command.com. Nice aliases, cmdline editing, extra dos cmds such as move (i.e. copy and del in one move), online help for all 4dos and dos cmds. WHILE i'm giving my few tips; you must try the print cacher PCACHE 2.2. It is absolutely the best. NO conflicts. And I also love the new norton 5.0 disk cacher NCACHE-F. It is incredible. If you write a large file to a 1.2 meg floppy, it returns the C> prompt immediately and keeps writing to the floppy in the background. If you then give a read floppy cmd while it is writing to the floppy, it suspends the write, dooes the read, and resumes the write later. neat.