[comp.os.msdos.misc] The 33 MByte limit

carl@p4tustin.UUCP (Carl W. Bergerson) (05/02/91)

garygm@leland.Stanford.EDU (Gary Brainin) writes:
> 
>    I have a no-name ("IPC") 386 which currently has DOS 3.3 on it.
> Feeling constrained by the 35MB limit on my hard drive . . .

Why do you feel constrained by the 33 MByte limit? Do you have any one file
that is greater than 33 MBytes? If not, then you ought to use DOS 3.30
to partition your disk into smaller chunks. Why? For efficiency.

Let me explain a little. When you access a file, DOS looks at the directory
entry and the FAT. The FAT is stored on the first cylinder of the partition
and the directory entry and the file itself are stored SOMEWHERE.

Now, if you partition your disk into two equal sized partitions and if
you spread your applications and files equally between the partitions,
the distance from the FAT to SOMEWHERE will be about 1/2 what it would be
if you had one humungous partition.

Looking at it slightly differently, if you have a disk with a track to track
access of 4 ms and an average access of 28 ms, partitioning it into
2 halves would change the effective average access to 16 ms ((28-4)/2)+4 ms.

Of course to achieve some substantial portion of this theoretical
improvement you need to give some thought as to which partition
you place individual applications and files. For example, I make sure
my C compiler, libraries, include files, sources, and the tmp directory
are all on the same partition, but if I have two physical disks I move
the tmp to the second disk. I don't worry about where my editor is,
because it is only read from the disk when I start a session and it is
never referenced (from disk) again (unless it's some gigantic
program with overlays, but I wouldn't use an editor like that for programming).

BTW, using the various performance testing programs, such as Norton or
Coretest usually will not show a performance improvement because they
seem to access the physical information DOS has about the disk not
the logical information stored in the partition table.

flame off

really big FLAME ON

type file | more

- but that's another story

really big FLAME OFF

Carl
-- 
Carl Bergerson                                           uunet!p4tustin!carl  
Point 4 Data Corporation                                     carl@point4.com
15442 Del Amo Avenue                                   Voice: (714) 259 0777
Tustin, CA 92680-6445                                    Fax: (714) 259 0921

john@jwt.UUCP (John Temples) (05/05/91)

In article <3367@p4tustin.UUCP> carl@p4tustin.UUCP (Carl W. Bergerson) writes:
>Now, if you partition your disk into two equal sized partitions and if
>you spread your applications and files equally between the partitions,
>the distance from the FAT to SOMEWHERE will be about 1/2 what it would be
>if you had one humungous partition.

>Of course to achieve some substantial portion of this theoretical
>improvement you need to give some thought as to which partition
>you place individual applications and files.

I think that last point should be emphasized.  If your file accesses
are randomly distrubuted across the two partitions, you'll end up
spending more time seeking, not less.  You need to organize things so
that the file accesses in a given session are mostly from one partition
or the other.  Otherwise, you waste time seeking across the empty space
between the two partitions.

I'm not sure that I could break my files up into two logical "chunks,"
of which I'd only likely to be using one or the other.
-- 
John W. Temples -- john@jwt.UUCP (uunet!jwt!john)

tporczyk@na.excelan.com (Tony Porczyk) (05/08/91)

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References: <1991Apr20.061909.24406@leland.Stanford.EDU> <3367@p4tustin.UUCP>
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Date: Sat, 4 May 1991 18:14:11 GMT

In article <3367@p4tustin.UUCP> carl@p4tustin.UUCP (Carl W. Bergerson) writes:
>garygm@leland.Stanford.EDU (Gary Brainin) writes:
>> 
>>    I have a no-name ("IPC") 386 which currently has DOS 3.3 on it.
>> Feeling constrained by the 35MB limit on my hard drive . . .
>
>Why do you feel constrained by the 33 MByte limit? Do you have any one file
>that is greater than 33 MBytes? If not, then you ought to use DOS 3.30
>to partition your disk into smaller chunks. Why? For efficiency.

Since the original poster indicated he has a 386, there is a 100 to 1
possibility that he has some extended memory and has a disk cache
installed. At this point your highly theoretical calculations about
micro-seconds saved in head movement with 33 Mb partitions are totally
irrelevant. Having a 100 or 200 Mb drive with 9 partitions on it is
about as efficient as having all your teeth pulled so you will never
get a toothache. 33 Mb partition sucks, plain and simple. My advice
is, if you can wait for DOS 5.0, do so, if not, go with 4.01 and then
upgrade with 5.0 (I hear you will be able to "upgrade" without the
need to reformat).
Good luck,

Tony

sigma@obee.ipl.rpi.edu (Kevin Martin) (05/09/91)

tporczyk@na.excelan.com (Tony Porczyk) writes:
>Since the original poster indicated he has a 386, there is a 100 to 1
>possibility that he has some extended memory and has a disk cache
>installed. At this point your highly theoretical calculations about
>micro-seconds saved in head movement with 33 Mb partitions are totally
>irrelevant. Having a 100 or 200 Mb drive with 9 partitions on it is
>about as efficient as having all your teeth pulled so you will never
>get a toothache. 33 Mb partition sucks, plain and simple. My advice
>is, if you can wait for DOS 5.0, do so, if not, go with 4.01 and then
>upgrade with 5.0 (I hear you will be able to "upgrade" without the
>need to reformat).

I don't think you fully understand the benefits of staying with DOS 3.3
until a decent MS-DOS comes out.  The 33Mb partitions are IMHO quite handy,
both for improved efficiency and organization.  I have a 3Mb EMS disk
cache, and believe me, there's a world of difference in speed between
running PicLab on C: with temporary files on I: and running it on C: with
temporary files on C:.  It follows logically that if I have a large
partition where my data and programs might be widely separated (even though
not fragmented), I'll suffer in performance.

I have dozens and dozens of packages installed on my machine (a big reason
for having a big drive).  I obviously can't put everything I might use into
my path.  But I can run programs from one partition while staying in the
current directory of another partition like so:

E:\TMP> c:pl286

And that's a fair bit easier than 'c:\graphics\piclab\pl286' I'd say.

Staying with DOS 3.3 also renders me virtually immune to a host of glitches
introduced with DOS 4.x, such as the mouse problem and the extended memory
"support."  I also have nearly 600K free with little effort.  I know of at
least one program which will NOT run on a stripped machine under DOS 4.x.

I also don't have to pay to upgrade, not until DOS 5.0, and even when that
comes out, it'll have to prove itself after the 4.x fiasco.

Newer (not necessarily) == better.
-- 
Kevin Martin
sigma@ipl.rpi.edu
"Can I kiss one of the bridesmaids instead?"

leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) (05/17/91)

Pick up a copy of Compaq MS-DOS 3.31 (or any other 3.31). It supports large
partitions. And Utilities support it. If it doesn't do it the same as
4.x it is apparently at least compatible.

In any case, I'm running a 40 meg drive with one partition at home (the
boot drive is a 40 meg with two partitions, but only because most XT 
controllers can't boot from a BIGDOS partition).

At work, we set have numerous machines with 40, 80, even 120 meg partitions.
And we haven't had any trouble with software not liking them. Not even
things like Norton uitlities, various disk optimizers, etc.

So we have 3.3x *and* we have large partitions.
-- 
Leonard Erickson			leonard@qiclab.uucp
personal:	CIS: [70465,203]	70465.203@compuserve.com
business:	CIS: [76376,1107]	76376.1107@compuserve.com