dma@athena.mit.edu (Donny (Chung) Ma) (06/02/91)
WARNING I would like to warn Windows 3.0 and MAC users who are looking for accounting software to be wary of any dealings with Absolute Solutions, Inc. (ASI), located in Oceanside, California. ASI makes accounting software based on the Microsoft Excel spreadsheet. I filed suit against ASI for dishonest practice. On April 4 1991, a judgment was made, for me, and against ASI. The dishoest practice they were charged with was: to make written and spoken money-back guarantees and not honor them. In my case, an ASI salesperson assured me that I could use his company's "Computerized Classical Accounting" product (without a time limitation) and return it, if I'm not satisfied, for a full refund. After using their product for three weeks, I decided to not keep it and wanted to return it. ASI refused to accept the return and refused to issue me a refund. Even after the judgment against them, they do not want to reconcile the situation. For reference, the court case is Cambridge, Massachusetts District Court docket# S.C. 573/91. ASI and its president, Richard Shaw may be held in contempt of court (a hearing for this is scheduled for June 20). Please forward this information to other Accountants or other business professionals looking for or dealing with accounting software, as it would serve them well to be aware of this situation. I would also like to ask any knowledgeable people on this network for advice on how I might be able to force/persuade ASI to make good on their guarantee to me. Some advice I've received and am considering: (1) Transfer my Small Claims suit to the San Diego, CA court that would have jurisdiction over Oceanside, in order to get a judgment there and be able to directly execute a collection order out there. (2) Continue to refuse to pay my AMEX bill (the product was purchased on AMEX back in October 1990 -- I have disputed this charge with AMEX, but they don't seem willing to act on my behalf and force ASI to reverse the charge). Further, an attorney advised me that I have protection under the Massachusetts Consumer Protection Act, in that it would be "unfair" for AMEX to continue to bill me when they know full well that ASI has acted dishonestly and it is therefore not my responsibility to pay a charge from ASI. (3) Hire a Private Investigator or Collection Agency or lawyer to go after ASI's assets and forcefully obtain the funds, using my Court Judgment as authority. My consideration is that (1) is possible, but most probably require me to appear in court in California, making the costs overwhelm the possible gain. (2) seems feasible for now, and is my best hope, but is risky, since AMEX may decide to use legal means to force me to pay the bill. (3) is another case of costs outweighing the possible gain, and the odds of it working are uncertain. Are there any other approaches I may consider? Does anyone know about what Federal laws may apply in situation (2) that would protect me as a consumer? I wish I had purchased it on my Bank One Visa Card, because their customer service is excellent, and there were two other times in the past where they acted on my behalf to force charge reversals from fraudulent, or otherwise "bad" charges. Thanks for any information/suggestions you may have!
userAKDU@mts.ucs.UAlberta.CA (Al Dunbar) (06/03/91)
In article <1991Jun1.234549.16574@athena.mit.edu>, dma@athena.mit.edu (Donny (Chung) Ma) writes: > > WARNING > >I would like to warn Windows 3.0 and MAC users who are looking for >accounting software to be wary of any dealings with Absolute Solutions, >Inc. (ASI), located in Oceanside, California. ASI makes >accounting software based on the Microsoft Excel spreadsheet. > >I filed suit against ASI for dishonest practice. On April 4 1991, a >judgment was made, for me, and against ASI. The dishoest practice they >were charged with was: to make written and spoken money-back guarantees >and not honor them. In my case, an ASI salesperson assured me that I >could use his company's "Computerized Classical Accounting" product >(without a time limitation) and return it, if I'm not satisfied, for a >full refund. After using their product for three weeks, I decided to >not keep it and wanted to return it. ASI refused to accept the return >and refused to issue me a refund. Even after the judgment against them, >they do not want to reconcile the situation. Sheesh! How long can they stay in business with this attitude? How much did the package cost? Must have been a bundle for it to be worth more to them than good will. -------------------+------------------------------------------- Al Dunbar | Edmonton, Alberta | Disclaimer: "not much better than CANADA | datclaimer" -------------------+-------------------------------------------
bb16@prism.gatech.EDU (Scott Bostater) (06/03/91)
In article <1991Jun1.234549.16574@athena.mit.edu> dma@athena.mit.edu (Donny (Chung) Ma) writes: [Warnings about ASI deleted] >I would also like to ask any knowledgeable people on this network >for advice on how I might be able to force/persuade ASI to make good >on their guarantee to me. Some advice I've received and am considering: > [items 1 and 3 deleted] >(2) Continue to refuse to pay my AMEX bill (the product was purchased on >AMEX back in October 1990 -- I have disputed this charge with AMEX, but >they don't seem willing to act on my behalf and force ASI to reverse the >charge). Further, an attorney advised me that I have protection under >the Massachusetts Consumer Protection Act, in that it would be "unfair" >for AMEX to continue to bill me when they know full well that ASI has >acted dishonestly and it is therefore not my responsibility to pay >a charge from ASI. > I have no experience with AMEX (other than refusing to use their cards), but I know Visa and Mastercard (well, C&S, First Chicago, Citibank, etc. versions of them) are good about helping out in these situations. I thought that AMEX's ads claimed consumer protection as a "membership priviledge", but then again I don't pay a whole lot of attention to their ads either. As a personal data point, my grandfather got a $1,000 Eastern Airlines ticket refunded by C&S MasterCard back when Eastern was restructuring. Eastern claimed they'd give the money back after 6 - 12 months. I have no idea how much money C&S lost (if any) helping out people with Eastern tickets. If you're a good or probably even a half-decent customer of AMEX, I'd suggest threatening to stop using their cards. With 4% to 5% of your bill going into their pockets, they *should* be trying to keep you happy. If they still don't give you any satisfaction, make good on your threat. DISCLAIMER: My wife *worked* for C&S. I used to have credit cards with First Chicago, C&S, and Citibank. I don't currently have a card with any of those banks. I have no idea what the difference between MasterCard and Visa is. It is not my intent to recommend any paticular card over another. The state department will claim no knowledge of my activities. -- Scott Bostater Georgia Tech Research Institute - Radar Systems Analysis "My soul finds rest in God alone; my salvation comes from Him" -Ps 62.1 uucp: ...!{allegra,amd,hplabs,ut-ngp}!gatech!prism!bb16 Internet: bb16@prism.gatech.edu
ian@rathe.cs.umn.edu (Ian Hogg) (06/04/91)
In article <1991Jun1.234549.16574@athena.mit.edu> dma@athena.mit.edu (Donny (Chung) Ma) writes: > >I would also like to ask any knowledgeable people on this network >for advice on how I might be able to force/persuade ASI to make good >on their guarantee to me. Some advice I've received and am considering: > >(1) Transfer my Small Claims suit to the San Diego, CA court that would >have jurisdiction over Oceanside, in order to get a judgment there and >be able to directly execute a collection order out there. > >(2) Continue to refuse to pay my AMEX bill (the product was purchased on >AMEX back in October 1990 -- I have disputed this charge with AMEX, but >they don't seem willing to act on my behalf and force ASI to reverse the >charge). Further, an attorney advised me that I have protection under >the Massachusetts Consumer Protection Act, in that it would be "unfair" >for AMEX to continue to bill me when they know full well that ASI has >acted dishonestly and it is therefore not my responsibility to pay >a charge from ASI. > >(3) Hire a Private Investigator or Collection Agency or lawyer to go >after ASI's assets and forcefully obtain the funds, using my Court >Judgment as authority. > > I would pusue #2 first. My friend had a situation where his girlfriend got pressured into buying a new car. After she got home, they talked it over and decided she shouldn't keep it. (No loan had been apporved yet). The next morning they brought it back. They dealership told them that they couldn't refund the full amount, they would have to keep $600 which could be applied to the purchase of another car. My friend unwillingly allowed them to charge $600 on his AMEX. He called the MN Attorney Generals office who said that was bogus. Then he called AMEX to have the charge reversed. THe person he spoke to at AMEX reversed the charge and said not to worry if the dealer tries to not accept the reversal. He said - "I'm sure we (AMEX) have alot more lawyers than they do." I would call up AMEX and also mail them a copy of the judgement. -- Ian Hogg email: rathe!ian@cs.umn.edu ...!umn-cs!rathe!ian Rathe, Inc ianhogg@cs.umn.edu 366 Jackson Street phone: (612) 225-1401
phil@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Phil Howard KA9WGN) (06/04/91)
dma@athena.mit.edu (Donny (Chung) Ma) writes: >I would like to warn Windows 3.0 and MAC users who are looking for >accounting software to be wary of any dealings with Absolute Solutions, >Inc. (ASI), located in Oceanside, California. ASI makes >accounting software based on the Microsoft Excel spreadsheet. Do they have an 800 number? >(1) Transfer my Small Claims suit to the San Diego, CA court that would >have jurisdiction over Oceanside, in order to get a judgment there and >be able to directly execute a collection order out there. I doubt that would help much anyway. >(2) Continue to refuse to pay my AMEX bill (the product was purchased on >AMEX back in October 1990 -- I have disputed this charge with AMEX, but >they don't seem willing to act on my behalf and force ASI to reverse the >charge). Further, an attorney advised me that I have protection under >the Massachusetts Consumer Protection Act, in that it would be "unfair" >for AMEX to continue to bill me when they know full well that ASI has >acted dishonestly and it is therefore not my responsibility to pay >a charge from ASI. One of the sticky things here is that you are not entitled to get TWO refunds of your purchase. If AMEX reverses the charges, then you have negated the transation with ASI and the force of your judgement may be weakened, certainly by the amount reversed. >(3) Hire a Private Investigator or Collection Agency or lawyer to go >after ASI's assets and forcefully obtain the funds, using my Court >Judgment as authority. See what comes of the contempt process first. >My consideration is that (1) is possible, but most probably require me >to appear in court in California, making the costs overwhelm the >possible gain. (2) seems feasible for now, and is my best hope, but >is risky, since AMEX may decide to use legal means to force me to >pay the bill. (3) is another case of costs outweighing the possible >gain, and the odds of it working are uncertain. Proceed through the courts as much as you can so that you will be able to collect whatever costs you legally are entitled to collect. >Are there any other approaches I may consider? Does anyone know >about what Federal laws may apply in situation (2) that would protect >me as a consumer? I wish I had purchased it on my Bank One >Visa Card, because their customer service is excellent, and there >were two other times in the past where they acted on my behalf to >force charge reversals from fraudulent, or otherwise "bad" charges. You might write to AMEX, on letterhead, indicating that their actions will not look very good to the thousands of Usenet readers who hold professional positions throughout the country. But I would also make the point that it is too late to reverse the charges via AMEX now due to the court judgement. What you should get from AMEX is a letter from the chairman, apologizing for procedural errors and promising that it will never happen again. Anything less certainly must reflect poorly on AMEX. >Thanks for any information/suggestions you may have! I'd suggest also posting your original message in misc.legal newsgroup. -- /***************************************************************************\ / Phil Howard -- KA9WGN -- phil@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu | Guns don't aim guns at \ \ Lietuva laisva -- Brivu Latviju -- Eesti vabaks | people; CRIMINALS do!! / \***************************************************************************/