deen@remus.rutgers.edu (Cinnamon Raisin) (07/26/90)
Thanks to everyone who replied to my posting concerning building
my own box from scratch. A few people asked that I send them any
information I received, so I thought I'd post a summary.
From: ms33@prism.gatech.edu (Mike Sullivan, a.k.a. Sully)
On a 286/386 one of the better bios's are the AMI, followed by the
phenix (personal opinion only). I don't know what to stay away from,
I just head towards one of those two.
On an 286/386, you use a generic controller. On an XT, you use
a specific controller designed for the particular drive and an XT.
Hence if you go with the XT, you throw away the controller when
you upgrade.
386 software is really starting to come in. But 286 software has
been around for awhile and is still respectable. Even with
upgrading, you'll conserve more more parts by going for a 286. Plus
you'll be able to run more things immediately. There is also speed.
286-12 is approx 5.7 times faster than a 8088-10 ( 8088 at 4.77 MHz
runs at the same speed of an imaginary 286 at 1 MHz).
Most applications are ~5Meg apiece (the better ones). I have a 30 Meg
partition just for games, although most games fit in less than 1 Meg.
Realize that the first upgrade you'll need to make is a harddrive, and
the Meg/$ ratio is better the larger the drive. For the cost of a
20Meg and then a 40Meg, you could get a faster 80Meg and pocket $150.
From: mark@ccvr1.cc.ncsu.edu (Mark Boyd)
I have several systems, but the one I like best currently is based on
a 12 MHz 286 motherboard. Usually you see it listed in adds as a VLSI
motherboard. It has an AMI bios, is expandable to 4 megs, takes a variety
of DIP memory chips, and works very nicely. I paid $140 for it at at a
hamfest, and I've seen it advertized for anywher from $155 to $200.
[ Hard Drives ]
I personally like 1:1 interleave RLL - 800K / sec tranfer rates and
very good price/performance. I use a DTC 1:1 RLL/ floppy controller.
I've seen it as low as $120. It flies, even with a slow drive.
HD controllers are different for XT's and AT's, therefore you would
have to toss the XT controller when you upgraded. You are better off
starting with an AT clone. The price difference is maybe $50. The
performance difference is at least a factor of 5.
From: RICHARD KERSHENBAUM <RICHARD@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu>
I was thinking about doing the same thing earlier this year. But when I
checked Computer Shopper, I found that I could buy a fully assembled and tested
system for less money than the individual parts. I bought a 286/10mhz with
keyboard, 360k floppy, 200w power supply, and 1mb memory for $465 from Fantasy
Marketing. Add a hard disk and controller, and you're not much over your $700
limit. They also have 386 and 386/SX systems for a little more.
For that price, they're obviously not using the most expensive heavy-duty
components, but the system did come with a one-year warranty. So far, I'm
happy with mine.
From: Dick Dunn <rcd@ico.isc.com>
There's nothing wrong with IDE drives. IDE is an interface type, not a
brand. It's the best way to get a fast cheap drive. Conner Peripherals is
regarded as one of the best.
From: postmaster@ocf.berkeley.edu
What drive to stay away from? Seagate. I recommend Toshiba MK134, with price
down to about $330 now (have two of those in my system). You should get 286
or 386SX. I know you are on a tight budget, but getting XT is like throwing
money away. Also, the VGA card looks like a 16-bit one.
From: "Ronald L. Singleton" <rsingle@wash.bbn.com>
I'm not gonna answer any of your questions, but make a suggestion instead.
You are in an area hwere they MUST have those "Computer Hardware And
Software" shows on a regular basis. I suggest you take a $3.00 risk and visit
one. I bought my 286/EGA/40mb (with lots of software installed) at one of
these for $1695, when similar units were selling for over $2300.
Surely you can get an upgradable XT in the neighborhood of $700 these days.
Systems similar to mine were going at about a thousand, last show I went to
back in February. I always try to attend these things, because there are
always freeware/shareware vendors there - literally thousands of programs at 1
to 3 dollars per disk. I got, for example, the famous "Mean Eighteen" golf
game plus about twenty-five courses for less than thirty dollars. PC-Roue for
a buck!! Printmaster look-alike for two dollars. You can get recreational and
'working' software without the hassle of bbs services or searching for them.
Even if you don't buy a complete system there's bound to be some software
there that you can't resist. "Mama" knows I'm going to come back with a couple
of dozen disks every time I go ... and will be locked in the "computer room"
for the next two days. 8v)
You can also get just about the best prices on a piecemeal system, if
you're positive you want to go that route. Prices are, in my experience, quite
a bit less than at any distributor.
I bought the modem I'm using tonight, a 2400 baud internal, for less than
eighty dollars when the going price was about $119. And everything comes with
warranty ... My video board went -bye-bye- in six months, and was replaced for
free. While they had my computer in, someone ran Norton on it and cleaned up
everything too.
Well, that's about enough. Suffice it to say, I highly recommend you visit
one of these shows in your area before you start laying out money.
From: kmcvay@oneb (Ken McVay)
Make sure you use an AT case or tower - the standard XT case isn't high
enough to satisfy the height requirment of all 16-bit cards.
> 2) What Hard Drives should I stay away from?
This is pretty subjective - I don't like IDE's (I am a consultant and build
custom systems for WAN's) but have installed lots, and have no complaints
about their performance. Given my druthers, however, the conservative in me
prefers high quality Japanese RLL drives and cached RLL controllers (Adaptec
237X, WD6SR2, etc) - my favorite is the Mitsubishi M535, but NEC and others
from Japan demonstrate consistant high quality.
> 3) Can an XT motherboard handle a 250 watt power
Sure - no problem there, and towers will usually include a 200+ watt p/s
BTW - a plug for dealers/consultants - find a dealer who comes _well_
recommended, and stick with him - it will cost a bit more, but in the long
run you'll be glad he's there to provide technical expertise and support.
From: BUMY@vax5.cit.cornell.edu
In reply to your post about building a machine. If you want to upgrade later
start with a 286 motherboard. There is a size difference between the the
XT and 286 boards not to mention the shape of the power supply which fits
in the box which also is a different size. The XT box is shorter in addition
to being narrower. This means that some full height AT cards will bump the top
of the box, if you then put a monitor on the box the card is driven through
the motherboard unless the box has a really stiff top. There are 386
motherboards which will fit an XT box. I've been looking at upgrading
my XT kit but I think I'll sell it as used and start over. I'll have to
get a new controller for the HD even if I keep it (there is a kludge way
to make it work but I'd rather not bother). Also, none of the memory
is fast enough to transfer. In short - start with an AT kit if you want
to upgrade later.
Hard drives. I've worked with about 20 in the department and
have had problems only with a 5 yr old Miniscribe that isn't made any
longer. The ST252-1s have been reliable but the ST 296N provides double
the capacity for about the same price (check the cost this is only what
I remember from a yr ago) and comes with its own controller. I think the
296 is a 251 reformatted with double sector density for SCSI. (the 252 a
couple of lines up should read 251). I think that if you stick with a
major brand of hard drive for PCs you'll be OK. Many of the problems
have been taken care of in last few years. If you buy an old design, such
as the 4096 you get the old standards; slow access and low data density.
Call Seagate and request their product bulletin, it lists all the hard
drives and specs. Other companies should have the same.
Kits. If you want to be sure of getting a functional machine when
done and at minimal cost, you might try Jameco or JDR Microdevices. They
both offer kits at cut rate and you supply the labor. I have one and have
been happy with it. Took about 2 hr to assemble and that was because I spent
an hour reading of that reading the lit before I touched the hardware. If
you get a mix an match there are far more areas for trouble ie the ROM bios
must match the chip set the motherboard was designed around. Trying to
improve performance by changing ROMs in AT machines can get you more
problems that you started with.
Power supply. Yes, go ahead and get the max size available and
keep it when you upgrade. Just be sure the form factor matches the box.
AT style for AT box. These parts are not getting cheaper like the
motherboards so waiting gains you nothing in price advantage.
...LATER THAN NOW...
-Z Raisin
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"May The Prezent Tenz Be With You."
-The Super Amazin Cinnamon Raisin
deen@topaz.rutgers.edu