[net.followup] weird

goutal (04/12/83)

It suddenly occurs to me why all these "exceptions" exist --
When I was taught the rule as a kid, it *included* a specification
of exceptions, to wit:
	'I' before 'E'
	except after 'C'
	and when sounded as 'A'
	as in "neighbor" and "weigh"
I suspect that not too long ago, most of the exceptions mentioned recently
were indeed pronounced as "a" or something similar.
With the advent of mass media, I think our pronunciations have been
normalizing a *lot* in the last, say, fifty years.
But what about "weird", you say;  surely that wasn't pronounced "wared"
or like "layered"?  Au contraire, I believe it was.  I can't remember
where I saw it, but I seem to remember having seen an antique spelling,
viz "weyrd", which certainly looks like it ought to rhyme with "layered",
sort of.  Of course, perhaps I saw it in the novel, and perhaps the
author had long wondered about how "weird" came to be the exception to
such great rule, and invented an etymology.  Perhaps the net.nlang folks
can help us?
-- Kenn (decvax!goutal)
P.S.	Yes, I know, it doesn't explain "financier".  Oh well.

johnc (04/14/83)

#R:decvax:-46100:tekcad:8200002:000:150
tekcad!johnc    Apr 13 20:36:00 1983



The society of efficient, omniscient, proficient, conscientious concierges
finds the ancient bioscience of glaciers deficient in scientific specie.

johnc (04/14/83)

#R:decvax:-46100:tekcad:8200003:000:161
tekcad!johnc    Apr 13 20:41:00 1983

A few fgreps through /usr/dict/words reveals some interesting statistics.
For example, only 13 of the 208 words containing 'ei' have the 'ei' preceded
by a 'c'.

sarah (04/14/83)

cFb^*c

A quote from Scientific American:

  "Consider the traditional spelling rule, 'i before e except after c,
  or when sounding as a, as in neighbor and weigh.' The rule is broken
  twice by 'ancient science'. Then along came Albert Einstein, who broke
  so many basic laws of ancient science. His last name also violates the
  rule twice."

                                       --sarah

larue (04/15/83)

           
	    Einstein is NOT an exception to the "i before e" rule.
	    The rule is only applicable to English words, and Einstein
	    is cleary not in that category. The German rule is that
	    "ei" is pronounced "i", and "ie" is pronounced "e".

	    So let's keep our exceptions limited to ENGLISH words. 

ray (04/19/83)

So Scientific American quotes 'ancient' & 'science' as exception words
of the spelling rule. Never regarded them as falling into this category
myself, because the 'i' and the 'e' form two different syllables in these
words!

FtG (04/20/83)

"ancient" has a syllable break between the i and the e? Boy, you must
get a lot of laughs when you talk about history.
For the record, my dictionary (Chamber's Etymological English Dist.)
gives the the pronunciation as an-shent (minus vowel marks).
				"Look before you leap"
				FtG