stretch@EMUNIX.EMICH.EDU (Brian Stretch) (08/12/90)
Welp, after 1-1/2 months digging, I have finally figured out the problems
with my pre-production Intel 386 motherboard and Intel's policies towards it.
It seems that the early 80386 chips (B-Step?) had a serious bug.. which,
amoung other things, prevented the use of the 386 Protected mode. Basically,
this bug makes it impossible to run 386-specific software. Intel had a
policy in place to replace those chips--free--for three years. All you had
to do is know about it. Many (most?) dealers ignored the problems, tho, as
there wasn't any/much 386-specific software at the time, and didn't bother
upgrading their stocks. Now that 386-specific software is popular, these
B-Step chips are popping up all over the place--alas, over a year after the
upgrade policy expired. One third-party company does have a hardware fix--
for $150--but for that price, I'd just assume ditch the motherboard and
replace it with a new 20Mhz 386SX.
What lessons have been learned here?
o. If you beg, plead, nag, and kiss ass long enough, you can get good info
out of Intel. But it'll be too late to do you any good.
o. Intel, as a company, is a disorganized mess.
o. Pre-production boards can be a royal pain.. altho my problem is present
in several thousand full production chips.
o. It's no wonder why several major PC software developers are happy as
hell to be supporting a certain new non-Intel-based multitasking,
multiuser machine that'll be hitting the markets in the next few months.
(Stay tuned on that one, folks..)
(Okay, more reasons than the above for that, but..)davidsen@crdgw1.crd.ge.com (William E. Davidsen Jr) (08/14/90)
In article <9008112237.AA08032@emunix.emich.edu> stretch@EMUNIX.EMICH.EDU (Brian Stretch) writes: | What lessons have been learned here? | | o. If you beg, plead, nag, and kiss ass long enough, you can get good info | out of Intel. But it'll be too late to do you any good. This information appeared in virtually all of the magazines, newspapers, and newsletters which cover the PC world. I believe it was on TV on the _Computer Chronicles_. My point is that the information was widely available, and perhaps you should be going back to your vendor rather than Intel. They kept the offer open for three years, and I personally thinks that's pretty good support. I assume that you got the system used or you would have done the upgrade while all the publicity was out. Perhaps the person who sold it to you will halp cover the cost. | | o. Intel, as a company, is a disorganized mess. I deal with many companies in the Fortune 500, and I believe that 60-70% of them are either disorganized or over-organized. I have had some good and bad experiences with Intel, and honestly more good than bad. | | o. Pre-production boards can be a royal pain.. altho my problem is present | in several thousand full production chips. Both stements totally true. That's why it's the bleeding edge. You should anticipate some problems with early versions of hardware and software. | | o. It's no wonder why several major PC software developers are happy as | hell to be supporting a certain new non-Intel-based multitasking, | multiuser machine that'll be hitting the markets in the next few months. There are new machines hitting the street every day. They are not useful without software. Software support means either PC compatible or it runs UNIX (it is possible to write a UNIX clone which really runs the software, but I haven't seen it). I support a lot of software on multiple platforms, and the thought of a new platform to support certainly doesn't give me joy-feels. Or anyone else I know who is in a similar situation. A really new machine doesn't generate revenue for some time until it gets accepted, but it generates expenses as soon as you start deciding if you should support it or not. I would regard the problem with the CPU the same way I do any other bad chip. If it went bad you would replace it, and it sounds as if this chip has been giving satisfactory service for four years. While I would like to have everything run forever, I can regard a design flaw in the same light as a total failure. If you can't afford maintenence you can't afford a computer. I think a replacement for $150 is a pretty good deal, myself. -- - bill davidsen (davidsen@crdgw1.crd.ge.com) GE Corp. R&D Center; Box 8, KW-C206; Schenectady NY 12345
stretch@EMUNIX.EMICH.EDU (Brian Stretch) (08/17/90)
Bill Davidsen,
What you said is, I am sure, quite true.. however, I didn't get "into"
Intel-based PCs until a few months ago (last May). For the past 7 years I
have been using/programming Motorola-based machines only.. several Tandy
Color Computers (great 8-bit machines, despite Tandy) and a Commodore Amiga.
Since up until I got my 386 I didn't read PC mags, I had no way of knowing
about the chip upgrade.. and I got screwed.
My main complaint with Intel is that it took me nearly TWO MONTHS to get the
right info out of them. That is completely unacceptable. Yes, I did get
the 386 system used.. I traded my 3 megabyte Amiga 500 system for it. If I
could have had my questions answered quickly, I would have gotten my old
Amiga back. (If the bad 386's are old news, why didn't Intel tell me RIGHT
AWAY?!)
At least the 2 meg card that came with the motherboard is good.. selling that
will subsidize a new 386SX. Once I drop the new board in, that system is
outta here. My next machine will be non-Intel architecture, and I can
gurantee that after I get my CompSci degree (currently an Honors student at
Eastern Michigan), the company I work for, or the company I found, will
never willfully use Intel machines.
---Brian Stretch (stretch@emunix.emich.edu)jgarland@kean.ucs.mun.ca (08/17/90)
In article <9008161712.AA10568@emunix.emich.edu>, stretch@EMUNIX.EMICH.EDU (Brian Stretch) writes: > Bill Davidsen, > {long harangue, deleted} >...gurantee that after I get my CompSci degree (currently an Honors student at > Eastern Michigan), the company I work for, or the company I found, will > never willfully use Intel machines. > ---Brian Stretch (stretch@emunix.emich.edu) Dear Brian, I see that you are a tad upset. I also see that you better pray there isn't a recession in the near future so that you will have the freedom to limit your job prospects so severely. Good luck and keep up the clear, rational thinking. John Garland Bitnet: jgarland@mun Internet: jgarland@kean.ucs.mun.ca
keithe@tekgvs.LABS.TEK.COM (Keith Ericson) (08/21/90)
In article <9008161712.AA10568@emunix.emich.edu> stretch@EMUNIX.EMICH.EDU (Brian Stretch) writes: >...My next machine will be non-Intel architecture, and I can >gurantee that after I get my CompSci degree (currently an Honors student at >Eastern Michigan), the company I work for, or the company I found, will >never willfully use Intel machines. And once again the irrestible force meets the unmoveable object :-) I guess we must simply have a _very_ good Intel sales rep: he insured that all our pre-DX parts were replaced with workable IC's. I even have one "spare" sitting here in the desk drawer in case he missd one. So not _all_ of Intel is screwed up! kEITHe
rcollins@altos86.Altos.COM (Robert Collins) (08/24/90)
In article <9008161712.AA10568@emunix.emich.edu> stretch@EMUNIX.EMICH.EDU (Brian Stretch) writes: >outta here. My next machine will be non-Intel architecture, and I can >gurantee that after I get my CompSci degree (currently an Honors student at >Eastern Michigan) That's the second time I've heard you make chattering noises about being an honor student. Big deal. > the company I work for, or the company I found, will >never willfully use Intel machines. The company you work for, or found will also willfully be out of business. -- "Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only." Mat. 4:10 Robert Collins UUCP: ...!sun!altos86!rcollins HOME: (408) 225-8002 WORK: (408) 432-6200 x4356