michal@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu (Merlin The Magician) (08/24/90)
Netlanders, Is there any way to get an 84-Key Keyboard to work with an AT Motherbaord ? Before you answer, here is the scenario: I own a True Blue XT/286 Box with True Blue 101 AT Style Keyboard. It all works well. For reasons not to obvious, I would like to get this box to work with a True Blue 84 PC (yes!) keyboard. When the system boots with the PC keyboard plugged in, an error message is displayed (System Options not set, F1 to continue) and an annoying repetative beep is heard, which cannot be made to go away. IBM local dealer says the two keyboards use a diffrent scan and you CANNOT use an XT (PC) keyboard on an AT m/b. But then the rep also flatly denied the existance of an IBM XT/286. -- Merlin [The Magician] (AKA Michal Chmielewski) US Mail: Academic Computing Services, Univ. of Kansas, Lawrence, KS 66045, USA E-mail : michal@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu, michal@ukanvax.bitnet, AT&T (913)-864-0443
winans@sirius.mcs.anl.gov (John Winans) (08/25/90)
In article <25345.26d502c6@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu>, michal@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu (Merlin The Magician) writes: |> Is there any way to get an 84-Key Keyboard to work with an AT |>Motherbaord ? Before you answer, here is the scenario: |> I own a True Blue XT/286 Box with True Blue 101 AT Style Keyboard. |>It all works well. For reasons not to obvious, I would like to |>get this box to work with a True Blue 84 PC (yes!) keyboard. |> When the system boots with the PC keyboard plugged in, an error |>message is displayed (System Options not set, F1 to continue) and |>an annoying repetative beep is heard, which cannot be made to go away. |> IBM local dealer says the two keyboards use a diffrent scan and you |>CANNOT use an XT (PC) keyboard on an AT m/b. But then the rep also |>flatly denied the existance of an IBM XT/286. A different "scan" huh?? I always thought the word was protocol. Mr. IBM local dealer is correct in that it is different, but "scan" is the term I'd expect from a car salesoid... (insert your favorite flame here) The keyboards are not interchangable. They communicate with the computer with a serial protocol a whole lot like that of the "COM" ports. Except there is a different number of bits used on them. If U want to know more about it, there is a nice discussion of how they work in one of the 1990 issues of "Circuit Cellar" (I think it was around April). I would think that if one exists, one of the Digi-key/Jameco type places (that advertise in the back of BYTE) would probably have one. ! John Winans Advanced Computing Research Facility ! ! winans@mcs.anl.gov Argonne National Laboratory, Illinois ! ! ! ! The large print giveth, and the small print taketh away -- Tom Waite !
mahoney@primerd.prime.com (08/25/90)
You dealer was almost right. XT keyboards and AT keyboards operate at different frequencies. Unless your keyboard has a switch which will allow it to operate at the appropriate frequency (some newer keyboards have this for compatability) then you are out of luck.
grege@gold.GVG.TEK.COM (Greg Ebert) (08/25/90)
In article <25345.26d502c6@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu> michal@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu (Merlin The Magician) writes: > Is there any way to get an 84-Key Keyboard to work with an AT >Motherbaord ? > > IBM local dealer says the two keyboards use a diffrent scan and you >CANNOT use an XT (PC) keyboard on an AT m/b. But then the rep also >flatly denied the existance of an IBM XT/286. > The AT and XT (PC) keyboards DO use different scan codes. At power-up, a kludgy protocol between the keyboard and an AT system tells the keyboard controller in the AT what kind of keyboard is present. My undrestanding is that an XT (PC) system cannot understand a regular AT style keyboard. Finally, to add more confusion, I think there is an auto-switch keyboard which sets itself for PC or AT operation depending upon what kind of system it's plugged into, while at the same time the system tries to figure out what kind of keyboard is present. Sounds like a chicken/egg sydrome at power-up! You CAN put a PC keyboard on an AT, and it does work. I suspect that your system does not have the same kind of keyboard controller as a typical AT system. Believe it or not, the keyboard controller is the most complicated component in an AT system, and accounts for a large number of incompatibilities. It's possible that your keyboard controller does not have the software to support both type of keyboards. I know a guy who has done oodles of keyboard controller software [hi Bob Hale!], and is frustrated by the tiny amount of ROM in the 8742. When you think about it, there's really no dire urgency to support PC keyboards on an AT anyway. - - - - - - - - - Here's a true keyboard-controller saga: The company I used to work for found a new vendor for power supplies. They didn't work. Solution: a software change in the keyboard controller. No B.S. !!
poffen@sj.ate.slb.com (Russ Poffenberger) (09/05/90)
In article <1990Aug24.194929.25595@mcs.anl.gov> winans@sirius.mcs.anl.gov (John Winans) writes: >In article <25345.26d502c6@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu>, >michal@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu (Merlin The Magician) writes: >|> Is there any way to get an 84-Key Keyboard to work with an AT >|>Motherbaord ? Before you answer, here is the scenario: >|> I own a True Blue XT/286 Box with True Blue 101 AT Style Keyboard. >|>It all works well. For reasons not to obvious, I would like to >|>get this box to work with a True Blue 84 PC (yes!) keyboard. >|> When the system boots with the PC keyboard plugged in, an error >|>message is displayed (System Options not set, F1 to continue) and >|>an annoying repetative beep is heard, which cannot be made to go away. >|> IBM local dealer says the two keyboards use a diffrent scan and you >|>CANNOT use an XT (PC) keyboard on an AT m/b. But then the rep also >|>flatly denied the existance of an IBM XT/286. > >A different "scan" huh?? I always thought the word was protocol. Mr. IBM >local dealer is correct in that it is different, but "scan" is the term I'd >expect from a car salesoid... > >(insert your favorite flame here) > >The keyboards are not interchangable. They communicate with the computer >with a serial protocol a whole lot like that of the "COM" ports. Except >there is a different number of bits used on them. If U want to know more >about it, there is a nice discussion of how they work in one of the 1990 >issues of "Circuit Cellar" (I think it was around April). > >I would think that if one exists, one of the Digi-key/Jameco type places >(that advertise in the back of BYTE) would probably have one. > You are correct in that the keyboards use a different protocol, and in many cases (True Blue IBM equipment anyway), they are not interchangeable. Some clones can accept either, some clone keyboards can run with either protocol. However, you analogy to the "com" port is a little lacking. Whereas the "com" ports are asynchronous, the keyboard uses a synchronous (separate clock signal) protocol. Russ Poffenberger DOMAIN: poffen@sj.ate.slb.com Schlumberger Technologies UUCP: {uunet,decwrl,amdahl}!sjsca4!poffen 1601 Technology Drive CIS: 72401,276 San Jose, Ca. 95110 (408)437-5254