bsc@wuphys.UUCP (Bryan Coughlan) (07/24/85)
[Rich Rosen] > >> (admittedly, "Another Lonely Night", though an incredibly wimpy > >> song, had the best McCartney melody in ten years!) > > > >Try listening to _Yesterday_ by the Beatles. Paul > >seems to have copied from himself! [BRYAN COUGHLAN] > > The only similarity I had detected between "Another Lonely Night" and > "Yesterday" is that they are both in F, and I really can't think of any > other. (let's not get carried away) Could you elaborate? Oops! I think I got that wrong! The song I was thinking about had the refrain "No more lonely nights ..." - which may be the name of the song. Oh well. They all sound alike to me :-) :-) ! > John Lennon was a big fan of musical genealogy or "history of riffs". > The first two notes of "Instant Karma" were actually lifted from a song > the Beatles used to do in clubs (apparently very hard to find on vinyl) > called "Some Other Guy"---they are shown performing it in "The Compleat > Beatles". There's nothing wrong with quoting, but when the whole idea > of a song is blatantly stolen, that's despicable. In a way, I understand > the notion of "subliminal plagiarism"---I only recently noticed that a song > I had written some years ago, though utilizing completely different > rhythm and vocal part, took its sequence of chords from the "AH... AH.. AHAH" > section of "Court of the Crimson King" (and I didn't even own the album!) > It was in a different key and used a completely different context, but > when it struck me it felt very strange to be a subliminal plagiarist. > -- > "Do I just cut 'em up like regular chickens?" Rich Rosen ihnp4!pyuxd!rlr And now ... Back to the song in question ( Oh NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO !!!! ). [The following material contains some highly opinionated spoutings by the author. -ed] You said it yourself. It isn't always BAD to quote from other songs. I say you can go even a bit further. If its in a "completely different context", why not quote or even take a sequence of chords? If that's not allowed, a large portion of modern pop and jazz music is a no-no! (B-flat blues, anyone? NO! That's plagiarism!). What IS a problem is when you can interchange the two songs ( the AHA! effect). This occurs when listening to one song and finding you can mentally play the other song along with it (AHA!). My problem with the "Susudio" - "1999" controversy is I CAN'T FIT THOSE TWO SONGS TOGETHER. There are similarities, I agree. But there are differences as well. You say the bass line is exactly the same? wow. My friend the bass player likes that, because he can learn two songs at the same time :-). You say the melody is the same? No Way. The notes are different and the rhythms are different. They are not even close! The "feel" is the same? Well, that's true of most heavy metal, bebop, technofunk ... Verse structure? Completely different. Does Phil have backup vocals like Prince? Does Prince have backup winds like Phil? Can either of them fart properly? :-) [This question submitted by musical expert Greg Mohr -ed.] The songs do sound similar. Phil may have "quoted" from "1999". It is not a "blatant ripoff" however. There is just too much difference between the two. By the way - Yes, I did change my mind between my previous posting and now. That's because over the weekend I had a chance to talk to friends (i.e. Derek, the bass player) who agree with my current viewpoint. Also I "played" both songs in my head to try to find the "blatant-ripped-off-edness" (many times). I could'nt find it (Yes, I was looking!). -- Bryan S. Coughlan ( Yes, that's right. My first ihnp4!wuphys!bsc two initials are B.S. ! )
rlr@pyuxd.UUCP (Rich Rosen) (07/25/85)
>>>> (admittedly, "Another Lonely Night", though an incredibly wimpy >>>> song, had the best McCartney melody in ten years!) >>>Try listening to _Yesterday_ by the Beatles. Paul >>>seems to have copied from himself! [BRYAN COUGHLAN] >>The only similarity I had detected between "Another Lonely Night" and >>"Yesterday" is that they are both in F, and I really can't think of any >>other. (let's not get carried away) Could you elaborate? > Oops! I think I got that wrong! The song I was > thinking about had the refrain "No more lonely nights > ..." - which may be the name of the song. Oh well. > They all sound alike to me :-) :-) ! OOPS**2! The song that I called "Another Lonely Night" WAS "No More Lonely Nights"!!! No wonder they sound alike! :-? > My problem with the "Susudio" - "1999" controversy is I CAN'T FIT > THOSE TWO SONGS TOGETHER. There are similarities, > I agree. But there are differences as well. > You say the bass line is exactly the same? wow. > My friend the bass player likes that, because > he can learn two songs at the same time :-). > You say the melody is the same? No Way. The notes > are different and the rhythms are different. They > are not even close! The "feel" is the same? Well, > that's true of most heavy metal, bebop, technofunk ... I never said anything about the bass line. The organ chords at the beginning (and throughout the verse) are exactly the same as the opening chords of 1999 - same notes, same organ timbre, same everything. He based the whole verse on a deliberate perfect copy of those opening chords to 1999. -- "Because love grows where my Rosemary goes and nobody knows but me." Rich Rosen pyuxd!rlr