wales@valeria.cs.ucla.edu (Rich Wales) (09/27/90)
Anyone who can type fast should be aware that Northgate's OmniKey line of keyboards do =not= have N-key rollover. That is, if you type fast enough that you are pressing one key before you have let go of the previous key, a Northgate keyboard will get con- fused and will send out extraneous "key press" indications. I bought a Northgate OmniKey Plus last week and encountered this prob- lem. When I called their tech support line, the person I spoke with readily admitted that none of their keyboards had N-key rollover. He said it would have required extra circuitry on each key, and they con- sidered it too expensive. Of course, Northgate has a 60-day "no questions asked" return policy -- which I am taking advantage of pronto. Given that I've seen "cheapo" clone keyboards (and own one!) that still have N-key rollover, I find it a bit hard to understand why the people at Northgate -- who pride themselves on supposedly having high-quality keyboards -- are unwilling to do the job 100%. I agree that the keys on an OmniKey Plus are well placed and have good mechanical response; but, in my opinion as an experienced touch typist, no amount of good features can make up for the lack of N-key rollover. As long as Northgate's keyboards do not have rollover support, I cannot in good conscience recommend them to anyone. I am sending Northgate's keyboard engineering people -- as well as the staff of Computer Shopper (where I saw Northgate's ad) -- a letter to that effect. -- -- Rich Wales <wales@CS.UCLA.EDU> // UCLA Computer Science Department 3531 Boelter Hall // Los Angeles, CA 90024-1596 // +1 (213) 825-5683 "We would all become unpeople, undoing unthings untogether. Fascinating."
bud@cimage.com (Bud Howard/10000) (09/27/90)
I too have a Northgate keyboard, but I have had no problem with it. When I type letters and documents I can get about 60+ WPM. This is far ahead of some Word Processors. I have not gotten any error messages regarding key presses or the like. Now, this all may be solved by the fact that I also have a Northgate Computer. The two may operate in a much better harmony together than the keyboard on another machine. Anyway, I thought that I would put my two cents in because I have been very satisfied with Northgates products. bud
toma@tekgvs.LABS.TEK.COM (Tom Almy) (09/27/90)
This posting has me baffled. *My* Northgate OmniKey/102 had N-key rollover. What it is missing is anti-aliasing. With mechanical contact keyboards, this is accomplished by adding a diode in series with each key. Many but not all keyboards handle this*. You only get the phantom keys if you press three keys at once, and then only certain combinations of three keys will do this. If the keyboard is a straight matrix encoding of the physical key positions (and the Omnikey seems to be this case) then you get the phantom key when you depress three keys such that the third key is in the same row as one of the keys and in the same column as the other. This will never happen with standard typing since each finger is assigned its own column(s). You can check to see if your keyboard has N-key rollover by pressing (but not releasing) a-s-d-f in order. The four keystrokes should be accepted, then the keyboard will start repeating the f. Without the rollover you would only get the a or a-s (with 2 key rollover). Tom Almy toma@tekgvs.labs.tek.com Standard Disclaimers Apply * I just checked a nearby Mac II, and it generates the phantom keystrokes as well.
marshall@wind55.seri.gov (Marshall L. Buhl) (09/28/90)
wales@valeria.cs.ucla.edu (Rich Wales) writes: >Anyone who can type fast should be aware that Northgate's OmniKey line >of keyboards do =not= have N-key rollover. I've never heard of N-key rollover, but... >That is, if you type fast enough that you are pressing one key before >you have let go of the previous key, a Northgate keyboard will get con- >fused and will send out extraneous "key press" indications. That explains it. This has been happening to me. I just thought it was bounce. It was driving me nuts. Many times, when typing 1990, I got 199090090 instead. Or frrfrrom instead of from. I sent it back for replacement. I'm using my Maxiswitch 84-key board now. I really LOVE the feel and response, but it doesn't have F11 and F12, which a lot of Win programs use for things like Save and other popular things. I guess I may as well tell them to keep it. It's useless like this. It takes me forever to type with it. I hated the clacky feel too. I much prefer the quieter Maxiswitch. >I bought a Northgate OmniKey Plus last week and encountered this prob- >lem. When I called their tech support line, the person I spoke with >readily admitted that none of their keyboards had N-key rollover. He >said it would have required extra circuitry on each key, and they con- >sidered it too expensive. When I called them, they gave no indication of this. Thay said I probably had a defective keyboard and should call my dealer to replace it. >Of course, Northgate has a 60-day "no questions asked" return policy -- >which I am taking advantage of pronto. I think mines running out. :-( -- Marshall L. Buhl, Jr. EMAIL: marshall@seri.gov Senior Computer Missionary VOICE: (303)231-1014 Wind Research Branch 1617 Cole Blvd., Golden, CO 80401-3393 Solar Energy Research Institute Solar - safe energy for a healthy future
rajs@hpindda.cup.hp.com (Rajeev Seth) (09/29/90)
WHat I dont like about my Omnikey 102 is the audible click which cannot be turned off. Is there a way to turn off the annoying click? If not why was it designed in as a feature.
davidsen@sixhub.UUCP (Wm E. Davidsen Jr) (09/30/90)
In article <39363@shemp.CS.UCLA.EDU> wales@valeria.cs.ucla.edu (Rich Wales) writes: | Anyone who can type fast should be aware that Northgate's OmniKey line | of keyboards do =not= have N-key rollover. I don't know what you mean by "N key rollover," but all the Northgates I have certainly have what I think of as N key rollover. I have two at home, and three at work, use two others at other sites, and they're all ages from a week after they announced the keyboard (original 102), 1st revised layout, 2nd revised layout, and Omnikey. As I sit here I press *and hold* successive keys on this early 102 "asdf" and all the keys come out. If you don't have rollover you either get only one key or "aaaa." I certainly believe that someone at Northgate might have told you they didn't have it, or might have been thinking of something else, but that's what I think of a "N key rollover" and it works. You can even press *and hold* down one key while typing others, and the original key will not repeat "aghjklkjhghjkl" (I held the 'a' key down through typing all the other keys. Finally, if you press and hold a key and type and release any other key, the original key will not repeat (no doubling) as "al" (I held the 'a' down after I typed it and for ten secs after I typed the 'l'). If it seems pedantic, I have been recommending the Northgate since it came out, even when I had to supply my own for machines I use but don't own. I would like to know if you have a bum keyboard, if Northgate has changed their ROMs, or if you mean something else by the term than I do. Incidently, I described the tests I was making, so people can try them on any given keyboard. -- bill davidsen - davidsen@sixhub.uucp (uunet!crdgw1!sixhub!davidsen) sysop *IX BBS and Public Access UNIX moderator of comp.binaries.ibm.pc and 80386 mailing list "Stupidity, like virtue, is its own reward" -me
liberato@dri.com (Jimmy Liberato) (09/30/90)
davidsen@sixhub.UUCP (Wm E. Davidsen Jr) writes: >In article <39363@shemp.CS.UCLA.EDU> wales@valeria.cs.ucla.edu (Rich Wales) writes: >| Anyone who can type fast should be aware that Northgate's OmniKey line >| of keyboards do =not= have N-key rollover. > > I don't know what you mean by "N key rollover," but all the Northgates >I have certainly have what I think of as N key rollover. I have two at >home, and three at work, use two others at other sites, and they're all >ages from a week after they announced the keyboard (original 102), 1st >revised layout, 2nd revised layout, and Omnikey. > > As I sit here I press *and hold* successive keys on this early 102 >"asdf" and all the keys come out. If you don't have rollover you either >get only one key or "aaaa." What you are describing ("asdf") _is_ N-key rollover. My new OmniKey Ultra only has 2-key rollover, however. I get "asss" until I release the "a" then I get "dddd" until I release the "s", etc. This is their newest model so they have indeed changed things. After much banging I really can't see why you need rollover to the nth degree anyway. I guess if you type at 100 wpm you might have the possibility of having three keys depressed simultaneously. I can only create such a situation artificially. I think the other features more than make up for the impact this problem will have on most people. Like mice, keyboards are a religious issue. You either hate optical or hate mechanical. You either hate mushy silence or hate the clickety-clack. All I know is when I'm on the OmniKey I'm in heaven! -- Jimmy Liberato liberato@dri.com ...uunet!drivax!liberato
davidsen@sixhub.UUCP (Wm E. Davidsen Jr) (10/01/90)
In article <B42QB3W@dri.com> liberato@dri.com (Jimmy Liberato) writes: | What you are describing ("asdf") _is_ N-key rollover. My new OmniKey Ultra | only has 2-key rollover, however. I get "asss" until I release the "a" then | I get "dddd" until I release the "s", etc. This is their newest model so | they have indeed changed things. After much banging I really can't see | why you need rollover to the nth degree anyway. I guess if you type at | 100 wpm you might have the possibility of having three keys depressed | simultaneously. I can only create such a situation artificially. I got a chance to try doing this. I found a keyboard without N-key rollover. I typed one of my passwords (insuring that no one could see it). It was messed up. I typed my login for several systems and their passwords. They *all* messed up. I am tempted to believe that for things which I type frequently, that my typing speed does reach the speed needed to cause trouble. I wonder what ever posessed them to mess up the keyboard. -- bill davidsen - davidsen@sixhub.uucp (uunet!crdgw1!sixhub!davidsen) sysop *IX BBS and Public Access UNIX moderator of comp.binaries.ibm.pc and 80386 mailing list "Stupidity, like virtue, is its own reward" -me
erik@westworld.esd.sgi.com (Erik Fortune) (10/02/90)
I went home and checked my Northgate 101 key keyboard (function keys along the top) when I read this thread. It has N-key rollover. The control key's in the right place and it has a nice clacky feel. I love it!! -- Erik