etxbjk@solsta.ericsson.se (Bjorn Karlsen TX/DKI) (10/07/90)
Hi netlanders,
I have some problems with my hard disk. Sometimes I'm unable to
access it, and I want to try to low-level format the drive.
But I can't find the command to do the low-level format. I've tried
the "standard" command in DEBUG:
g=c800:5
but that hung the machine.
The disk-drive is a Quantum ProDrive with 40 MB Capacity
This is the line in my Set-up table:
Type Cyln Head Sect W-pc L-zone Size
28 965 5 17 0 1000 40 MB
My PC is a COMMODORE PC40-III with MS-DOS 3.30
Email or post answers.
Thanks in advance for any help...
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------------------------------------------------------------------------jc58+@andrew.cmu.edu (Johnny J. Chin) (10/10/90)
The only problem I know of when you excessively format a hard drive is the
wear you place on the heads. This has caused some drives to pre-maturely
fail. But then again, the drives that have failed on were ones where the
user uses the drive a lot and low-level formatted every 3 months.
I agree that low-level formatting a drive will reclaim some bad spots and is
relatively easy to do. However, reclaiming bad spots may be bad because the
bad spot could have come about from use, thus reclaiming it will cause bad
data later during use. In general, I don't recommend low-level formatting
the drives regularly; do it only when you need to.
I do recommend the use of a track aligning utility and/or a deframenting
utility. These programs will usually do whatever is that you need (ie.
realign all the tracks, make all available sectors continuous, etc.).
In addition, if you partition the drive (1- programs, 2- data), you will
only have deframented data in the 2-partition (data).
I hope this bit of information is useful.
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Disclaimer: The views expressed herein are STRICTLY my own, and not CMU's.jc58+@andrew.cmu.edu (Johnny J. Chin) (10/10/90)
To format your Quantum 40mb drive on a 286 (or 386, or 486) machine, you
need a utility program like HDFORMAT or Ontrack's Disk Manager or Storage
Dimension's SpedStor Utility.
AT-type computers with MFM controllers DO NOT have a BIOS at location C8000h;
therefore you can NOT use DEBUG to format the hard drive. Attempts to use
DEBUG and the command "g=c800:5" will cause the computer to hang because you
will be attempting to execute non-existant code.
On 286/386/486-type computers, you must use a utility program of some sort.
In addition to the ones named above, IBM's Advanced Diagnostics also allows
you to do low-level formats. Some BIOSes have this utility built in.
I hope this information clears up why your computer was hanging.
Low-level formatting a hard drive is relatively easy if you have the right
tools for it.
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Computer Dr.
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Disclaimer: The views expressed herein are STRICTLY my own, and not CMU's.sonny@charybdis.harris-atd.com (Bob Davis) (10/10/90)
In article <wb4ixp200Uw702j1Ye@andrew.cmu.edu> jc58+@andrew.cmu.edu (Johnny J. Chin) writes: > >I agree that low-level formatting a drive will reclaim some bad spots and is >relatively easy to do. However, reclaiming bad spots may be bad because the >bad spot could have come about from use, thus reclaiming it will cause bad >data later during use. In general, I don't recommend low-level formatting >the drives regularly; do it only when you need to. Generally, the "bad spots" reclaimed by low-level formatting will be those that have "gone bad" because of head-positioning errors that have accumulated since the last low-level format. That is, with time, the heads sometimes drift slightly relative to the tracks laid down during the last low-level formatting. Low-level reformatting ensures that the new tracks are laid down under the heads' current positions, wherever they currently find themselves. Low level formatting will still lock out any marginal quality sectors. Truly bad places on the plated media won't be erroneously "rejuvenated" by the act of low-level formatting. > >I do recommend the use of a track aligning utility and/or a deframenting ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ What, please, is this? What exactly does a "track aligning utility" do? Can you please give the name of one or more such utilities? Thanks. ______________________________________________________________________________ Bob Davis, UofALA'66 \\ INTERNET : sonny@trantor.harris-atd.com | _ _ | Harris Corporation, ESS \\ UUCP : ...!uunet!x102a!trantor!sonny |_| |_| | | Advanced Technology Dept.\\ AETHER : K4VNO |==============|_/\/\/\|_| PO Box 37, MS 3A/1912 \\ VOICE : (407) 727-5886 | I SPEAK ONLY | |_| |_| | Melbourne, FL 32902 \\ FAX : (407) 729-2537 | FOR MYSELF. |_________|
mlord@bwdls58.bnr.ca (Mark Lord) (10/10/90)
In article <wb4ixp200Uw702j1Ye@andrew.cmu.edu> jc58+@andrew.cmu.edu (Johnny J. Chin) writes: >The only problem I know of when you excessively format a hard drive is the >wear you place on the heads. This has caused some drives to pre-maturely ^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^ ????? Really? I mean, it's not like the heads aren't always sitting over fast spinning platters anyway. So this cannot mean mechanical wear. So what does it mean? Inquiring minds would like to know? -- ___Mark S. Lord__________________________________________ | ..uunet!bnrgate!mlord%bmerh724 | Climb Free Or Die (NH) | | MLORD@BNR.CA Ottawa, Ontario | Personal views only. | |________________________________|________________________|
vojta@pepto-bismol.berkeley.edu (Paul Vojta) (10/11/90)
In article <3915.2711b5f6@cc.curtin.edu.au> sschnellm@cc.curtin.edu.au writes: > >If the machine is an AT, the disk will have been formatted by the >manufacturer before shipping. Regardless of machine, practically all hard disks have been formatted by the manufacturer before shipping. In article <wb4ixp200Uw702j1Ye@andrew.cmu.edu> jc58+@andrew.cmu.edu (Johnny J. Chin) writes: >The only problem I know of when you excessively format a hard drive is the >wear you place on the heads. This has caused some drives to pre-maturely >fail. But then again, the drives that have failed on were ones where the >user uses the drive a lot and low-level formatted every 3 months. WEAR on the heads? They never touch the platters, except possibly when turning the machine off. --Paul Vojta, vojta@math.berkeley.edu
jc58+@andrew.cmu.edu (Johnny J. Chin) (10/11/90)
I stand corrected ... when you do low-level formats, you place a greater deal
of wear on the actuator and the write solenoid (that was what I was told it is
called ... the thing that changes its magnetic field so that it causes a change
on the disk platters). When the drive is doing a low-level format, it is not
only doing a read and/or write (this is what I was told by Seagate).
Please, someone correct me if I'm wrong again.
__________ ___
/ \ / / /-/ / /\/
_/ / / / __/. /__ / / / / /
/ / / "Happy Computing ..."
/ / ARPAnet: Johnny.J.Chin@andrew.cmu.edu
/ ------- / 4730 Centre Ave. #412 BITnet: jc58@andrew
\__________/ Pittsburgh, PA 15213 UUCP: ...!uunet!andrew.cmu.edu!jc58
Computer Dr.
______________________________________________________________________________
Disclaimer: The views expressed herein are STRICTLY my own, and not CMU's.donm@pnet07.cts.com (Don Maslin) (10/11/90)
Please explain how doing a low level format causes 'wear' on the heads.
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INET: donm@pnet07.cts.comsonny@charybdis.harris-atd.com (Bob Davis) (10/11/90)
In article <Ub4ud8q00Uw7A7I1pF@andrew.cmu.edu> jc58+@andrew.cmu.edu (Johnny J. Chin) writes: >I stand corrected ABOUT WHAT? ... when you do low-level formats, you place a greater deal >of wear on the actuator and the write solenoid THAN WHEN? > (that was what I was told it is >called ... the thing that changes its magnetic field so that it causes a change >on the disk platters). THE WRITE HEAD? When the drive is doing a low-level format, it is not >only doing a read and/or write ...BUT IS ALSO DOING...WHAT? > (this is what I was told by Seagate). SEEMS LIKE SOMETIMES YOU GOTTA RIDE SERIOUS HERD ON FOLKS THAT JUST UP AND "TELL" YOU THINGS... > >Please, someone correct me if I'm wrong again. I'D SHORE LIKE TO OBLIGE, BUT DANGED IF I CAN *TELL*. (AND I'VE DONE TRIED PURTY HARD TO FIGGER IT OUT). ______________________________________________________________________________ Bob Davis, UofALA'66 \\ INTERNET : sonny@trantor.harris-atd.com | _ _ | Harris Corporation, ESS \\ UUCP : ...!uunet!x102a!trantor!sonny |_| |_| | | Advanced Technology Dept.\\ AETHER : K4VNO |==============|_/\/\/\|_| PO Box 37, MS 3A/1912 \\ VOICE : (407) 727-5886 | I SPEAK ONLY | |_| |_| | Melbourne, FL 32902 \\ FAX : (407) 729-2537 | FOR MYSELF. |_________|
jeffj@synsys.UUCP (Jeff Jonas) (10/12/90)
[] In reply to the current thread asking: > Please explain how doing a low level format causes 'wear' on the heads. I've seen enough of this garbage. I've handled many hard drives (5.25" and 8" winchester, 14" platters), and formatting is nothing more than writing a predetermined pattern on every track. The head starts at one end and steps across one track at a time, which is gentler than usual use to all the mechanisms and even the power supply (linear motors draw a lot of power when slewing the heads across the disk). [In the factory, formatting is done differently using specialized machines to stress the medium and give the most pessimistic defect list. Here we are discussing normal customer formatting] Look at the interface wires: there are NO special signals for formatting. Just the usual write and seek signals. The write signal is TTL, so the controller cannot give a stronger or weaker signal. There is no external control of the read/write amplifiers. As to the heads actually touching the platters: I've heard that in the eternal quest for higher density, there are SOME disks where the heads float on a layer of lubricant rather than flying on air. This allows the heads to get closer to the disk thus allowing more dense writing/reading. If you leave the heads in the same place for too long, you risk wearing away the lubricant, so these disks have built in controllers that automatically move the heads when the disk is idle. Then again, this was from a technician that couldn't understand how to select the optimal sector size. > If the machine is an AT, the disk will have been formatted by the > manufacturer before shipping. It is not recommended that you re-format Perhaps the drive is formatted (it had to be formatted to some extent at the factory for generating the defect map), but your controller may not understand the format. Not only is the disk format controller specific, you may choose different skewing, interleaving, sector size, etc. This is why disks usually come with a floppy with a formatter (Seagate drives come with the Ontrack Disk Manager). Jeffrey Jonas jeffj@synsys.uucp
davidsen@sixhub.UUCP (Wm E. Davidsen Jr) (10/14/90)
I would advise low level formatting every new disk before putting it
in service. Almost everyone agrees that you will get best reliability
when switching from horizontal to vertical mount by LL format. Now
quick! Was that factory format done H or V? And at what ambient
temperature? Right, now LL format the disk before using, and don't let
BS scare you.
See previous *great* posting about why it can't "stress the platters."
--
bill davidsen - davidsen@sixhub.uucp (uunet!crdgw1!sixhub!davidsen)
sysop *IX BBS and Public Access UNIX
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"Stupidity, like virtue, is its own reward" -me