ted@helios.ucsc.edu (Ted Cantrall) (10/19/90)
I am planning to up-grade from a CGA system to a SVGA, but there are so many claims made, it's very confusing. I know I want 1024 x 728 (or whatever the 700 number is) and that I should get a monitor with a .28 dot pitch ( or .25, I guess), but is there any real advantage to a multi-sync monitor? And someome told me there are even multi-sync cards, too! Arrggghhhhh! Has there been any recent magazine articles that covered this stuff? I've been following the NET for some time and haven't seen this thread. If someone could shed some light on this matter, I'd be internally (ulcers ;^}) greatfull. -ted- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ted@helios.ucsc.edu |"He has showed you, O man, what is good; and what does the W (408)459-2110 |Lord require of you but to do justice and to love kindness H (408)423-2444 |and to walk humbly with your God?" Micah 6:8 (RSV)
marshall@wind55.seri.gov (Marshall L. Buhl) (10/20/90)
ted@helios.ucsc.edu (Ted Cantrall) writes: >I am planning to up-grade from a CGA system to a SVGA, but there are A very wise decision. CGA should be banished from the face of the earth. >so many claims made, it's very confusing. >I know I want 1024 x 728 (or whatever the 700 number is) and that >I should get a monitor with a .28 dot pitch ( or .25, I guess), but >is there any real advantage to a multi-sync monitor? And someome told >me there are even multi-sync cards, too! Arrggghhhhh! As far as I know, ALL 1024x768 cards and monitors are multi-sync. DOS (if that's what you will be using) doesn't run in 1024x768. It will run in the standard 640x480. What software will you be using? Does it support anything above 640x480? Windows and some other programs will if you have a driver for your board and software. It's a short list. I have a Dell GPD-16C monitor and it's only .31 dot pitch. I think it has a rather nice picture (but I've never actually seen a .28 dot pitch monitor). I've never heard of a .25 monitor. Sounds very expensive. Mine cost over $1000. If you're going to 1024x768, I think you should look for a non-interlaced monitor and card combo. It will reduce flicker. You have to go with long persistence phosphor (like IBM 8514) to avoid flicker on an interlaced monitor. 1024x768x16 colors will require a 512K card. I think 1024x768x256 needs 1MB of video RAM. Don't forget, you will need special drivers for this stuff! I'm using a VGA Wizard from Ahead Systems right now. I also own a dead VRAM VGA w/ 512K. Random Access sold me a used (and previously failed) VRAM VGA card which died after about a month. Assholes! I'm waiting for a replacement. The VRAM VGA is MUCH faster than the VGA Wizard - especially at 1024x768. The Wizard is PAINFULLY slow at that resolution. The VRAM VGA also has a much clearer picture at the high resolution. I would recommend the Video Seven VRAM VGA despite the problems. Haven't tried any others at 1024x768. They do have a 7 year warranty. It did cost almost twice as much as the Wizard though, but I think it's worth it. > Has there been any recent magazine articles that covered this >stuff? I've been following the NET for some time and haven't seen this >thread. The 9/25/90 issue of PC Mag has a survey of service and reliability that includes SVGA cards and monitors. Check it out. You can probably find it at your local library. Good luck, and be careful! -- Marshall L. Buhl, Jr. EMAIL: marshall@seri.gov Senior Computer Missionary VOICE: (303)231-1014 Wind Research Branch 1617 Cole Blvd., Golden, CO 80401-3393 Solar Energy Research Institute Solar - safe energy for a healthy future
xjeldc@tts.lth.se (Jan Engvald) (10/23/90)
In article <7959@darkstar.ucsc.edu> ted@helios.ucsc.edu (Ted Cantrall) writes: >I am planning to up-grade from a CGA system to a SVGA, but there are >so many claims made, it's very confusing. >I know I want 1024 x 728 (or whatever the 700 number is) and that >I should get a monitor with a .28 dot pitch ( or .25, I guess), but >is there any real advantage to a multi-sync monitor? And someome told >me there are even multi-sync cards, too! Arrggghhhhh! Well, here is some info from my point of view. I want to upgrade my present graphic card and monitor to new ones capable of 1024*768 and 256 colors in Windows 3. However, I want to have flickerfree display, which to me means 66 Hz or above refresh rate. And not too expensive (less than $1500). Here is a summary of what I've found so far. Increasing refresh rate and resolution puts higher demands on the monitor. Here is a table of horisontal scan frequency and video bandwidth required for some common and uncommon cases. The horisontal frequency is calculated proportional to the vertical frequency, bandwidth is also proportional to the horisontal resolution. For the latter I only have one calibration point, where for 640*480 I have found 30 MHz to be usable and 40 MHz to be excellent. Note that for interlaced mode (1024*768i) you will get 43.5 Hz flicker for single pixel width lines (thus VERY visible in Windows or AutoCad) but 87 Hz flicker for large areas (so photos will be completely flickerfree). =============================================================================== Graphic mode ! vertical ! horisontal ! video ! ! frequency ! frequency ! bandwidth ! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MCGA 320*200 ! 70 Hz ! 31.5 kHz ! ! IBM standard 320*200 ! 85 Hz ! 38 kHz ! ! Sigma VGA Legend VGA 640*480 ! 60 Hz ! 31.5 kHz ! 30- 40 MHz ! IBM standard 640*480 ! 70 Hz ! 37 kHz ! 35- 47 MHz ! Tatung OmniVGA/HR 640*480 ! 72 Hz ! 38 kHz ! 36- 49 MHz ! Sigma VGA Legend SVGA 800*600 ! 56 Hz ! 35.5 kHz ! 42- 56 MHz ! most SuperVGA cards 800*600 ! 60 Hz ! 38 kHz ! 45- 60 MHz ! MegaVGA 800*600 ! 66 Hz ! 42 kHz ! 50- 66 MHz ! ? 800*600 ! 72 Hz ! 46 kHz ! 55- 73 MHz ! Sigma VGA Legend 800*600 ! 79 Hz ! 50 kHz ! 60- 79 MHz ! ? 800*600 ! 90 Hz ! 57 kHz ! 68- 90 MHz ! ? IBM8514 1024*768i ! 43.5/87 Hz ! 35.5 kHz ! 54- 72 MHz ! IBM standard 1024*768i ! 50/100 Hz ! 41 kHz ! 62- 83 MHz ! ? UVGA 1024*768 ! 60 Hz ! 48 kHz ! 74- 98 MHz ! new Ultra VGA cards 1024*768 ! 66 Hz ! 53 kHz ! 81-108 MHz ! ? 1024*768 ! 70 Hz ! 56 kHz ! 85-114 MHz ! ? 1024*768 ! 80 Hz ! 64 kHz ! 97-130 MHz ! ? 1280*1024 ! 60 Hz ! 64 kHz ! 120-163 MHz ! ? =============================================================================== Below are data on some monitors I've found (price in $$$ is about SEK/10): =============================================================================== Make and model ! vertical ! horisontal ! video ! size ! dot ! price ! frequency ! frequency ! bandwidth ! inch ! pitch! SEK ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- CTX Multiscan ! 50- 90 Hz ! 15-38 kHz ! 40 MHz ! 14 ! 0.28 ! 4590 NEC Multisync 3D ! 50- 90 Hz ! 15-38 kHz ! 45 MHz ! 14 ! 0.28 ! 5920 Hitachi 14MVX ! 50-100 Hz ! 30-40 kHz ! 45 MHz ! 14 ! 0.28 ! 6450 Idek MS 5115 ! 50- 90 Hz ! 21-50 kHz ! 50 MHz ! 15 ! ! 8900 EIZO 9070z ! 50- 80 Hz ! 20-50 kHz ! 50 MHz ! 16 ! 0.28 ! 10550 EIZO 9080i ! 50- 90 Hz ! 30-64 kHz ! 60 MHz ! 16 ! 0.28 ! 11995 NEC Multisync 4D ! 50- 90 Hz ! 30-57 kHz ! 75 MHz ! 16 ! 0.28 ! 10500 Hitachi HiScan 20 ! 50-100 Hz ! 30-64 kHz ! ?/100 MHz ! 20 ! 0.31 ! 24900 NEC Multisync 5D ! 50- 90 Hz ! 30-66 kHz ! 75/110 MHz ! 20 ! 0.31 EIZO 9400i ! 55- 90 Hz ! 30-65 kHz ! 120 MHz ! 20 ! 0.31 ! 23900 =============================================================================== Now, comparing the two tables above one can see that the most important monitor parameter seems to be the bandwidth. For example, the 4D can sync a 1024*768 70 Hz refresh picture, but single pixel text will probably not be crisp. But 800*600 at 72 Hz will be very crisp and 1024*768 at 60 Hz will also look good (this is by calculation, I havn't looked at it yet, so I may be wrong). Finally, here is some information on some of the new cards. I only have got fact sheets on the STB and Sigma cards, other info gathered from ads or by phone and may be incorrect (at least it is incomplete). =============================================================================== Make and model ! vertical ! horisontal ! Price and software drivers ! frequency ! frequency ! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mega/EVA 1 Mbyte 2990 SEK 1024*768i ! 43.5/87 Hz ! 35.5 kHz ! 1024*768 ! 60 Hz ! 48 kHz ! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tseng Lab Turbo MegaVGA 1 Mbyte 3990 SEK 1024*768i ! 43.5/87 Hz ! 35.5 kHz ! 1024*768 ! 60 Hz ! 48 kHz ! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- STB VGA EM-16 Plus 1 Mbyte 4770 SEK w3 AC Xw PM Ux 1024*768i ! 43.5/87 Hz ! 35.5 kHz ! 1024*768 ! 60 Hz ! 48 kHz ! 800*600 ! 56 Hz ! 35 kHz ! 640*480 ! 60 Hz ! 31.5 kHz ! text ! 70 Hz ! 31.5 kHz ! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MegaVGA 1 Mbyte 3120 SEK w3 1024*768i ! 43.5/87 Hz ! 35.5 kHz ! 1024*768 ! ? Hz ! ? kHz ! 800*600 ! 60 Hz ! 37.7 kHz ! 800*600 ! 56 Hz ! 35.5 kHz ! 640*480 ! 60 Hz ! 31.5 kHz ! text ! ? ? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sigma VGA Legend 1 Mbyte 3950 SEK ($569) 1024*768i ! 43.5/87 Hz ! 35.5 kHz ! w3 AC Gem L123 PM VP MW WP WS 1024*768 ! 60 Hz ! 49 kHz ! 800*600 ! 56 Hz ! 35.5 kHz ! 800*600 ! 60 Hz ! 38 kHz ! 800*600 ! 72 Hz ! 48 kHz ! 640*480 ! 60 Hz ! 31.5 kHz ! 640*480 ! 72 Hz ! 38 kHz ! text ! 70 Hz ! 31.5 kHz ! text ! 85 Hz ! 38? kHz ! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Orchid Prodesigner II 1024*768*256 1 MByte ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Texas Micro System V2GA 1024*768*256 noninterlaced 8514 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ICS Ultimate VGA 1024*768*256 int-/non-interlaced w3 8514 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- =============================================================================== Evaluation so far: My goal of 1024*768*256 at 66Hz for less than $1500 can not be fullfilled. However, the 4D + Sigma Legend gives 800*600*256 at 72 Hz, which is not bad at all (with this card you can select different refresh rates depending of the capabilities of your monitor). And I can get 1024*768*256 at 60 Hz, giving only slight flicker. Are there other cards than the Legend with 800*600*256 at above 66 Hz refresh rate? Jan Engvald, Lund University Computing Center ________________________________________________________________________ Address: Box 783 E-mail: Jan.Engvald@ldc.lu.se S-220 07 LUND Earn/Bitnet: xjeldc@seldc52 SWEDEN (Span/Hepnet: Sweden::Gemini::xjeldc) Office: Soelvegatan 18 VAXPSI: psi%2403732202020::xjeldc Telephone: +46 46 107458 (X.400: C=se; A=TeDe; P=Sunet; O=lu; Telefax: +46 46 138225 OU=ldc; S=Engvald; G=Jan) Telex: 33533 LUNIVER S
phil@brahms.amd.com (Phil Ngai) (10/23/90)
In article <marshall.656372851@wind55> marshall@wind55.seri.gov (Marshall L. Buhl) writes: |As far as I know, ALL 1024x768 cards and monitors are multi-sync. DOS Not true, one easy example is the IBM 8514 series. It runs in two modes, 31.5 KHz and 35 KHz, for 640x480 and 1024x768 (interlaced), respectively. Multi-sync is usually used to refer to something that can operate over a range of horizontal frequencies, like the NEC 3D which will do 15-40KHz (not sure about the 40) or the NEC 4D which will do 28-50KHz ( these numbers are also approximations which I knew at one time). |I have a Dell GPD-16C monitor and it's only .31 dot pitch. I think it |has a rather nice picture (but I've never actually seen a .28 dot pitch |monitor). I've never heard of a .25 monitor. Sounds very expensive. |Mine cost over $1000. I have a .25 dot pitch monitor. The Seiko 1440, 1450, and Sony 1304 all have this feature. Very nice. Not that expensive. But you have a 16 inch monitor |If you're going to 1024x768, I think you should look for a |non-interlaced monitor and card combo. It will reduce flicker. You And 16" at least. |1024x768x16 colors will require a 512K card. I think 1024x768x256 needs |1MB of video RAM. Don't forget, you will need special drivers for this Gee, Marshall, you can do the math! |> Has there been any recent magazine articles that covered this |>stuff? I've been following the NET for some time and haven't seen this |>thread. Yes, lots of them. Check out PC Magazine and Info World. Go to your library! -- The Bill of Rights isn't perfect, but it's better than what we have now.
ambush@kk4fs.UUCP (Ambush Bug) (10/30/90)
I recently bought a Paradise 1024 SVGA card and Samsung 4581 multi-sync from USA*Flex, and here's the scoop on it. They were cheap as hell (my main motivation to buy them.) The monitor was $379, and the card about $250. My only gripe is with the card, it only does 16 colors in 800x600. Why, I have no idea, since it's got 512K RAM, and should be capable of 256. But, it can't... The monitor is great, it's .31mm dot pitch, and interlaced at 1024x768, neither of which is a serious handicap. The picture is considerably better than the true blue IBM PS/2's on campus (55sx's with 8513's, I think.) A word of warning, I set the monitor up on a friend's machine with an ATI VGA wonder card, and the picture in 800x600 and 1024x768 wasn't very hot. The card and monitor didn't seem to be at quite the same sync rate (there were lines on the screen, among other things.) He bought one of the monitors anyway, and the same thing happened. It's okay up to 800x600, but above that, it's not very good (on an ATI card, it's fine on my Paradise.) If you're on a budget (like me) then I'd reccomend this set up. Although now I'd probably look at another video card, like an Everex VRAM Viewpoint. Perhaps an 8514/a card, or XGA, when they come out. Oh, if anyone knows how to get this card (Paradise 1024/512K) to do 256 colors at 800x600, I'd appreciare it. No signature file, because I'm too lazy to make one, and the header is more interesting anyway.