link@stew.ssl.berkeley.edu (Richard Link) (11/09/90)
Thanks to all those who replied to my question regarding a good deal
on a 386 or 386/SX.
I think the replies I got may be of interest to others, so I am posting
the entire text of the messages received.
Warning: this is very long.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: tlhilde@ecn.purdue.edu (Troy Hildebrand)
I purchased a 386sx from Octagon Computers (advertised in the shopper).
The system is as follows:
386sx
2 Meg ram
80 Meg SCSI drive
5 1/4 HD floppy
1024x768 Loop Monitor w/512K 16bit card
mini tower, 200W ps, keyboard...
dos 4.01 / gwbasic included
total price: $1881. And here's the kicker: two year "on site" warranty,
meaning if you have a problem that cannot be solved over the phone, they
will send a technician out to you (if you are withing 50 miles of the
nearest outlet that they have a contract with). I have not taken advantage
of this yet, however.
I was happy with the price they gave me, but they did not do a very good
job putting it together. I had to send back the VGA card, which did not
display color when used with programs other than the vga card's software,
and both the vga card and the serial card arrived un-seated. This could
be their fault, or UPS's. Also they forgot to include a power cable.
all in all, i am happy for the price.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: convex!gargulak@uxc.cso.uiuc.edu (Tom Gargulak)
The Aug, 1990 issue of PC magazine has a good (and long) article
on best-buy 386SX machines. I'd check it out. You can probably do
it for much less than $2500.
BTW: They recommend the Micro Express machine.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: werner@aecom.yu.edu (Craig Werner)
You just described most of the direct manufacturer advertising
in PC Magazine. Most are $1995 or less for a 40M hard drive and 1M
memory, but with SVGA. You left a couple hundred for enhancement. You
have your pick...
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: gerry@frc2.frc.ri.cmu.edu (Gerry Roston)
for little more than $2500, you can get at 25Mhx with cache
and windows 3 from gateway 2000.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: tmurphy%peruvian@cs.utah.edu (Thomas Murphy)
My normal preference in "budget" dos machines right now is Zeos. They
are competitively priced and have not only good support but also have great
performance. If you had cash to burn then HP is outstanding but that is anotherstory. Another good machine to look at right now is the ALR veisa machines.
They make a series with "upgradeable processors so you could go to a 486 etc.
later if you so desired.
60 meg is kind of non-standard you will see most systems with 40 or 80 make
sure it is a 18 ms disc or better. Try not to get stuck with DOS 4.0. Else
have fun.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: scott@Futures.COM (Scott Boyd)
The system you describe is available at your local PRICE CLUB
Membership Warehouse for $1800.00. The system is made by Packard-Bell
and comes with a 80 MB HD, but only 1MB of RAM. They thrown in
some software too.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: draper@buster.cps.msu.edu (Patrick J Draper)
Take a look at Computer Shopper. There are several reputable companies
that advertise there.
Forget all the horror stories about buying computers through the mail. A
friend of mine owns a Gateway 2000. His monitor was operational, but had
a loose board inside and the screen picture shrank every few minutes. He
called Gateway and they Federal Expressed a new monitor out the very
next morning at their cost. He didn't even have to return the defective
monitor first. I was very impressed.
Companies that I know of that are quality and service oriented are:
NorthGate
GateWay
Zeos
Swan
Austin
EPS - these folks use brand name components and are proud of it. If you
call them and ask about a particular component you'll get in one of
their systems, they'll send you a thick packet full of technical
specifications.
There are undoubtedly more, but I can't think of them offhand.
If you really would like to try before you buy, I believe that compuadd
has good prices on 386SX's, and they have retail outlets.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: G. Wayne Nichols <gwni@uhura.cc.rochester.edu>
The latest issue of PC Magazine reviewed a bunch of 386SX 20 MHz machines.
However, my personal experience is as follows:
I ordered a 20 MHz 386SX, both 5 1/4 and 3 1/2 floppies,
"slim" AT case (but the 3 1/2 floppy is NOT on its side!),
101 key keyboard, 512K VGA board (Paradise OEM), Loop color VGA
monitor (does 1024x768 interlaced), 40MB IDE hard disk,
WD 2:1 interleave IDE controller, 2 MB of 80 ns DIP DRAMs.
Whew, I think that's it. Price including shipping: $1660.
Price for 100 MB disk, 4 MB memory instead: exactly $2000.
By the way, I've already installed enough memory to bring mine up to 4 MB.
The Landmark speed is 25 MHz!. I like the system. I had to double-check
(and reset) some of the CMOS setup entries, though. My keyboard connector
has developed some problems, too - I'm going to ship it back for replace-
ment.
Ordered from:
Trans International 1-800-783-2120 (Anaheim, CA)
1 yr. warranty; 15 day money-back guarantee.
They shipped it a week after I ordered it.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: tmurphy%peruvian@cs.utah.edu (Thomas Murphy)
A point I meant to add was maybe you want to hold out till at least after
comdex as there will be more 20mhz machines around then.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: nan@phobos.cis.ksu.edu (Nan _ Zou )
I recently purchased a 25Mhz 386 from a company named EPS, perhaps you have rea
d about this company in previous posting. There have been some good reviews abo
ut this company. I looked at their ad and find exactly what you need:
386SX
1.2 + 1.44 M floppy standard
2 Meg of RAM (could upgrade to 4 for another ~180-200
65 Meg HD (another 140 would get you a 17ms 80 Meg IDE)
Sony CPD 1304 non-interlace monitor (1024x768, .25mm dot pitch)
Orchid ProDesigner II VGA card with 1 Meg (1024x768x256, non-interlace)
total price 2295
as you can see, this is a great price for the components they offer. I can give you their phone number if you're interested.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Stephen M. Smith <smsmith@hpuxa.ircc.ohio-state.edu>
I've been shopping for a 386-33 via mail order and I thought you
might like a copy of a file I put together about the mail order
business. Near the middle of it I provide some info on a 386sx
system offered by EPS Technologies. Hope it is helpful.
(file follows)
___________________________________________________________
Hello, fellow netter! So you're in the market for a computer...
If I have emailed you before, sorry for this duplication--
I probably subscribe to too many newsgroups! Also, if the contents
in this letter seem trivial or obvious, remember that they might not
be that way for the next person...
I've been shopping for a computer for nearly half a year now, and
I've learned a LOT about mail order companies. So every time I
see a notice on the net which asks about buying a computer I'm
dying to write a ten-page follow-up note to warn the poster about
this or that, and to give them an idea of what they should shop for
and where. Please note that the particular system that I have been
shopping for is a 386-33, so I have to confess my focus is pretty
narrow. Nevertheless, I've decided to write this generic letter so
that I can respond more thoroughly to people who are looking into
the mail order end of buying a PC.
If you are shopping for a 386sx I include a short section in this
file which gives EPS's 386sx system configuration and price.
About Mail Order Companies:
Since all mail order companies operate on the same principle it is
not too difficult to compare them, at least on an outward basis:
They all order their parts (most of the parts, anyway) from OTHER
companies in bulk, put the pieces together into a working package,
then sell the package to us, backing the package up with warranties,
on-site service contracts, good tech support (with or without 1-800
phone numbers), and their own reputation for good customer relations
and stability in the industry (i.e., whether they're still going
to be in the business next year). A few of these mail order companies
manufacture their own motherboards, or have a particular component
of their systems designed specifically for them by another
manufacturer (such as the cpu case, or a monitor which has their own
name on it). In these cases it is sometimes difficult to determine
who made a particular hardware component, and (thus) how reliable
it is.
In addition, it is important to know about the firmware of the system.
"Firmware," in layman's terms, refers to software that is permanently
integrated into the machine's design (in particular into the ROM.
Firmware is not, in fact, totally permanent--but that's beside the
point in this discussion.) You should know, for example, who made
the BIOS used by your motherboard. Since firmware is integrally tied
to the hardware, I will simply talk about hardware--but be aware that
a motherboard and the motherboard's BIOS are created by different
companies, and you should know who made both before you buy.
So there are two main "ingredients" which go into a mail order
system: The hardware and the company which backs it. Which is more
important? Well, to me it's the hardware; after all, the mail order
company didn't "make" the computer, they assembled it for the most
part. A good mail order company, however, should know which components
work best together and should test each system for compatibility.
The dependability of the mail order company is important as well.
Though I will stress good, reliable hardware in this letter you must
be able to trust your company to deliver items promptly and make good
on any faulty equipment they send you. There is no one good way to
determine whether a company is "sound" or not except by listening
to the praises and gripes of its customers. Usually if a company has
been selling for several years and is still doing good business
it's a good sign.
An Analogy:
One might compare a mail order company's computer to a car carrier
(those big trucks that are used to carry several cars from one
place to the next). Comparing a computer to one single car is NOT
a good analogy since a car company oversees the construction of the car
from beginning to end, unless of course the engine is made by someone
else which is rare (like the new Chevy Nova). It is better to compare
the computer to a car carrier because different companies will make
the cars that are on the carrier, right? In the same way, a mail order
company's computer is composed of parts made by OTHER companies, and
in fact most of those parts can be bought by mail order from other
vendors. So when a mail order company advertises a computer that has
a 1.2Mb floppy drive and a 1.44Mb floppy drive, that is just as
informative as someone selling you a car carrier that has "a car with
four wheels" and "a truck with four wheels." Not too informative, huh?
Who made the car? Who made the truck? Have they been reviewed in
any magazines such as Consumer Reports? Surely you wouldn't buy a
car carrier that is advertised as having these items without asking
further questions--not if you're laying down good money for the whole
package! Thus to shop for a good computer via mail order is more
difficult in this respect than shopping for a single car: You should
be concerned about the individual make and reliability of each of
the components which make up the larger system.
Northgate, Dell, Zeos, Gateway, and EPS:
Some people have asked me specifically about Northgate, Dell, Zeos,
and Gateway. In my opinion these are all good companies, and I have
read most of their ads in the last 4 months (and some going back to
last year). Though you may not be considering any of these companies,
let me say a few specifics about these companies and compare them to
my own (current) mail order choice--EPS Technologies. After that I
will give some pointers on sources for finding out more about companies
in general. Let me warn you that each of these companies will have
people that love them as well as hate them, depending on how they've
been treated, so be sure to measure what I say by what you read and
hear from other people.
Northgate I know little about because I never called them. The reason
for this is they are rather expensive, so I never considered them.
Maybe if I compare the advertised systems of these four companies it
will be easier to compare them to EPS (my own choice) to show what
I mean:
(the following is current as of October, 1990--companies change their
prices and components almost MONTHLY, so call them to find out specifics;
if items differ from what is advertised it's because they have changed
their system after the ad was made)
NORTHGATE: 4 MEG RAM
64k RAM Cache
200 MEG Maxtor HDD (15 ms; 32k cache)
Monitor--1024x768 (brand? dpi? interlaced?)
Graphics Card--512K (brand? expand to 1 meg?)
Keyboard--OmniKey ULTRA
1.2 & 1.44 floppies (brand?)
8 expansion slots
tower case
30 day money-back guarantee
1 year parts and labor
COST (with "free" software): $5299
DELL: 1 MEG RAM
64k RAM Cache
40 MEG Seagate HDD (? ms; ? cache)
Monitor--640x480 (brand? .31 dpi)
Graphics Card--512k (brand? expand to 1 meg?)
Keyboard--brand?
1.2 OR 1.44 floppy (brand?)
6 expansion slots
desktop case
30 day money-back guarantee
1 year parts and labor
COST: $3599
ZEOS: 4 MEG RAM (expands to 32 on mother board)
128k RAM Cache
89 MEG Seagate HDD (19 ms; NO cache)
Monitor--1024x768 (Diamond Scan, .28 dpi, interlaced)
Graphics Card--512k (Paradise, expand to 1 meg?)
Keyboard--ZEOS/RS SpaceSaver
1.2 & 1.44 floppies (TEAC)
8 expansion slots (2 32 bit)
tower case
30 day money-back guarantee
1 year parts and labor
COST: $3695
GATEWAY: 4 MEG RAM
64k RAM Cache
150 MEG Seagate CDC HDD (17 ms; 32k cache)
Monitor--1024x768 (Crystal Scan, .28 dpi, interlaced)
Graphics Card--512k maximum (ATI Wonder)
Keyboard--Gateway 2000
1.2 & 1.44 floppies (Epson)
? expansion slots
desktop case
30 day money-back guarantee
1 year parts and labor
COST: $3495
EPS: 4 MEG RAM
64k RAM Cache
160 MEG Micropolis HDD (16 ms; 64k cache)
Monitor--1024x768 (Sony 1304, .25 dpi, NON-interlaced)
Graphics Card--512k (upgradable to 1 MEG, Orchid Pro II)
Keyboard--Fujitsu
1.2 & 1.44 (TEAC)
8 expansion slots
desktop case
60 day money-back guarantee
1 year parts and labor
COST: $3795
The question marks are not necessarily meant to say that something
is not sound, they simply mean I do not know what they have to
offer (even though I have called all of them except Northgate and
have looked at the literature I've received so far).
As you can see, the company that stands out for its high price
is Northgate, and the company that has to offer the least for the
standard price (mid-$3000's) is Dell. Why is Northgate so expensive?
Their hard drive holds a little more than Gateway's and EPS's (40 MEG
more), and is clearly the fastest--though only by a few mss compared
to Gateway and EPS. They also offer a tower case and some "free"
software. But I sure wouldn't pay $1500 extra for those things.
(Their keyboard is, however, the best of the five companies.)
Northgate, nevertheless, does try to please its customers and will
definitely be around next year, so that is a major plus going for
it. If you have seen their ads you realize how much they pay
for advertising (pages and pages and pages of ads...), so I'm sure
that costs them a good deal and they need to counterbalance that
by higher prices.
Why does Dell offer so little in its package? A 40 MEG hard drive
is way too small for this system (it would be filled up in no time).
And its graphics are the cheapest I've seen for any mainline company
selling a 386-33: plain VGA with a low resolution. And you can't
run OS/2 or Windows 3.0 without a memory upgrade. Let's face it--
1 MEG for this system just doesn't cut it. On the other hand,
Dell far excels ANY mail order company for its customer service
and reliability, so that's something to think about. When I spoke
with Dell on the phone they said that it would cost $200-$400
dollars for a memory upgrade to 4 MEG ($200 to fully populate the
board or $400 for a better chip which would allow for further
expansion if needed); for their 190 MEG hard drive it costs an extra
$600; and to get upgraded to a better monitor who knows? (I didn't
ask). If it's only $300 to upgrade to a topline multisync monitor
(and it would be more) then their $3599 system costs $4699-$4899.
I can't afford that.
Zeos, Gateway, and EPS are really so close that to me it's not doing
much good to quibble over this or that. Actually, people have
different experiences with the same company--some will tell you
horror stories and others will swear by the company. I suppose
that's because no two computers are exactly alike even when they
come off the same "assembly line." One might run for years, the other
might be DOA. But so much for philosophizing... Let me just explain
briefly why I feel EPS is one of the better mail order companies.
Please understand that I have not bought anything from them; I am just
comparing their advertisements, literature, claims, and prices with the
other companies. So if you should consider buying from EPS, please
talk to someone who has bought from them.
First of all, EPS is one of the few companies who are totally up
front about what goes into their systems. Though their advertisements
are multi-paged as the other companies' ads are, they are still fairly
small which allows them to maintain consistent hardware components for
their systems. That is, they can say that such-and-such model #
of controller card will be in all their 386-33's, etc. They can do
this because they don't (yet) have to ship so many out. Thus you
see that I have no question marks in EPS's category. When I requested
information from them they sent me a packet of material which not
only described each hardware item but also gave references for tests
that have been done, the most recent review, and specs upon specs
upon specs. Plus they have the best guarantee--60 days money-back
(plus the usual 1 year parts and labor, one year free on-site service,
and life-time toll-free tech support).
I'm most impressed by EPS's standard hard drive and video system:
Their Micropolis Hard drive has an unbelievable 150,000 hour MTBF
(mean time between failure rate). If you know of a more reliable
drive email me! And if anything SHOULD go wrong with this ESDI
drive it is engineered so that all boards and mechanical fixtures
are independently replaceable units (making field replacement of
electronic assemblies a single 15 minute maximum repair [MTTR =
15 min.]). The hard disk controller is an Adaptec 64k cached card.
Their ads say that the card is an Ultrastor 32k, but they upgraded
that just last month to the new Adaptec. (Just for comparison,
Gateway uses the Ultrastor 32k--half the cache of EPS's new card.)
It is interesting that with all the improvements on disk caching
Zeos doesn't even have one, because (as they told me on the phone) "you
don't need one because the hard drive can keep up." Yeah, right...
(They do offer upgrades on their drive controllers which would then
give you cache, but they are very expensive.)
EPS's graphics card is the new Orchid ProDesigner II (not to be
confused with the old ProDesigner which was reviewed in a recent
PC Magazine). This new card is built around the Tseng4000 video
chip--the same chip that a number of other good quality SVGA boards
are based on. It can drive interlaced and non-interlaced monitors
in all modes at all the standard configurations, display
256 colors in 320x200, 640x400, 640x480, 800x600, and 1024x768,
and display a number of other configurations. Since the Tseng4000
is becoming the chip of choice it has a great variety of high-
resolution drivers being written for it.
I have saved EPS's monitor, however, for last because it's the
cream of the crop. This Sony CPD-1304 has one of the brightest
screens according to a recent reviewer. It not only has
the tightest dot pitch in the industry (.25), but it is the
only non-interlaced monitor that comes standard of the five
companies above. Of course Gateway offers the Sony 1304 in their
"options" list, but you pay an extra $300 for that upgrade (so you
tell me who has the best monitor!). And even if Gateway had this
monitor as a standard feature their graphics card couldn't
adequately drive it (since their card holds only 512k max).
Additional Info On EPS:
One *drawback* about EPS is that it is a young company (2 years
old). Also, a couple people I've talked to said that EPS did
not supply adequate documentation with their 386-33 systems.
According to EPS this has been rectified; I talked to them on
November 8 and they said they now provide a 140-page manual which
goes with their system, plus they provide all the original docs
for all the individual hardware components supplied by the original
manufacturers. I recently read in PC Magazine a review of the Sony
monitor; it seems that it is one of the lesser reliable monitors of the
multisync variety, and has horrible tech support since Sony's tech
support people have to handle calls for all of Sony's products.
The people who have the Sony LOVE it, but according to the article
there is greater potential for breakdown. That is also something to
consider. I will probably ask for the Nanao 16" .28 non-interlaced
monitor to go with my system, then, if I order from EPS. This is
a hefty $425 upgrade, but Gateway offers the same upgrade for an
even heftier $750.
To learn more about EPS read the June 1990 issue of Computer Buyer's
Guide for the review of their 386-25 (a little outdated now though)
and the upcoming December review in Vulcan's Computer Monthly (where
EPS is featured on the cover).
The following contains some info for you 386sx buyers:
______________________________________________________________
EPS 386sx:
2 Meg 0 Wait State RAM
Desktop Case/200 Watt Power Supply
80387 socket
AMI BIOS/ Clock Calendar
2 Serial/ 1 Parallel/ 1 Game Port
6-16 bit slots, 2-8 bit slots
TEAC 1.2 and 1.44 MB Floppy Drives
Mitsubishi MR 535 65 Meg HD (24ms)
Adaptec 8K Cache (2F/2H) Controller
Sony 1304 Monitor (1024x768, .25 dpi, non-interlaced)
Orchid ProDesigner II w/512k (expandable to 1 Meg)
Fujitsu 101 Keyboard
MS DOS 4.01 or 3.3 w/GW Basics
1 Year Warranty (parts and labor)
1 Year On Site Service
60-Day Money Back Guarantee
COST: $2285 (this *includes* shipping)
As you can see EPS's 386sx system has the same display as their
top of the line models. The Mitsubishi hard drive had an excellent
review in PC Magazine, September 25, 1990. This drive is RLL; you
may wish to look at the October 1990 issue of PC Sources (p. 412)
and the October 30 issue of PC Magazine (p. 429) for information
on RLL drives as they pertain to this size of drive. I believe
that EPS made a great decision putting this drive in this system!
______________________________________________________________
Mail Order Info Sources:
I guess by now you see my affinity for good, reliable hardware. The
only drawback to going strictly with hardware choices is that there
are SO MANY companies that manufacture components. So how do you
know what to look for and what to watch out for? This is where
reading the various PC magazines come in. If you really are serious
about shopping for a computer, you should be reading Computer Shopper,
PC Magazine, and PC Sources. PC Sources is a brand new magazine
created exclusively to help the mail order buyer. Its premier issue
(October 1990) has the following in its table of contents (I've
included some of their descriptions of the chapter contents):
Buying Smart: Buying PC products by phone is easy when you know what
to look for--and what to look out for...
Cracking The Code: How To Read A PC Mail-Order Ad: Advertisements
for PC systems could daunt the most dedicated linguist.
The acronyms, the arcane terms, the jargon...
Shopping For A Warranty: A warranty is one of the most important
elements of a product purchase. R. Lockwood tells you
the differences among warranties and what considerations
are most important.
Marketplace: With Or Without Software?: Software that comes bundled
with a system can be a great deal--if you know what
you're getting.
Plus in the first 50 pages or so there are at least nine articles
and columns written to further help the buyer. They also do
many reviews of mail order items. I have no connection with this
magazine except that I'm glad they are there and that they seem to
be getting off on the right start. If you are interested in
subscribing, first check your local computer store to read an issue
yourself, or you can subscribe directly by writing to PC Sources,
P.O. Box 53298, Boulder, CO 80321-3298 (or call them toll free
at 1-800-827-2078).
The Computer Shopper often has good articles on mail ordering, and
each month they have one or two pages which provide guidelines for
mail order buying. In the November issue they have a good article
entitled "Exploding the Myth of the Mail-Order Market."
The next place you should look is the file called "products"
which is available by anonymous ftp at math.princeton.edu in the
directory pub/rjc/csip. Directions for obtaining this file and using
the ftp are given in the monthly posting called Frequently Asked
Questions in the newsgroup comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc. This file is
composed of short questions and answers about mail order companies
and hardware, and gives the email addresses for the people who
submitted the questions to the net so that you can email them
directly to see if they can help you on a particular item or subject.
The person who maintains this file recently posted a good notice
on it. He said:
>The file "products" in the archives contains a distilled collection of
>assorted comments, questions, etc. regarding companies and their
>products. Over 200 questions and responses are listed. Instructions
>for obtaining it can be found in the Frequently Asked Questions file,
>a copy of which should still be available in the newsgroup
>comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc.
>To pique your interest, here's the table of contents. I maintain this
>file on my own time and money. If you find it useful, let me know.
>Otherwise, I'll be tempted to discontinue it:
+--------------------------------------------------------------------
| Table of contents:
|
| 386, upgrading from 286
| Card, Paradise
| Computer
| AAT
| ACMA
| ALR
| Advantage
| Altec
| Amstrad
| Apricot
| Austin
| Black Ship
| Bondwell laptops
| CompuAdd
| Computer Terminal International
| DAK (BSR 386SX)
| DTK
| EPS
| Ergo, "The Brick"
| Excell
| Express Micro Mart
| FastMicro
| Fresh Data
| Gateway 2000
| Homesmart Computing
| Hornet 386
| Hyundai 386C
| IBM Convertible
| Insight
| Jeppsen
| KLH
| Leading Edge PC
| Micro Express
| Micro Generation
| Microlab
| Mitsubishi
| Northgate
| 486 i25
| Packard-Bell
| PC Brand
| Positive
| Premier
| Q-Tek
| Swan
| Top Gun
| Touche
| Tredex
| Tri-Star
| Tri-State in New York
| USA-Flex
| Zenith Turbosport
| Zenith Turbosport 386
| Zeos
| Zeos 386 20DX Laptop
| choosing a laptop/portable
| Jade
| general
| laptop
| Excelan Exos 205 Ethernet card
| Fax board
| Hard disk card
| Hard disk cards for PS/2 30-286
| Hard disk controller, Perstor vs WD1006 RLL
| Hard disk controller, two in one machine
| Hard disk controllers, which work with what drives?
| Hard disk, Conner
| Hard disk/floppy disk RLL 1:1 16-bit controller
| Hard disk, SyQuest 44MB removable
| Hard disk, general
| Hard drives in old PCs
| Mail order companies, PC Connection
| Mail-order discount houses for 386s (general comments)
| Monitor
| EGA
| Gateway VGA
| NEC 3D
| Paradise
| VGA
| Zenith Z-1492 FTM
| Dell
| Goldstar
| Mitsubishi DiamondScan
| Multisync
| NANAO FlexScan 9070U
| NEC
| Princeton
| Motherboard, 386
| Motherboard, 386 or 386SX, with 287 coprocessor socket
| Motherboard, 386SX
| Motherboard, 486 EISA
| Motherboard, AMI
| Motherboard, EVEREX Revision E 386
| Motherboard, Intel 386/PC Inboard
| Motherboard, Jameco 386
| Motherboard, Mylex vs Micronics
| Motherboard, upgrading 286 to 386
| SCSI board for PS2 MOD 80-071
| SCSI controller IN2000 by Always Inc
| Santa Clara diskless workstations
| Scanners/OCR
| Sequa Chameleon PC
| Sony 1304HG
| Sony CPD-1304
| Sota 286i and 386i Accelerator Cards for PCs
| Sound boards
| Tape backup
| Tandy 4016SX
| Trackball
| Trackball, Logitech Trackman
| VGA & Composite Video in one monitor
| VGA Wonder Card (ATI), hooking up to BNC high res color monitor
| VGA card, 1024x748 non-interlaced
| VGA card, ATI VGA Wonder
| VGA card, Genoa
| VGA card, Suntek
| VGA card, general
| i860 and i960 board for AT-bus
+---------------------------------------------------------------------
(end quote)
Thirdly, to understand how an IBM or compatible works (what BIOS is,
what a 387 does, how the floppies operate, etc.) it would be a
good idea to read an up-to-date book on the subject. I have found
Peter Norton's "Inside the IBM PC and PS/2" to be very helpful in
this regard (be sure to get the latest 1990 edition). Norton has
a knack for explaining difficult concepts in layman's terms, and
whenever he wants to address technical matters he sets it off from
the rest of the chapter in a category called "Technical Background."
Another book which might be helpful is "The Winn Rosch Hardware Bible."
This book is structured so that it can be used as a handy reference
tool; Winn Rosch addresses his information to a wide audience ranging
from the novice to the experienced PC user.
Lastly, the best way to get to know a company is to call them and ask
for more literature to be sent to you. This helps to ease the tension
we feel about contacting a company by phone and costs us nothing since
most of the major mail order companies have 1-800 numbers. Believe
me, you won't be bothering them--they LOVE to send you stuff!
If you already have a company in mind, I leave you with this thought:
Do you know who made the components of its systems and how reliable
they are? If you don't, you should find out before you buy.
I welcome email concerning anything in this long-winded letter. :-)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: forrest@sybase.com (Jon Forrest)
I recommend that you look at what Evergreen Computers has for sale.
They're a clone store over off of Central near CostCo. They seem
to have the best prices for clones around the Berkeley area. I've
bought several things from them. They even once took back some SIMMS
I mistakenly bought instead of SIPPS.
There is another clone chain called HD Computers that is going
to be opening an El Cerrito branch any day now. They have a 25 Mhz
(I think) 386 system with SVGA for around $2000. Check them out.
I have a 25 Mhz 386 clone with a 150Mbyte ESDI disk and 8 megs of
memory that I'm very happy with. I recommend buying as much memory
as you can afford. With memory at around $50/meg it doesn't make
sense to skrimp. It's especially important since if you buy a 1meg
system you get 4 256K Simms which you'd have to get rid of if you
upgrade to anything over 2Megs.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: jme@pacer.Pacer.COM (sorry, I accidentally deleted the name)
You can get a 386DX/25 system for that much bucks.
As someone who is also looking at this time, I have the following advice:
Don't bother with an SX. A DX/25 is twice as fast for at most $300 more.
Get a good no name clone with a more or less name brand mother board. Micronics
is quite good, but there are others.
If you are capable of plugging in SIMMs & such yourself, you may do better by
buying a motherboard and building it up yourself. No soldering required.
RAM: get it in 1MB units rather than 256K. 1MB SIMMs can be had for $60 by mail
A 386SX has a 16 bit bus, requiring memory be installed in pairs. A 386DX
requires groups of 4. Few, if any, companies let you mix different types of ram
on the same bus, making 256K SIMMs surplus when you expand. Get room for 8MB on
the mother board. 4MB will be obsolescent in short order.
VIDEO: for SVGA dot pitch should be .28 or less. The horizontal & vertical
bandwidth shouldn't be much more than 4Mhz different. Check picture quality
around the edges. Make sure the card can handle enough memory.
HDD: AVOID RLL. most 60MB drives are RLL. IDE is most cost effective right now.
SCSI is too immature in the PC world right now. MFM limits you to 40MB.
I have an ad in my hand for a 386/25 with 1MB RAM & a 40MB drive, .28 dpt pitch
VGA color, for $1595 at a store in Seattle. Add $200 for SVGA, $325 for 100MB
hard drive, & $79 for a 1.44 floppy. Also 8.2% washington sales tax. SIGH!
You should be able to do as well or better. Rumor has it that the 386 CPU
clones will be out in early 91, forcing intel prices down some.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------tlhilde@en.ecn.purdue.edu (Troy Hildebrand) (11/09/90)
In article <1990Nov9.045017.6796@agate.berkeley.edu> link@stew.ssl.berkeley.edu (Richard Link) writes: >Thanks to all those who replied to my question regarding a good deal >on a 386 or 386/SX. > >I think the replies I got may be of interest to others, so I am posting >the entire text of the messages received. > >Warning: this is very long. > >------------------------------------------------------------------------- >From: tlhilde@ecn.purdue.edu (Troy Hildebrand) > >I purchased a 386sx from Octagon Computers (advertised in the shopper). >The system is as follows: > >386sx >2 Meg ram >80 Meg SCSI drive >5 1/4 HD floppy >1024x768 Loop Monitor w/512K 16bit card >mini tower, 200W ps, keyboard... >dos 4.01 / gwbasic included > >total price: $1881. And here's the kicker: two year "on site" warranty, >meaning if you have a problem that cannot be solved over the phone, they >will send a technician out to you (if you are withing 50 miles of the >nearest outlet that they have a contract with). I have not taken advantage >of this yet, however. > >I was happy with the price they gave me, but they did not do a very good >job putting it together. I had to send back the VGA card, which did not >display color when used with programs other than the vga card's software, >and both the vga card and the serial card arrived un-seated. This could >be their fault, or UPS's. Also they forgot to include a power cable. > >all in all, i am happy for the price. > The above was my reply to Mr. Link's request. I was relatively happy with Octagon. At least until I tried to contact my sales representative early this week. I have since tuesday of this week, however, started to reconsider my situation. I am unable to contact anybody at "Octagon Technologies Inc" via their 800 number (1-800-726-1775) and have been unable to obtain a number for them via directory assistance. Their ad in the shopper claims that they are located on 16th street in NY, NY. DOES ANYBODY KNOW HOW TO CONTACT THEM? Their two-year warranty is no good if they went out of business :(. help, Troy -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Troy Hildebrand | That'll be the last | The Internet: more than just tlhilde@en.ecn.purdue.edu | teacup I have... | a free phone system! Whee! tiptop@vet.vet.purdue.edu |
rajs@hpindda.cup.hp.com (Rajeev Seth) (11/10/90)
A very important thing to consider before buying a 386 system is the name of the motherboard manufacturer. (This was omitted by the original poster) I believe AMI is the best board around for its proven quality and compatibility with most software and is worth paying the extra $500 or so above the Taiwanese made boards. What is the opinion of others on this?
ilan343@violet.berkeley.edu (Geraldo Veiga) (11/11/90)
In article <51370009@hpindda.cup.hp.com> rajs@hpindda.cup.hp.com (Rajeev Seth) writes: >A very important thing to consider before buying a 386 system is the name >of the motherboard manufacturer. (This was omitted by the original poster) >I believe AMI is the best board around >for its proven quality and compatibility with most software and is worth >paying the extra $500 or so above the Taiwanese made boards. What is the >opinion of others on this? I had the opprortunity of trying out ISC's UNIX on a some motherboards (Micronics, DTK and a generic Taiwanese) combined with a variety of peripherals. The motherboards were the least of my problems. ESDI controllers and video adaptor were the real hassle. My uneducated guess is that since most of these no-name boards are based on the same chipset (C&T) compatibility can be taken for granted. They don't have to do much desinging to come out with a generic AT-bus 386.