jdb@reef.cis.ufl.edu (Brian K. W. Hook) (02/12/91)
This is a candidate for a FAQ if there ever was one:
I am interested in the CMS 60MB tape drive (120MB w/compression)
and am wondering:
A. Since I have two floppies hooked up to an RLL controller right now,
do I need the external drive or do I need the special controller
card?
B. What are the benefits of the external drive? I heard that they are
faster.
C. Is the CMS 60MB any good?
D. Will it conflict with an IDE controller/disk (Conner CPD3204)?
Thanks in advance,
Briannee@cf_su14.Salomon.Com (Robert Nee) (02/12/91)
> I am interested in the CMS 60MB tape drive (120MB w/compression) > and am wondering: > A. Since I have two floppies hooked up to an RLL controller right now, > do I need the external drive or do I need the special controller > card? No. I repeat NO! All you need is the cable CMS makes for their tape drives. It is a cable with 3 heads. 1 A drive, and 2 B drive. The tape drive shares the B drive designation with a floppy with NO problems. The Tape and floppy use two mutually exclusive sets of lines on the cable. > B. What are the benefits of the external drive? I heard that they are > faster. The only benefit would be from the controller board which is necessary for the external model. The CMS made controller operates at 1 Mbit per second. Twice that of a floppy controller. However, I find the floppy interface to be plenty fast. Yielding backup speeds of about 3.6 Megabytes pe minute when I use a program with compression. Thats about 11 minutes for a 40 MB hard disk. Not too shabby, considering you can start it and walk away. > C. Is the CMS 60MB any good? I have had one now for 4 months. No problems. I've done about 50-60 backups with it. I love this thing. > D. Will it conflict with an IDE controller/disk (Conner CPD3204)? That depends on what you mean by "it"? If you go with the special cable that connects to the floppy controller, the answer is no. This configuration is about as passive as can be. BUT if you go with the tape adapter board (which I hope you realize now is a waste) it may not conflict with the IDE controller but with something else. You must designate a free interupt (IRQ) for this beast. I don't know about you, but I don't have one to spare. I would also like to add... E. How about Price? The CMS Drives are about the least expensive ones out there. But they offer all of the features of more expensive drives. F. Software? Many backup programs will recognize and use the CMS drive directly. I use Central Point Backup with mine and it works like a charm. You don't need any drivers or TSRs. I hope this helps. Mail me if anyone has any more questions. Robert F. Nee <nee@cf_su20.Sbi.Com> P.S. I am in no way associated with CMS, just a happy customer.
bgeer@javelin.es.com (Bob Geer) (02/13/91)
jdb@reef.cis.ufl.edu (Brian K. W. Hook) writes: > I am interested in the CMS 60MB tape drive (120MB w/compression) > and am wondering: > > A. Since I have two floppies hooked up to an RLL controller right now, > do I need the external drive or do I need the special controller > card? My CMS DJ10 is hooked to a DTC (7820 or 7280 or some such) RLL hard/floppy disk controller with two floppies in my 386-20 clone. (The RLL refers only to the hard disk.) You need firmware vers. 40 or later on the tape drive (some folks say that firmware vers. 39 works, too) to hook it to a two-floppy controller with two floppies. You do need a floppy cable with 3 connectors (of course) -- I added a third connectory to mine pressing it on with pump pliers! > B. What are the benefits of the external drive? I heard that they are > faster. My CMS is an internal drive, so can't answer this one. > C. Is the CMS 60MB any good? Yeah! I like it; lots of folks on Prodigy seem to like it, too. Supporters vastly outnumber detracters. > D. Will it conflict with an IDE controller/disk (Conner CPD3204)? I don't know. -- <> Bob `Bear' Geer <> bgeer@javelin.sim.es.com <> <> Alta-holic <> speaking only for myself, one of my many tricks <> <> Salt Lake City, <> "We must strive to be more than we are, Lal." <> <> Ootah <> -- Cmdr. Data, learning schmaltz <>
mpe@shamash.cdc.com (Mike Ebsen) (02/13/91)
I love your review of the CMS tape archive unit. Could you also comment on any possibility of writing UNIX tar tapes directly from the MS-DOS shell. I would like to backup files on my home PC and read the TAR tape at work on my favorite workstation (like SUN, MIPS, Apollo...). Thank you. mpe@shamash.cdc.com :x
lairdt@mist.CS.ORST.EDU (Tom Laird) (02/13/91)
I have had a CMS 60/120 for over two an a half years now, and have had no problems with it at all. I do have some comments reguarding this idea that a simple three connector cable will allow you to use two floppies and the CMS drive. It will not. There is no guarantee that this cable will actually work in your system. I have the card in my system, and not only does it make transfer faster than the simple cable, but it eliminates conflicts which occur with some hard drive controller cards (such as Perstor ARLL) - the card doesn't cost that much in addition, and if ordered with the external kit, will allow you to move your CMS drive to another system easily. As for the transfer rate, I get 2.5 meg on long backups/restores of 20 megs or more on a tape with no other archives (longer time if others exist). I do not use the compression, since it's slower, creates more wear'n'tear on the dc2000 tapes, and most of the bigger blocks of my files are for my bbs archives (or similar) and they are zipped anyway (which is better compression). I like the drive. It has made collection files very easy, and get rid of piles of disks from my computer area. the only drawback it has now is that I need a drive with bigger capacity and faster throughput to backup my larger drives.
cgordon@vpnet.chi.il.us (gordon hlavenka) (02/13/91)
In article <26853@uflorida.cis.ufl.EDU> jdb@reef.cis.ufl.edu (Brian K. W. Hook) writes: > I am interested in the CMS 60MB tape drive (120MB w/compression) > and am wondering: > > A. Since I have two floppies hooked up to an RLL controller right now, > do I need the external drive or do I need the special controller > card? The drives being sold now by CMS will work on a dual controller with two floppy drives. Some kind of magic with handshaking, I imagine. All you need is a floppy cable with _three_ connectors. > B. What are the benefits of the external drive? I heard that they are > faster. Using the tape adaptor board gives you better throughput. The adapter board is required for the external drive so yes, it's faster. The internal drive will also run faster with the adapter board. > C. Is the CMS 60MB any good? I use it, and I'm satisfied. There are other drives which are faster, have greater capacity, etc. But they aren't in the CMS price range. For me, "Jumbo" is just fine. > D. Will it conflict with an IDE controller/disk (Conner CPD3204)? Probably not. The only conflict I know of is the Seagate ST01/2 controller. The drive will work with these, however you have to turn off "concurrent DMA" which means that your backup times are much longer. (Instead of streaming as it should, the tape has to stop during disk accesses. Then it needs to re- sync in order to write the data. Yecch.) -- I have no connection with CMS. -- ----------------------------------------------------- Gordon S. Hlavenka cgordon@vpnet.chi.il.us Disclaimer: Yeah, I said it. So what?
nee@cf_su14.Sbi.Com (Robert Nee) (02/13/91)
> I love your review of the CMS tape archive unit. Could you also comment > on any possibility of writing UNIX tar tapes directly from the MS-DOS > shell. I would like to backup files on my home PC and read the TAR tape > at work on my favorite workstation (like SUN, MIPS, Apollo...). Thank you. I know that CMS markets drivers for Unix and Xenix machines. This would allow you to use TAR with the CMS tape drives under unix/xenix. I don't know if they offer something similar for MS-DOS but I will look and post if I find something. Robert F. Nee <nee@cf_su20.Sbi.Com>
nee@cf_su14.Salomon.Com (Robert Nee) (02/13/91)
> I do have some comments reguarding this idea > that a simple three connector cable will allow you to use two floppies and > the CMS drive. It will not. There is no guarantee that this cable will > actually work in your system. I have the card in my system, and not > only does it make transfer faster than the simple cable, but it eliminates > conflicts which occur with some hard drive controller cards (such as > Perstor ARLL) - the card doesn't cost that much in addition, and if Perhaps Mr. Laird knows something I do not. I have installed 5 or 6 of these CMS tape drives using the three headed cable. They have gone into various systems, with various controllers: * MFM * ESDI * IDE (on board and on adapter) Since this cable is only connected to the floppy drive interface the type of hard disk should not matter. In fact, one reason I went with the three headed cable was that the interface board would NOT work with my computer. Due to an interupt conflict I was "forced" into this much more elegant solution. The three headed cable DOES work. As far as guarantees, I was given one by the dealer who sold me my first drive. Needless to say I have never had to take him up on it. > As for the transfer rate, I get 2.5 meg on long backups/restores of 20 megs Mr. Lairds transfer rates seem surprisingly low. Considering he uses the "faster" adapter board. I get transfer rates of 3.6 MB per minute on 80 meg backups using Central Point Backup and compression. HMMMMM. Don't knock until/unless you've tried it. Robert F. Nee <nee@cf_su20.Sbi.Com>
bgeer@javelin.es.com (Bob Geer) (02/13/91)
mpe@shamash.cdc.com (Mike Ebsen) writes: >I love your review of the CMS tape archive unit. Could you also comment >on any possibility of writing UNIX tar tapes directly from the MS-DOS >shell. I would like to backup files on my home PC and read the TAR tape >at work on my favorite workstation (like SUN, MIPS, Apollo...). Thank you. Thanks for the complement...the CMS DJ10 uses the small format (2"x3") tape cartridges - I can't remember the official QIC designation. I don't know whether this tape format is used on workstations; all I've seen used is the larger format (4"x5") QIC-24. A call to CMS may get you the answer - their #: voice:(303)669-8000 fax:(303)667-0921 They are located in Loveland, Colorado. -- <> Bob `Bear' Geer <> bgeer@javelin.sim.es.com <> <> Alta-holic <> speaking only for myself, one of my many tricks <> <> Salt Lake City, <> "We must strive to be more than we are, Lal." <> <> Ootah <> -- Cmdr. Data, learning schmaltz <>
lairdt@mist.CS.ORST.EDU (Tom Laird) (02/14/91)
>solution. The three headed cable DOES work. As far as guarantees, I was >given one by the dealer who sold me my first drive. Needless to say I >have never had to take him up on it. > >> As for the transfer rate, I get 2.5 meg on long backups/restores of 20 megs > >Mr. Lairds transfer rates seem surprisingly low. Considering he uses the >"faster" adapter board. I get transfer rates of 3.6 MB per minute on 80 meg >backups using Central Point Backup and compression. HMMMMM. > >Don't knock until/unless you've tried it. > >Robert F. Nee <nee@cf_su20.Sbi.Com> I did state that I do not use compression, so your figure of 3.6MB per minute doesn't contradict my 2.5MB speed. As for the useage of the board, since there are more generic clones now than there were even last month, every system is different. I know that when I tried the supposed cheap fix of the cable, that it wouldn't work on my 386-33 w/10mhz bus. I have never used Central Points backup program, but I have tried to use it. I found that it wouldn't correctly finish then end of a backup when running on my system, so I've only used the supplied tape backup program. I would be interested in talking with someone who has a CMS 150/250 drive, since they are supposed to be able to read 40/120 tapes. Any luck in that area?
mlord@bwdls58.bnr.ca (Mark Lord) (02/14/91)
In article <26853@uflorida.cis.ufl.EDU> jdb@reef.cis.ufl.edu (Brian K. W. Hook) writes: < < I am interested in the CMS 60MB tape drive (120MB w/compression) < and am wondering: < < A. Since I have two floppies hooked up to an RLL controller right now, < do I need the external drive or do I need the special controller < card? I have two floppies and a PERSTOR controller (and previously an MFM controller) and I DO require the special card. Also, I found the drive got too hot and ruined tapes when mounted internally. I suppose my two hard drives might have contributed to this some.. Get the external kit with board from Hard Drives International.. really cheap pricing there. Don't put much faith into the "120MB" with compression. I seldom got better than 15% (but I have lots of ZIP files). I now use PCTOOLS 6.0 with the tape drive instead of the supplied software. Much better. Also gets 20% compression instead of 15%. < B. What are the benefits of the external drive? I heard that they are < faster. Nope. Not unless you have a slow system (non-386) or perhaps maybe if you buy the expensive card with the data compression chip (I wouldn't). < C. Is the CMS 60MB any good? Yes. Much better than floppies, anyway. I have not used other tape drives. -- ___Mark S. Lord__________________________________________ | ..uunet!bnrgate!mlord%bmerh724 | Climb Free Or Die (NH) | | MLORD@BNR.CA Ottawa, Ontario | Personal views only. | |________________________________|________________________|
bgeer@javelin.es.com (Bob Geer) (02/14/91)
mlord@bwdls58.bnr.ca (Mark Lord) writes: >... >I have two floppies and a PERSTOR controller (and previously an MFM controller) >and I DO require the special card.... As I mentioned in my first post on this thread, FIRMWARE VERSION 40 OR LATER (some say 39 or later) eliminates the requirement for the special adapter card. I believe that is a late 1990 release by CMS. Would people who write in about this please list their firmware version? It gets awful confusing if you don't tell the whole story! -- <> Bob `Bear' Geer <> bgeer@javelin.sim.es.com <> <> Alta-holic <> speaking only for myself, one of my many tricks <> <> Salt Lake City, <> "We must strive to be more than we are, Lal." <> <> Ootah <> -- Cmdr. Data, learning schmaltz <>
russw@cs.utexas.edu (Russ Williams) (02/15/91)
In article <175@cf_su20.cf_su10.Sbi.COM> nee@cf_su14.Salomon.Com (Robert Nee) writes: >I get transfer rates of 3.6 MB per minute on 80 meg >backups using Central Point Backup and compression. I'd always heard that all the tape drives used proprietary formats and you were stuck using only the manufacturer's backup program. Is this changing? Does CPBackup support many tape drives? Do other backup programs do this? --Russ
mpe@shamash.cdc.com (Mike Ebsen) (02/15/91)
I would like to know if any of the CMS products available today support TAR style backups rather than using the product's internal formats and backup shells/procedures. Please help!!! mpe@shamash.cdc.com
nee@cf_su14.Salomon.Com (Robert Nee) (02/15/91)
> I'd always heard that all the tape drives used proprietary formats and you > were stuck using only the manufacturer's backup program. Is this changing? > Does CPBackup support many tape drives? Do other backup programs do this? I can't speak for all backup programs but CP Backup does directly support many manufacturer's tape drives. I recall reading about support for Mountain, Irwin and Colorado. I would call them to find out if they support the drives you are interested in. (503) 690-8090. Robert F. Nee <nee@cf_su20.Sbi.Com>