daly@ecs.umass.edu (Bryon Daly, ECE dept, UMass, Amherst) (02/06/91)
Hello everyone, Does anyone out there know if the Micronics 486/25 motherboard takes advantage of the 486 burst mode? I am upgrading my 386/33 to 486/25 at Gateway (if you work it out, the 486/25 is MUCH more cost effective), but the Gateway people can't seem to give me a straight answer to this question. Or the question of how much memory I can put on the board. Do any of you have any answers? The Gateway tech support has fallen apart the past few weeks...it's very hard to get through, and the tech support people don't seem as knowledgeable as the ones I have talked to previously (new staff?). Neither tech rep knew what the 486 burst mode was. After I explained, one said that I needed an EISA board for that (she must have been thinking of the EISA bus burst mode). The tech rep I asked about how expandable the memory was said 4MB max. (The system I ordered has 8MB on board). It seems that Gateway's burst of popularity, coupled with dirt cheap prices, has placed strain on their previously-good tech support. Well, if anyone can answer my questions, I would appreciate it. Thanks, Bryon Daly daly@ecs.umass.edu
acook@athena.mit.edu (Andrew R Cook) (02/06/91)
In article <12328.27af2b88@ecs.umass.edu>, daly@ecs.umass.edu (Bryon Daly, ECE dept, UMass, Amherst) writes: |> Hello everyone, |> |> Does anyone out there know if the Micronics 486/25 motherboard takes advantage |> of the 486 burst mode? I am upgrading my 386/33 to 486/25 at Gateway (if you |> work it out, the 486/25 is MUCH more cost effective), but the Gateway people |> can't seem to give me a straight answer to this question. Or the question of |> how much memory I can put on the board. Do any of you have any answers? |> |> The Gateway tech support has fallen apart the past few weeks...it's very hard |> to get through, and the tech support people don't seem as knowledgeable as the |> ones I have talked to previously (new staff?). Neither tech rep knew what |> the 486 burst mode was. After I explained, one said that I needed an EISA |> board for that (she must have been thinking of the EISA bus burst mode). The |> tech rep I asked about how expandable the memory was said 4MB max. (The system |> I ordered has 8MB on board). |> |> It seems that Gateway's burst of popularity, coupled with dirt cheap prices, |> has placed strain on their previously-good tech support. |> |> Well, if anyone can answer my questions, I would appreciate it. |> |> Thanks, |> Bryon Daly |> daly@ecs.umass.edu If they can't even tell you how much memory you can put on the Motherboard, let alone use of burst mode, you are buying from the wrong company. If they can't tell you about basic things like memory capacity, what else don't they know? If their tech support can't figure out how much memory the board can hold, how can you expect they could fix a *real* problem ? Andy
keller@umd5.umd.edu (Nick Keller) (02/07/91)
In article <12328.27af2b88@ecs.umass.edu> daly@ecs.umass.edu (Bryon Daly, ECE dept, UMass, Amherst) writes: > >Does anyone out there know if the Micronics 486/25 motherboard takes advantage >of the 486 burst mode? I am upgrading my 386/33 to 486/25 at Gateway (if you >work it out, the 486/25 is MUCH more cost effective), but the Gateway people >can't seem to give me a straight answer to this question. Or the question of >how much memory I can put on the board. Do any of you have any answers? Iv'e got a Gateway 486/25, Don't know about the burst mode. The motherboard can hold 16 MB. >It seems that Gateway's burst of popularity, coupled with dirt cheap prices, >has placed strain on their previously-good tech support. > I also had a difficult time getting hold of the tech support, finally sent a letter to the president & manager of tech support. I was told that they had been swamped by orders & are hiring new people to take care of the load. The 486/25 is a nice box. Cheap too.
kaleb@thyme.jpl.nasa.gov (Kaleb Keithley) (02/07/91)
In article <7978@umd5.umd.edu> keller@umd5.umd.edu (Nick Keller) writes: >Iv'e got a Gateway 486/25, Don't know about the burst mode. The motherboard >can hold 16 MB. > >The 486/25 is a nice box. Cheap too. Is cheap really something anyone wants in any motherboard? Inexpensive maybe, but certainly not cheap. :-) -- Kaleb Keithley kaleb@thyme.jpl.nasa.gov As of right now, I'm in charge here now... Alexander Haig. Voodoo Economics, that's what it is, voodoo economics. George Bush
herbie@bruce.cs.monash.OZ.AU (Andrew Herbert) (02/08/91)
I'm uncertain about whether burst mode is used on Micronics boards, and am not even sure whether it's relevant in a 486 system with a secondary cache - any *informed* comment on this? Here are some details regarding Micronics boards, anyhow: 80486-25/AT: 8 ISA slots, 8.3 MHz bus speed 64k/128k/256kB secondary direct-mapped cache 16 MB maximum on-board RAM, using 1MBx9 80ns SIMMs Phoenix 486 BIOS, with bios shadowing in RAM Landmark v1.14 - 114.1 MHZ Power Meter v1.3 MIPS - 11.1 Power Meter v1.3 kWhetstones - 2303 The 486-25/EISA and 486-33/EISA boards can use 4MB SIMMS for 64 MB on-board (as well as 1 MB SIMMS for 16 MB), but then who wants to pay for 4 MB SIMMS with 1 MB ones so much cheaper? 486-25/EISA: LM 113.8, MIPS 11.1, kW 2282 486-33/EISA: LM 145.8, MIPS 14.5, kW 3010 Note: performance figures (as with other specs) are from the Micronics brochure, so make of them what you will (personally, I'd be inclined to believe them)... -- Andrew Herbert herbie@bruce.cs.monash.edu.au
bob@ns.UUCP (Bob Mathias) (02/09/91)
In article <1991Feb6.175322.20521@thyme.jpl.nasa.gov> kaleb@thyme.jpl.nasa.gov (Kaleb Keithley) writes: >Is cheap really something anyone wants in any motherboard? Inexpensive >maybe, but certainly not cheap. :-) And marketing types would use the term cost effective instead of cheap. :-) -- Bob Mathias uucp: ...!uunet!ccicpg!uis-oc!ns.UUCP!bob Unisys Corporation voice: (714) 727-0323 A and V Series Systems Engineering fax: (714) 727-0350 Irvine, California
smsmith@hpuxa.ircc.ohio-state.edu (Stephen M. Smith) (02/19/91)
herbie@bruce.cs.monash.OZ.AU (Andrew Herbert) writes: >I'm uncertain about whether burst mode is used on Micronics boards, and am >not even sure whether it's relevant in a 486 system with a secondary cache - >any *informed* comment on this? >Andrew Herbert >herbie@bruce.cs.monash.edu.au I talked with Gateway last Friday and they assured me that the Micronics i486 MB DOES have burst mode capability. Gateway uses the Micronics 486 board in their system. Of course I will ask them again to be sure before I purchase. ;) Stephen M. Smith \ + / <smsmith@hpuxa. \+++++/ " #*&<-[89s]*(k#$@-_=//a2$]'+=.(2_&*%>,,@ ircc.ohio-state. \ + / {7%*@,..":27g)-=,#*:.#,/6&1*.4-,l@#9:-) " edu> \ + / BTW, WYSInaWYG \ + / --witty.saying.ARC
ejy@cbnewsi.att.com (eugene.yurek) (02/19/91)
From article <3658@bruce.cs.monash.OZ.AU>, by herbie@bruce.cs.monash.OZ.AU (Andrew Herbert): > > ... > (as well as 1 MB SIMMS for 16 MB), but then who wants to pay for 4 MB SIMMS > with 1 MB ones so much cheaper? > Last time I checked (a week or so ago), the price/megabyte of 4MB SIMMS was actually a little less than the equivalent in 1MB SIMMS. I suspect that you will see the price of 1MB SIMMS rise a little more, and the price of 4MB SIMMS drop a lot, making them even less per megabyte. Remember, when the 4MB SIMM came out, they were in the $300 range (at least when I checked price). They are now under $200.00 a pop (read <$50.00/MB). 1MB SIMMS are currently just about $50.00 each. -- Eugene J. Yurek Internet: ejy@honasa.att.com AT&T Bell Laboratories UUCP: ...!att!honasa!ejy Holmdel, NJ Voice: (201) 949-3753
garyt@ios.Convergent.COM (Gary Tse) (02/19/91)
herbie@bruce.cs.monash.OZ.AU (Andrew Herbert) writes:
- I'm uncertain about whether burst mode is used on Micronics boards, and am
- not even sure whether it's relevant in a 486 system with a secondary cache -
- any *informed* comment on this?
Well, it will take hundreds of nanoseconds to fetch a new cache line
from memory. 3 extra clocks from not bursting is no big deal when
you're already willing to pay that kind of penalty for a cache line.
With a second level cache, it will take (if you're reasonably clever
with your design) no wait states on the critical word. Then the 3
non-burst clocks start eating seriously into your cache line fill
time.
So in a manner of speaking bursting is not important in a i486 system
without a second level cache. But you should remember to say this in
the same breath as you say performance really isn't all that important
in an i486 system.
--
Gary Tse, garyt@ios.Convergent.COM || tse@soda.Berkeley.EDU
"Computers are like Old Testament gods; lots of rules and no mercy."dlow@pollux.svale.hp.com (Danny Low) (02/23/91)
>I'm uncertain about whether burst mode is used on Micronics boards, and am >not even sure whether it's relevant in a 486 system with a secondary cache - >any *informed* comment on this? If you implement the burst mode memory controller so it also works on the secondary cache memory, you get burst mode access to the cache which is faster than regular access to the cache. The difference is significant. Danny Low "Question Authority and the Authorities will question You" Valley of Hearts Delight, Silicon Valley HP CPCD dlow@pollux.svale.hp.com
davidsen@sixhub.UUCP (Wm E. Davidsen Jr) (02/24/91)
In article <3658@bruce.cs.monash.OZ.AU> herbie@bruce.cs.monash.OZ.AU (Andrew Herbert) writes: | I'm uncertain about whether burst mode is used on Micronics boards, and am | not even sure whether it's relevant in a 486 system with a secondary cache - | any *informed* comment on this? I have some benchmarks from A.I.R showing that a motherboard with burstmode benefits very little from external cache, maybe 10%. Since they sell boards both ways, I can't see that they are trying to push their system without cache. I did try disabling the external cache on a system we were testing at work, but I don't remember which m.b. it was using. The effect was measurable but not noticable. A system needs burst mode all the way from the memory to the CPU to get full benefit, just burst mode between the CPU and external cache doesn't make much sense. I don't know if this kludge is still offered by any vendor. -- bill davidsen - davidsen@sixhub.uucp (uunet!crdgw1!sixhub!davidsen) sysop *IX BBS and Public Access UNIX moderator of comp.binaries.ibm.pc and 80386 mailing list "Stupidity, like virtue, is its own reward" -me
davidsen@sixhub.UUCP (Wm E. Davidsen Jr) (02/24/91)
In article <1991Feb18.182458.17854@cbnewsi.att.com> ejy@cbnewsi.att.com (eugene.yurek) writes: | Remember, when | the 4MB SIMM came out, they were in the $300 range (at least when I checked | price). They are now under $200.00 a pop (read <$50.00/MB). 1MB SIMMS are | currently just about $50.00 each. You are getting your 4MB a lot cheaper than I see them (best I see is about $225), and paying a lot more for you SIMMs. I bought one batch for $41.50, most recently 8MB at $42.50 ($43 advertised, I haggled). -- bill davidsen - davidsen@sixhub.uucp (uunet!crdgw1!sixhub!davidsen) sysop *IX BBS and Public Access UNIX moderator of comp.binaries.ibm.pc and 80386 mailing list "Stupidity, like virtue, is its own reward" -me