[comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware] Conner 200M IDE drive

hdrw@ibmpcug.co.uk (Howard Winter) (04/01/91)

I have been given a number of recommendations to go for the Conner
CP3204 200M IDE disk drive as a good way to upgrade my machine.
Before I order it, a couple of questions:

1. I've seen it advertised as 15mSec in US adverts, but 19mSec
from the only English firm I've seen advertising it.  What is the 
correct access time, and is this the TRUE speed, or only apparent due
to the controller hiding the actual head/track/sector configuration ?

2. What is the achievable data-transfer rate ?  I have tripped up on 
this before, when I bought an ST296N, only to find it cannot be formatted
at better than 3:1 in my machine, so limiting it to 300K/Sec.
I am hoping for about 1M/Sec from the Conner.  Is this possible ?
Are there any implications (such as processor or AT Bus bottleneck, or 
anything else like that) ?

3. Am I really getting the best value for money ?  How does this
drive compare with the ST2139A, which has similar basic spec. (~200M,
15mS) ?

4.  Has anyone got Conner's phone/fax number, so I can request data
sheets from them (I have been going on adverts and dealers' words
so far) ?

Thanks in anticipation,
Howard.
-- 
Automatic Disclaimer:
The views expressed above are those of the author alone and may not
represent the views of the IBM PC User Group.
-- 
hdrw@ibmpcug.Co.UK     Howard Winter     0W21'  51N43'

john@jwt.UUCP (John Temples) (04/03/91)

In article <1991Mar31.162532.9509@ibmpcug.co.uk> hdrw@ibmpcug.co.uk (Howard Winter) writes:
>2. What is the achievable data-transfer rate ?

I've used the CP3204 under both DOS and UNIX, and the transfer rate was
pathetic.  I/O benchmarks (ones that do more than just read the same
64K over and over) showed between 80 and 150 KB/sec read and write
rates.  Even worse than 1:1 ST-506/MFM.  I suspect the controller on
the drive isn't fast enough to run at 1:1 interleave, but I don't have
the appropriate software to reformat it and find out.  I would love to
hear about someone's experiences after reformatting one of these to a 
looser interleave.

>I am hoping for about 1M/Sec from the Conner.  Is this possible ?

Sure, if your only application is Coretest.  I'm starting to suspect
people have been wooed by the small, quiet packaging of IDE, its fast
seek times, cheap interface cards, easy cabling, and misleading
Coretest results.  I'm starting to suspect it's a well packaged, well
marketed performance dog.

I bought a 15 MHz ESDI drive, and it absolutely blows the Conner away.
I won't recommend another IDE drive until I see them show me respectable
transfer rates.
-- 
John W. Temples -- john@jwt.UUCP (uunet!jwt!john)

phr@lightning.Berkeley.EDU (Paul Rubin) (04/03/91)

In article <1991Apr3.035310.11481@jwt.UUCP> john@jwt.UUCP (John Temples) writes:

   Path: agate!bionet!uwm.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!samsung!uunet!jwt!john
   From: john@jwt.UUCP (John Temples)
   Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware,connect.audit
   Date: 3 Apr 91 03:53:10 GMT
   References: <1991Mar31.162532.9509@ibmpcug.co.uk>
   Organization: Private System -- Orlando, FL
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   In article <1991Mar31.162532.9509@ibmpcug.co.uk> hdrw@ibmpcug.co.uk (Howard Winter) writes:
   >2. What is the achievable data-transfer rate ?

   I've used the CP3204 under both DOS and UNIX, and the transfer rate was
   pathetic.  I/O benchmarks (ones that do more than just read the same
   64K over and over) showed between 80 and 150 KB/sec read and write
   rates.  Even worse than 1:1 ST-506/MFM.  I suspect the controller on
   the drive isn't fast enough to run at 1:1 interleave, but I don't have
   the appropriate software to reformat it and find out. ...

Maybe your cpu isn't fast enough.  I get 645k/sec from my CP3204 (1:1
interleave) on a 25MHz cacheless 386dx (Norton sysinfo benchmark).  It
seems pretty fast in practice, too, subjectively, but I don't have any
other measurements.  A friend of mine has measured 1.1MB/sec from a
similar (non-Conner) 200MB drive on a 486-33 system.  The PC-AT bus is
16 bits wide and runs at 8 MHz (even for faster cpus), so 2 MB/sec is
the upper bound on the transfer speed for any 16-bit controller.

I am very happy with my IDE CP3204.

tinyguy@cs.mcgill.ca (Yeo-Hoon BAE) (04/03/91)

In article <1991Apr3.035310.11481@jwt.UUCP> john@jwt.UUCP (John Temples) writes:

>In article <1991Mar31.162532.9509@ibmpcug.co.uk> hdrw@ibmpcug.co.uk (Howard Winter) writes:
>>2. What is the achievable data-transfer rate ?
>
>I've used the CP3204 under both DOS and UNIX, and the transfer rate was
>looser interleave.
>
>>I am hoping for about 1M/Sec from the Conner.  Is this possible ?
>
>-- 
>John W. Temples -- john@jwt.UUCP (uunet!jwt!john)


I have used the 105Meg version of Conners SCSI drive, and although I'm
running it on Amiga with DMA controller, it gives roughly 600-750k/s
depending on the environment... I'm sure 200Megger is faster, given
the right controller...



-TG

john@jwt.UUCP (John Temples) (04/04/91)

In article <PHR.91Apr3023701@lightning.Berkeley.EDU> phr@lightning.Berkeley.EDU (Paul Rubin) writes:
>Maybe your cpu isn't fast enough.

I tried it on a non-cached 386/20 and a cached 386/33 with the same
results.

>I get 645k/sec from my CP3204 (Norton sysinfo benchmark).

What exactly does the Norton benchmark do?  Did you have any software
cacheing enabled when you ran it?  I do find it interesting that the
result obtained by Norton is nearly 50% slower than what Coretest
quotes, though.

>A friend of mine has measured 1.1MB/sec from a similar (non-Conner)
>200MB drive on a 486-33 system.

What benchmark was used to measure this transfer rate?
-- 
John W. Temples -- john@jwt.UUCP (uunet!jwt!john)

john@jwt.UUCP (John Temples) (04/04/91)

In article <1991Apr3.113533.1777@cs.mcgill.ca> tinyguy@cs.mcgill.ca (Yeo-Hoon BAE) writes:
>I have used the 105Meg version of Conners SCSI drive, and although I'm
>running it on Amiga with DMA controller, it gives roughly 600-750k/s

How was this transfer rate measured?  In any event, it can't be assumed
that the transfer rate of a SCSI version of the drive would have any
bearing whatsoever on the IDE version.
-- 
John W. Temples -- john@jwt.UUCP (uunet!jwt!john)

tinyguy@cs.mcgill.ca (Yeo-Hoon BAE) (04/04/91)

In article <1991Apr4.040715.13946@jwt.UUCP> john@jwt.UUCP (John Temples) writes:
>In article <1991Apr3.113533.1777@cs.mcgill.ca> tinyguy@cs.mcgill.ca (Yeo-Hoon BAE) writes:
>>I have used the 105Meg version of Conners SCSI drive, and although I'm
>>running it on Amiga with DMA controller, it gives roughly 600-750k/s
>
>How was this transfer rate measured?  In any event, it can't be assumed
>that the transfer rate of a SCSI version of the drive would have any
>bearing whatsoever on the IDE version.
>-- 
>John W. Temples -- john@jwt.UUCP (uunet!jwt!john)


The transfer rate was measured with a program called DiskSpeed which is
a common program used on Amiga System to measure HD speed. It gives 
read/write speed as well as no. of seeks/create/delete and scans per
second. In general, it seems pretty accurate, and I sware, I didn't
use any software cache program... Infact, cache shouldn't affect the
overall tansfer speed anyway, it does affect the no. of seeks/delete etc
though...


-TG

phr@tsunami.Berkeley.EDU (Paul Rubin) (04/05/91)

In article <1991Apr4.040424.13848@jwt.UUCP> john@jwt.UUCP (John Temples) writes:
>In article <PHR.91Apr3023701@lightning.Berkeley.EDU> phr@lightning.Berkeley.EDU (Paul Rubin) writes:
>
>>I get 645k/sec from my CP3204 (Norton sysinfo benchmark).
>
>What exactly does the Norton benchmark do?  Did you have any software
>cacheing enabled when you ran it?  I do find it interesting that the
>result obtained by Norton is nearly 50% slower than what Coretest
>quotes, though.

I don't know what the Norton benchmark does, but the disk makes a lot
of noise while the benchmark is running, so it can't be simply reading
from the on-drive cache repeatedly.  I did not have any software
caching enabled.

Throughput on a Unix system using this same drive is comparable:
around 150k/sec to copy one large file to another using "dd".  Because
both the old file is being read and the new one being written, and
because the Unix file system imposes some overhead and because the
files are not necessarily contiguous on the disk, I think this is
consistent with the 645k/sec transfer speed from the disk.

>>A friend of mine has measured 1.1MB/sec from a similar (non-Conner)
>>200MB drive on a 486-33 system.
>
>What benchmark was used to measure this transfer rate?

Norton sysinfo again.