ray@uvmark.uucp (Ray Daignault) (05/31/91)
I have just purchased a 386sx computer with a 100MB IDE hard drive. However, from an old XT at home I have 2 Seagate 251-1 MFM hard drives. I would like to add the Seagate drives to my system for secondary storage. Does anyone know if it is possible to combien both an MFM and IDE disk drive on the same system? The PC I purchased is using the AWARD bios with the IDE disk controller on the motherboard. Thanks in Advance! -- Raymond Daignault ...uunet!merk!uvmark!ray
wlsmith@valve.heart.rri.uwo.ca (Wayne L. Smith) (05/31/91)
In article <1991May30.181823.55145@uvmark.uucp> ray@uvmark.uucp (Ray Daignault) writes: > >I have just purchased a 386sx computer with a 100MB IDE hard drive. However, >from an old XT at home I have 2 Seagate 251-1 MFM hard drives. I would like >to add the Seagate drives to my system for secondary storage. > > Does anyone know if it is possible to combien both an MFM and IDE disk >drive on the same system? The PC I purchased is using the AWARD bios with >the IDE disk controller on the motherboard. I don't see how. You can set up your bios info about both drives all right, but either the MFM and IDE/drive controllers will conflict with each other, or the MFM controller will try to access the second MFM drive, which isin't there. You may get around this if you can set either the the IDE or the MFM controller to respond as a secondary controller. I am in the same situation, and if I can dig up the specs for my mfm controller (which is integrated into my Western Digital mother board), I'll try it.
draper@buster.cps.msu.edu (Patrick J Draper) (06/02/91)
>> Does anyone know if it is possible to combien both an MFM and IDE disk >>drive on the same system? The PC I purchased is using the AWARD bios with >>the IDE disk controller on the motherboard. > >I don't see how. You can set up your bios info about both drives all right, >but either the MFM and IDE/drive controllers will conflict with each other, >or the MFM controller will try to access the second MFM drive, which isin't >there. You may get around this if you can set either the the IDE or the >MFM controller to respond as a secondary controller. I am in the same >situation, and if I can dig up the specs for my mfm controller (which is >integrated into my Western Digital mother board), I'll try it. Yes, you can. Make the IDE secondary to the MFM drive, and install a jumper on the IDE controller to disable the floppy controller (if it has one) and switch the bios mapping location to an alternate address. Set the BIOS type on the primary MFM drive to what it's supposed to be, and the second hard disk bios setting to NOT INSTALLED. It also requires that there is ONE partition on the MFM drive, as the IDE will take the letters D:, E:, etc. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Patrick Draper disclaimer --- "I can't control my fingers, cps.msu.edu I can't control my toes." draper@cps.msu.edu --Ramones ------------------------------------------------------------------------
wlsmith@valve.heart.rri.uwo.ca (Wayne L. Smith) (06/03/91)
In article <1991Jun2.045900.15627@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> draper@buster.cps.msu.edu (Patrick J Draper) writes: >Set >the BIOS type on the primary MFM drive to what it's supposed to be, and >the second hard disk bios setting to NOT INSTALLED. I thought that IDE controllers needed the bios info. If you set the 2'nd drive bios info to -NOT INSTALLED-, how does the IDE controller/drive know what's going on? How does the computer know what's going on? >It also requires that there is ONE partition on the MFM drive, as the >IDE will take the letters D:, E:, etc. When I had an RLL / SCSI combo going, I found that the partitions were interleaved, ie the SCSI responded with C, E, G... and the RLL had the D, F, etc. Just what determined that (bios or DOS or something else)?
eehamid@cybaswan.UUCP (Abu Usamah) (06/03/91)
Hi,
Is it possible, to make the new IDE drive as the primary drive? Coz
I think, the IDE is a faster drive and so will improve performance if it is
the boot-drive! One can use the 2nd MFM drive as storage space. What say you!
----
A.H. Idros
JANET: eehamid@uk.ac.swan.pyr | Voice: +44 0792 205678 ext 4698
UUCP : eehamid@pyr.swan.ac.uk@ukc.uucp | Fax : +44 0792 295686
BITNET: eehamid%pyr.swan.ac.uk@UKACRL |
INTERNET: eehamid%pyr.swan.ac.uk@cunyvm.cuny.edu
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
" Who is farther astray then one who follows his whims without guidance from
GOD? "
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++mstr@vipunen.hut.fi (Markus Strand) (06/04/91)
In article <3224@ria.ccs.uwo.ca> wlsmith@valve.heart.rri.uwo.ca (Wayne L. Smith) writes: >When I had an RLL / SCSI combo going, I found that the partitions were >interleaved, ie the SCSI responded with C, E, G... and the RLL had the >D, F, etc. Just what determined that (bios or DOS or something else)? The drive letters are determined by DOS. If you set the first partition of the second drive as primary DOS it will be D:, but if it is exteded DOS it will come after the first drives partitions. Markus Strand mstr@vipunen.hut.fi
jsims@vuse.vanderbilt.edu (J. Robert Sims) (06/04/91)
In article <3224@ria.ccs.uwo.ca> wlsmith@valve.heart.rri.uwo.ca (Wayne L. Smith) writes: >In article <1991Jun2.045900.15627@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> draper@buster.cps.msu.edu (Patrick J Draper) writes: >>Set >>the BIOS type on the primary MFM drive to what it's supposed to be, and >>the second hard disk bios setting to NOT INSTALLED. > >I thought that IDE controllers needed the bios info. If you set the 2'nd >drive bios info to -NOT INSTALLED-, how does the IDE controller/drive >know what's going on? How does the computer know what's going on? > >>It also requires that there is ONE partition on the MFM drive, as the >>IDE will take the letters D:, E:, etc. > >When I had an RLL / SCSI combo going, I found that the partitions were >interleaved, ie the SCSI responded with C, E, G... and the RLL had the >D, F, etc. Just what determined that (bios or DOS or something else)? The documentation I've seen said that the 1st drive would be identified by C, E, F, G, ... and the second drive would be D, H, I, J..., not interleaved. This sort of makes sense; the DOS partitions comes first, and then the extended partitions. Each extended partition's drives are listed together. Rob
draper@buster.cps.msu.edu (Patrick J Draper) (06/04/91)
In article <3224@ria.ccs.uwo.ca> wlsmith@valve.heart.rri.uwo.ca (Wayne L. Smith) writes: >In article <1991Jun2.045900.15627@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> draper@buster.cps.msu.edu (Patrick J Draper) writes: >>Set >>the BIOS type on the primary MFM drive to what it's supposed to be, and >>the second hard disk bios setting to NOT INSTALLED. > >I thought that IDE controllers needed the bios info. If you set the 2'nd >drive bios info to -NOT INSTALLED-, how does the IDE controller/drive >know what's going on? How does the computer know what's going on? The IDE drive controller has its own BIOS on board. It doesn't need to know anything about the PC's BIOS. >>It also requires that there is ONE partition on the MFM drive, as the >>IDE will take the letters D:, E:, etc. > >When I had an RLL / SCSI combo going, I found that the partitions were >interleaved, ie the SCSI responded with C, E, G... and the RLL had the >D, F, etc. Just what determined that (bios or DOS or something else)? > > I don't know why they were interleaved. I've never played with an RLL SCSI combo. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Patrick Draper disclaimer --- "I can't control my fingers, cps.msu.edu I can't control my toes." draper@cps.msu.edu --Ramones ------------------------------------------------------------------------
wlsmith@valve.heart.rri.uwo.ca (Wayne L. Smith) (06/04/91)
>In article <3224@ria.ccs.uwo.ca> Patrick Draper writes: >The IDE drive controller has its own BIOS on board. It doesn't need to >know anything about the PC's BIOS. If an IDE drive has it's own bios (and it is sophisticated enough to have a built in controller/rom), then this `bios' is `local' to the drive and is not accessible by the pc (at least I can't find it). The PC`s bios talks to the drive through the interface card (for IDE drives). For SCSI and some MFM/RLL controllers, the bios on the controller shoe- horns itself into pc memory, and dos et all talks to the drive through the bios on the controller (the pc's hard drive bios routines are not used). I think I've got this right ;-i ...
hdrw@ibmpcug.co.uk (Howard Winter) (06/04/91)
My experience of mixing drive types: MFM as drive 0, SCSI as drive 1. SCSI controller is ST01, drive is ST296N and both drives are partitioned using Ontrack's Disk Manager. Drive 0 gets the C: partition, then drive 1 gets D:, then the rest of drive 0, then the rest of drive 1, thus: Dr0... Dr1... C: D: E: G: F: H: which is confusing, but that's the way DM does it. I had no problems installing, the BIOS on the ST01 copes with being the second drive without the PC BIOS knowing about it (the setup is NOT INSTALLED for the second drive). On power up, the SCSI BIOS waits for the drive to come ready, and reports: 1 SCSI drive found. The booting then continues. The real fun starts when the ST296 sticks (see separate thread). Then it reports no drive found, and the system boots with drives C,D,E on the first disk. BTW, I'm not able to reformat the SCSI drive, as it reports 'drive reset error' but it's been running for 12+ months, so I'll leave it alone. Next job: replace the MFM drive with a 200M IDE (Conner). Anyone got any comments on this? Happy computing, folks! Howard. -- Automatic Disclaimer: The views expressed above are those of the author alone and may not represent the views of the IBM PC User Group. -- hdrw@ibmpcug.Co.UK Howard Winter 0W21' 51N43'
ccfac@levels.sait.edu.au (06/04/91)
> When I had an RLL / SCSI combo going, I found that the partitions were > interleaved, ie the SCSI responded with C, E, G... and the RLL had the > D, F, etc. Just what determined that (bios or DOS or something else)? I had the same problem before. To get around it, you will need to re-FDISK your second drive. You will have to remove the primary partition and create the whole second drive extended partition. Then DOS FDISK will assign the correct logical drives to that disk. (i.e. Your first disk will have C: D: E: ...etc and your second should have ..F: G: ...Z: ;-) Good Luck Cheers Francis Chan ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- CCFAC@SAIT.EDU.AU University of South Australia ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
mstr@vipunen.hut.fi (Markus Strand) (06/04/91)
In article <1991Jun3.225932.22140@ibmpcug.co.uk> hdrw@ibmpcug.co.uk (Howard Winter) writes: >My experience of mixing drive types: >MFM as drive 0, SCSI as drive 1. SCSI controller is ST01, drive is ST296N >and both drives are partitioned using Ontrack's Disk Manager. >Drive 0 gets the C: partition, then drive 1 gets D:, then the rest of >drive 0, then the rest of drive 1, thus: > >Dr0... Dr1... >C: D: >E: G: >F: H: >which is confusing, but that's the way DM does it. This happens if the first partition of Dr1 is primary DOS. If you make all partitions on Dr1 extended DOS they come after the extended partitions on Dr0. There are no reasons why Dr1 should have any primary DOS partitions because you can't boot from it. Markus Strand
ronald@robobar.co.uk (Ronald S H Khoo) (06/05/91)
mstr@vipunen.hut.fi (Markus Strand) writes: > There are no reasons why Dr1 should have > any primary DOS partitions because you can't boot from it. I always place a bootable partition on the second drive so that I can switch the drives around and boot from that when the first drive goes down. Don't bother to follow up, I don't read this group :-) -- Ronald Khoo <ronald@robobar.co.uk> +44 81 991 1142 (O) +44 71 229 7741 (H)
brim@cbmvax.commodore.com (Mike Brim - Product Assurance) (06/05/91)
In article <1991Jun3.200840.23282@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> draper@buster.cps.msu.edu (Patrick J Draper) writes: > In article <3224@ria.ccs.uwo.ca> wlsmith@valve.heart.rri.uwo.ca (Wayne L. Smith) writes: > >In article <1991Jun2.045900.15627@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> draper@buster.cps.msu.edu (Patrick J Draper) writes: > >>Set > >>the BIOS type on the primary MFM drive to what it's supposed to be, and > >>the second hard disk bios setting to NOT INSTALLED. > > > >I thought that IDE controllers needed the bios info. If you set the 2'nd > >drive bios info to -NOT INSTALLED-, how does the IDE controller/drive > >know what's going on? How does the computer know what's going on? > > The IDE drive controller has its own BIOS on board. It doesn't need to > know anything about the PC's BIOS. > First of all discussions about IDE drives tend to be very general. IDE drives are simply drives that have all electronics (controller...) embedded on the drive. Most of these drives do use the AT interface and most of these use RLL 2,7 encoding. Someone posted that IDE drives use MMFM encoding, I have never seen this but there may be some drives that use it. As far as IDE drives not using the PC's BIOS (or SETUP): I've worked with over 20 diff types of IDE drives and have never seen one that does not require a drive type to be selected. That doesn't mean one doesn't exists, I just have not seen it. If someone wants to add an IDE (AT interfaced) drive to a system with a ST506 drive/controller, one of the controllers has to be primary and the other secondary. Addresses and IRQ's have to be unique. This is no different then adding two ST506 controllers in a system. The AT interfaced IDE drive looks like a ST506 controller to the system. Since it looks like a ST506 interface, all BIOS rules still apply. -- ******************************************************************************** Disclaimer: I don't speak for my company or myself. Mike Brim | Commodore Electronics Limited PC Analyst - System Evaluation Group | West Chester, PA 19380 Product Assurance | InterNet: brim@cbmvax.commodore.com ********************************************************************************