ajai@sce.carleton.ca (Ajai Sehgal) (09/12/90)
FLAME ON: Yesterday , I tried phoning Borland's so called hotline. After being shunted around my an almost efficient voice messaging system I was put on hold for 30 minutes before deciding that the call to the western U.S. from Ottawa at prime time was going to cost me more than Turbo C++! Wake up Borland, and learn a thing or two form WordPerfect Corp. Ten dollars of good product support is worth a thousand spent on flashy advertising. I wouldn't even mind spending more on the product, as long as I could reach a human in a reasonable amount of time or through an 800 number! As it stands I won't be buying other Borland products until thing improve. FLAME OFF: Ajai.
mjlst3@unix.cis.pitt.edu (Mikes Magik Shoppe) (09/15/90)
In article <ajai.653151471@talos.sce.carleton.ca> ajai@sce.carleton.ca (Ajai Sehgal) writes: >FLAME ON: Various comments about borland's Tech support and a probably mis-informed view of the cost of having enough technical support staff on line all of the time to answer all calls without putting someone on hold deleted... >FLAME OFF: > >Ajai. IMHO it would be better to send such comments directly to Borland Intl. Inc., perhaps they might do something more constructive than hit the n key or flame you... ;-) Michael J. LeWinter My opinion is my own, which is probably just as well. -- All email, no cute messages to mankind : mjl@vms.cis.pitt.edu mjl@pittvms.bitnet
jaa@sppy00.UUCP (Jeff Anderson) (09/15/90)
In article <ajai.653151471@talos.sce.carleton.ca> ajai@sce.carleton.ca (Ajai Sehgal) writes: >FLAME ON: > > Yesterday , I tried phoning Borland's so called hotline. After being >shunted around my an almost efficient voice messaging system I was put on hold >for 30 minutes before deciding that the call to the western U.S. from Ottawa >at prime time was going to cost me more than Turbo C++! Wake up Borland, and >learn a thing or two form WordPerfect Corp. Ten dollars of good product support >is worth a thousand spent on flashy advertising. I wouldn't even mind spending >more on the product, as long as I could reach a human in a reasonable amount >of time or through an 800 number! As it stands I won't be buying other Borland >products until thing improve. > >FLAME OFF: > >Ajai. I have only used the Borland help hotline once. Maybe I got lucky but they were very helpful with me. They answered my call promptly. Most companies want to *charge* for support after a short time period. I had the software for many months. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Jeff Anderson killer!osu-cis!sppy00!jaa Online Computer Library Center (OCLC) unreliable: jaa@sppy00 614-764-6222 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
hardin@hpindda.cup.hp.com (John Hardin) (09/22/90)
ajai@sce.carleton.ca (Ajai Sehgal) writes: > FLAME ON: > > Yesterday , I tried phoning Borland's so called hotline. After being > shunted around my an almost efficient voice messaging system I was put on hold > for 30 minutes before deciding that the call to the western U.S. from Ottawa > at prime time was going to cost me more than Turbo C++! Wake up Borland, and > learn a thing or two form WordPerfect Corp. Ten dollars of good product support > is worth a thousand spent on flashy advertising. I wouldn't even mind spending > more on the product, as long as I could reach a human in a reasonable amount > of time or through an 800 number! As it stands I won't be buying other Borland > products until thing improve. > > FLAME OFF: ---------- I have never used Borland's hotline and make no excuses for however they behaved on it, but I can heartily recommend Borland's support on CompuServe. Borland seems to prefer to give service through CIS whenever possible and they make it easy to get CIS by including an intro offer with each of their products. Borland's support of customers on CIS has been terrific. You get the attention of sysops, other experts paid by Borland to monitor the forums, and sometime's the product developers themselves. You also get the attention of dozens (hundreds? thousands? billions and billions?) of very knowledgable users who are often anxious to help. Seriously, if you are having trouble getting support you might want to give CompuServe a try. I've received help several times over CIS from Microsoft and Datastorm as well as Borland. The answers are pretty prompt, too. It's centralized, so your question doesn't have to migrate out into the universe and the replies migrate back. You can often get help within an hour or two. (BTW, you will be be much happier with CIS if you use TAPCIS as your interface rather than trying to get around using the CIS command set. It will save you money, too.) I am not a CompuServe or Borland employee and have no other reason to recommend their products other than that I am a satisfied customer. Likewise with TAPCIS. John Hardin Hewlett Packard hardin@hpindgh.hp.com
ergo@netcom.UUCP (Isaac Rabinovitch) (09/23/90)
In <51330002@hpindda.cup.hp.com> hardin@hpindda.cup.hp.com (John Hardin) writes: >ajai@sce.carleton.ca (Ajai Sehgal) writes: >> FLAME ON: >> >> Yesterday , I tried phoning Borland's so called hotline. After being >> shunted around my an almost efficient voice messaging system I was put on hold >> for 30 minutes before deciding that the call to the western U.S. from Ottawa >> at prime time was going to cost me more than Turbo C++! Wake up Borland... >I have never used Borland's hotline and make no excuses for however they >behaved on it, but I can heartily recommend Borland's support on CompuServe. >Borland seems to prefer to give service through CIS whenever possible and >they make it easy to get CIS by including an intro offer with each of >their products. Borland's support of customers on CIS has been terrific. Be that as it may, CIS is not a practical solution for many people. I know a guy who accesses it only through TAPCIS during off hours, and still ends up spending $50/month. That seems to be the bare minimum to do any serious participation there. Perhaps some people get their money's worth (though I suspect most CIS users get corporate discounts and/or pass the costs on to their employers), but if a $99 compiler is your main development tool.... GEnie may be an alternative for some. They recently slashed their non-primetime rates, and they also have Borland support. One thing that really bothers me is that Borland will not do support over the net. They claim this is because it's less effective than the conferencing setup on CIS and GEnie, but that doesn't prevent them from doing much the same thing through the Postal Service. I suspect that their arrangement with CIS and GEnie keeps them off the net. -- ergo@netcom.uucp Isaac Rabinovitch {apple,amdahl,claris}!netcom!ergo Silicon Valley, CA Collins's Law: If you can't make a mistake, you can't make anything. Corollaries ("Rabinovitch's Rules of Sane Dialogue"): 1. Everybody who matters is stupid now and then. 2. If I'm being stupid, that's my problem. 3. If my being stupid makes you stupid, that's your problem. 4. If you think you're never stupid, boy are you stupid!
dmurdoch@watstat.waterloo.edu (Duncan Murdoch) (09/24/90)
In article <13696@netcom.UUCP> ergo@netcom.uucp writes: > >Be that as it may, CIS is not a practical solution for many people. >I know a guy who accesses it only through TAPCIS during off hours, and >still ends up spending $50/month. That seems to be the bare minimum >to do any serious participation there. I don't know what you mean by "serious participation", but $50 is about 4 hours at 2400 baud, from what I recall of the connect rates. If you only connect on one day a week and use Tapcis, you probably only need to pay for about 5 or 10 minutes/week of connect time, and you'll easily spend less than $50. I end up spending about $5-10/month CIS charges, and about the same in LD phone charges, for what I'd call less than "serious" participation. (I have to pay LD because I'm not near a local CIS number, and Datapac access is horrible.) I rarely download files: that's where your friend may be running up the big bills. Oh, by the way: Borland does give tech support over the net. Send them an email message (sorry, I forget the address), and they'll treat it as though it was received by mail, if you ask them to and give a return address. It's too slow to be much use, though. I just got a letter in the mail asking for a sample illustrating my problem, and can't remember which problem it was that I was complaining about. >Perhaps some people get their >money's worth (though I suspect most CIS users get corporate discounts >and/or pass the costs on to their employers), but if a $99 compiler is >your main development tool.... I'm not subsidized, and I'd rather not subsidize the people who want to spend a long time on a toll-free line. I like to have the compiler cost $99, not $500. > >ergo@netcom.uucp Isaac Rabinovitch >{apple,amdahl,claris}!netcom!ergo Silicon Valley, CA Duncan Murdoch dmurdoch@watstat.waterloo.edu
chaz@chinet.chi.il.us (Charlie Kestner) (09/24/90)
Re: Talking to Borland via Compuserve. There's NO reason this HAS to cost a lot. All one needs do is e-mail to them at Compuserve. True, you wouldn't have the benefit of reading other's problems/solutions, and wouldn't get THEIR feedback. But, if the issue simply is to get in touch with Borland's people ONLY, the e-mail method would be a good solution.
hardin@hpindda.cup.hp.com (John Hardin) (09/27/90)
ergo@netcom.UUCP (Isaac Rabinovitch) writes: > Be that as it may, CIS is not a practical solution for many people. > I know a guy who accesses it only through TAPCIS during off hours, and > still ends up spending $50/month. That seems to be the bare minimum > to do any serious participation there. Perhaps some people get their > money's worth (though I suspect most CIS users get corporate discounts > and/or pass the costs on to their employers), but if a $99 compiler is > your main development tool.... ---------- Though it's easy to rack up a $50/mo bill for CIS, that is definitely not a minimum for reasonable participation. Try something closer to $15 - $20/mo. If you only use it when you need help, you pay $1.50 per month to keep the service and then whatever it takes to post your complaint and read replies. With TAPCIS this will be about 1 minute (CIS's finest granularity for charges) to post your message and the same to read a reply. At about $12/hr plus $.35 for each connect (I think these are the current charges, but not sure), you can ask a question and check back a few times for replies for less than $2. I agree that CIS is not practical for everyone, but I've found it useful enough for myself that I favor Borland products partly for the easy access to support I get over CIS. BTW, my employer does not help me with my CIS bills and I get no special discount. John Hardin hardin@hpindgh.hp.com
maine@elxsi.dfrf.nasa.gov (Richard Maine) (09/29/90)
ergo@netcom.UUCP (Isaac Rabinovitch) writes: > Be that as it may, CIS is not a practical solution for many people. > I know a guy who accesses it only through TAPCIS during off hours, and > still ends up spending $50/month. That seems to be the bare minimum > to do any serious participation there. Perhaps some people get their > money's worth (though I suspect most CIS users get corporate discounts > and/or pass the costs on to their employers), but if a $99 compiler is > your main development tool.... On 26 Sep 90 22:36:39 GMT, hardin@hpindda.cup.hp.com (John Hardin) said: John> Though it's easy to rack up a $50/mo bill for CIS, that is definitely John> not a minimum for reasonable participation.... John> I agree that CIS is not practical for everyone, but I've found it John> useful enough for myself that I favor Borland products partly for John> the easy access to support I get over CIS. John> BTW, my employer does not help me with my CIS bills and I get no John> special discount. I agree with John on all his points here. Note also that if "a $99 compiler is your main development tool", you should not expect many hours of personalized support. I think the support is excellent for the price, and even compared to products costing five times as much or more. If you think your $99 entitles you to better support than Borland gives, then *I* wouldn't want to sell products to you. Not that I'm in such a business anyway, though I do give away software for free on occasion and then have people demand support - oh, well. :-( By pushing people to use Compuserve for support, I presume that Borland keeps there costs a little lower because of the times that somebody else on Compuserve answers a query, and also because when Borland does post an answer, many people can see it as well as the one who asked the question (unless it is specifically posted privately). -- Richard Maine maine@elxsi.dfrf.nasa.gov [130.134.64.6]
ergo@netcom.UUCP (Isaac Rabinovitch) (10/01/90)
In <51330003@hpindda.cup.hp.com> hardin@hpindda.cup.hp.com (John Hardin) writes: >Though it's easy to rack up a $50/mo bill for CIS, that is definitely >not a minimum for reasonable participation. Try something closer to >$15 - $20/mo. If you only use it when you need help, you pay $1.50 >per month to keep the service and then whatever it takes to post your >complaint and read replies. If you're only going to post complaints and read replies, why bother with CompuServe at all? Borland will respond to written questions via US mail. They'll even respond to email via US Mail. What they won't do is respond to email via email. -- ergo@netcom.uucp Isaac Rabinovitch {apple,amdahl,claris}!netcom!ergo Silicon Valley, CA Collins's Law: If you can't make a mistake, you can't make anything. Corollaries ("Rabinovitch's Rules of Sane Dialogue"): 1. Everybody who matters is stupid now and then. 2. If I'm being stupid, that's my problem. 3. If my being stupid makes you stupid, that's your problem. 4. If you think you're never stupid, boy are you stupid!
ergo@netcom.UUCP (Isaac Rabinovitch) (10/01/90)
In <MAINE.90Sep28113811@altair.dfrf.nasa.gov> maine@elxsi.dfrf.nasa.gov (Richard Maine) writes: >I agree with John [about Borland Tech Support via CIS]. Note also that if >"a $99 compiler is your main development tool", you should not >expect many hours of personalized support. We weren't talking about "many hours of personalized support". The person who started this discussion by griping about Borland TS just wanted a few simple questions answered, but was keep on hold so long his phone bill was costing more than his compiler. I can verify the hold factor -- fortunately, I'm in the same service area as Borland. -- ergo@netcom.uucp Isaac Rabinovitch {apple,amdahl,claris}!netcom!ergo Silicon Valley, CA Collins's Law: If you can't make a mistake, you can't make anything. Corollaries ("Rabinovitch's Rules of Sane Dialogue"): 1. Everybody who matters is stupid now and then. 2. If I'm being stupid, that's my problem. 3. If my being stupid makes you stupid, that's your problem. 4. If you think you're never stupid, boy are you stupid!
hardin@hpindda.cup.hp.com (John Hardin) (10/02/90)
ergo@netcom.UUCP (Isaac Rabinovitch) writes: > If you're only going to post complaints and read replies, why bother > with CompuServe at all? Borland will respond to written questions via > US mail. They'll even respond to email via US Mail. What they won't > do is respond to email via email. -- ANSWER: If you only want the answer to your question this week, I suppose US Mail is fine. The fastest answer I have seen on CIS came in about 90 minutes. I usually just check back the next day to pick up any responses. If this is not important to you, then you are perfectly correct not to pay for it. John Hardin hardin@hpindgh.hp.com
person@plains.NoDak.edu (Brett G. Person) (10/13/90)
I know that on a few occfasions Borland has sent me an email response to something I posted on usenet. So they do at least monitor the net. -- Brett G. Person North Dakota State University uunet!plains!person | person@plains.bitnet | person@plains.nodak.edu