[comp.os.msdos.programmer] Turbo C++ 1.0 vs Microsoft C 6.0

jhl@kira.msu.edu (John Lawitzke) (11/09/90)

Could someone provide me with a comparison between Turbo C++ 1.0 and
Microsoft C 6.0. I don't want to hear: "Turbo is C++ and Microsoft is
not". I would like to hear about there relative merits as straight C
compilers. Also has Codeview changed between C 5.1 and C 6.0?

--
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david@metapyr.UUCP (David Relson) (11/14/90)

Codeview has changed considerably between MSC 5.1 and 6.0.  It is considerably
more powerful, can display more stuff on screen, allows displaying structures 
and following pointers (for example a linked list of structures), can replay
your run history (remembers breakpoints, etc & can restart program and replay
what you have done), can undo (replay to breakpoint previous to last one).
It will also run from extended memory on 286  and 386 machines, leaving much
more room for the program being debugged.

In going from version 2.x to 3.x, Codeview has improved one heck of a lot!!

bcw@rti.rti.org (Bruce Wright) (11/19/90)

In article <1990Nov9.130326.657@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu>, jhl@kira.msu.edu (John Lawitzke) writes:
> Could someone provide me with a comparison between Turbo C++ 1.0 and
> Microsoft C 6.0. I don't want to hear: "Turbo is C++ and Microsoft is
> not". I would like to hear about there relative merits as straight C
> compilers. Also has Codeview changed between C 5.1 and C 6.0?

I can't give a complete comparison of the Borland compilers vs the
Microsoft compilers (I don't use the Borland compilers, for reasons
that will soon become obvious), but I have used the Microsoft C
compiler for quite a while.

The major problem with the Borland compilers from my point of view
is that they don't support Windows.  End of story.  There are rumors
that they may do so "eventually", and it should be possible to kludge
around the problems with copious assembly code, but it's a tremendous
pain and not worth doing it for my purposes.  If this is important to
you, then that may remove Borland from the picture (you might look at
Zortech instead, I've just continued to use the Microsoft C because
of inertia;  I've had it since about C 2.0 or 3.0, I forget which, and
it always seemed easiest to just upgrade the compiler rather than go
with Zortech, but I've heard that the Zortech C++ is pretty good and it 
does do Windows).

Codeview has changed somewhat between C 5.1 and C 6.0, I believe that
it no longer requires such enormous object modules and can live in
extended memory.  But I hardly ever use Codeview anyway, so I'm not
the best person to ask about changes in it.

						Bruce C. Wright

minar@reed.bitnet (Nelson Minar,L08,x640,7776519) (11/21/90)

Rumour has it that Turbo Pascal 6.0 is out, and that it either does Windows
now or is REAL close to doing them...

I've also heard of beta version of Turbo C++ that do Windows code.

I think it is safe to assume that Borland will be there very soon. The more
important question is, why write Windows code? :)

jmann@angmar.sw.stratus.com (Jim Mann) (11/22/90)

In article <15719@reed.UUCP>, minar@reed.bitnet (Nelson
Minar,L08,x640,7776519) writes:

|>I think it is safe to assume that Borland will be there very soon. The more
|>important question is, why write Windows code? :)

Because, like it or not, more and more of the PC world is switching to 
Windows.  Look at the ads from the major mail order houses. They now
make a big deal about which applications are for Windows.  

My question is: will Microsoft or anyone be releasing a scaled-down SDK
(maybe just including the libraries, the linker, and the windows.h include
file) so that those hobbyist among us who want to fool around with writing
code for our PCs because it's fun can write Windows apps. I certainly
can't afford or justify the $300+ dollars for the SDK, just so I 
can play around with Windows.        

Jim Mann
Stratus Computer
jim_mann@es.stratus.com

poffen@sj.ate.slb.com (Russ Poffenberger) (11/22/90)

In article <3197@lectroid.sw.stratus.com> jmann@angmar.sw.stratus.com (Jim Mann) writes:
>In article <15719@reed.UUCP>, minar@reed.bitnet (Nelson
>Minar,L08,x640,7776519) writes:
>
>|>I think it is safe to assume that Borland will be there very soon. The more
>|>important question is, why write Windows code? :)
>
>Because, like it or not, more and more of the PC world is switching to 
>Windows.  Look at the ads from the major mail order houses. They now
>make a big deal about which applications are for Windows.  
>
>My question is: will Microsoft or anyone be releasing a scaled-down SDK
>(maybe just including the libraries, the linker, and the windows.h include
>file) so that those hobbyist among us who want to fool around with writing
>code for our PCs because it's fun can write Windows apps. I certainly
>can't afford or justify the $300+ dollars for the SDK, just so I 
>can play around with Windows.        
>

You would have a hard time doing much with less than you get with the SDK now.

The SDK DOES NOT include a compiler, (or linker if I remember). It does give
you the libraries, resource compiler, and header files. It also has CVW which
is the debugger for windows which you probably need.

Other than that, it has some tools to ease development, perhaps they could be
left out, but they don't constitute the bulk of the SDK price I am sure.


Russ Poffenberger               DOMAIN: poffen@sj.ate.slb.com
Schlumberger Technologies       UUCP:   {uunet,decwrl,amdahl}!sjsca4!poffen
1601 Technology Drive		CIS:	72401,276
San Jose, Ca. 95110             (408)437-5254

jdb@beach.cis.ufl.edu (Brian W.K. Hook) (11/22/90)

From what I understand, the assorted trade presses (ie. InfoWorld and PC Week)
all state that Borland has been demoing near-beta turbo C++ for Windows and
Pascal 6.0 for windows.  Of interest, also, is that they may make an SDK
workalike....I don't see how without infringing copyrights, but it is stated
in the latest PC Week.

Another question...I have heard the Turbo C++ 1.00 is suffering from many minor
bugs....does anyone know what version it is up to and where I can upgrade?

mlord@bwdls58.bnr.ca (Mark Lord) (11/23/90)

In article <25553@uflorida.cis.ufl.EDU> (Brian W.K. Hook) writes:
>
>Another question...I have heard the Turbo C++ 1.00 is suffering from many minor
>bugs....does anyone know what version it is up to and where I can upgrade?

Borland is now shpping TC++ 1.01.  If you own TC++ 1.0, simply call their
technical support and ask for it (FREE!).
-- 
 ___Mark S. Lord__________________________________________
| ..uunet!bnrgate!mlord%bmerh724 | Climb Free Or Die (NH) |
| MLORD@BNR.CA   Ottawa, Ontario | Personal views only.   |
|________________________________|________________________|

joe@proto.COM (Joe Huffman) (11/26/90)

In article <25553@uflorida.cis.ufl.EDU>, jdb@beach.cis.ufl.edu (Brian W.K. Hook) writes:
> From what I understand, the assorted trade presses (ie. InfoWorld and PC Week)
> all state that Borland has been demoing near-beta turbo C++ for Windows and
> Pascal 6.0 for windows.  Of interest, also, is that they may make an SDK

Borland was 'sneak previewing' Turbo Pascal for Windows at COMDEX.  Said that
it would ship sometime in the first half of 1991.  They refused to comment
on when Turbo C++ for Windows would ship.  They did say that they were
committed to supporting Windows and OS/2 but declined to be pinned down on
when.

>Another question...I have heard the Turbo C++ 1.00 is suffering from many minor
>bugs....does anyone know what version it is up to and where I can upgrade?

Doesn't matter what version of Turbo C++ you have, ... you can upgrade to 
Zortech C/C++ by calling 800-848-8408.  Zortech has been shipping a 
Windows and OS/2 compatiable C++ compiler for several months now.  And 
with a '.EDU' in your email address you qualify for a educational
discount.

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joe@proto.COM (Joe Huffman) (11/29/90)

In article <1469@proto.COM>, I wrote:

> Doesn't matter what version of Turbo C++ you have, ... you can upgrade to 
> Zortech C/C++ by calling 800-848-8408.  Zortech has been shipping a 
> Windows and OS/2 compatiable C++ compiler for several months now.  And 
> with a '.EDU' in your email address you qualify for a educational
> discount.

I got a call from our (Zortech) sales manager asking if I knew something
she didn't (bit of sarcasm detected) about discounts for the compiler.
It turns out that the phones have been very busy with people wanting to
trade in their Borland compiler to get a discount on the Zortech compiler.
That's not what I intended to imply with my message.  I meant that you 
could get a compiler that does a lot of the things that you only wish
the Turbo C/C++ compiler did by buying the Zortech compiler (upgrade 
from the inferior Borland product to the superior Zortech product -- so to
speak).  

Zortech does not currently have a discount for you if you currently own
the Borland product.  Sorry.

Current educational discount prices are $75.00 for compiler only, $200.00
for development system (debugger, compiler, C++ tools -- a class library,
plus source code for the runtime library -- Flash Graphics library source
available separately).  Site licenses are available.  Call for details.

-- 
joe@proto.com
FAX: 208-263-8772