Robert_Salesas@mindlink.UUCP (Robert Salesas) (02/07/91)
Is there such a thing as a 16 bit MDA? Or can you put the card in someway that you still access the vga at 16 bits? Rob
jdb@reef.cis.ufl.edu (Brian K. W. Hook) (02/07/91)
I am contemplating getting a monchrome monitor and card to supplement my VGA card and monitor for use with Turbo Debugger....anyone have any experience doing so? Is it worth the expense? Thanks. Brian
nelson@sun.soe.clarkson.edu (Russ Nelson) (02/08/91)
In article <26754@uflorida.cis.ufl.EDU> jdb@reef.cis.ufl.edu (Brian K. W. Hook) writes:
I am contemplating getting a monchrome monitor and card to supplement my
VGA card and monitor for use with Turbo Debugger....anyone have any
experience doing so? Is it worth the expense? Thanks.
Yes, it should only cost you $100. But be aware that putting an 8-bit
card into the same double-segment (B000->CFFF) as a 16-bit card will cause
the 16-bit card to be accessed 8 bits at a time. In other words, your
16-bit VGA will act like an 8-bit VGA.
--
--russ <nelson@clutx.clarkson.edu> Humble Quaker, and damned proud of it.
It's better to get mugged than to live a life of fear -- Freeman Dyson
I joined the League for Programming Freedom, and I hope you'll join too.jdb@reef.cis.ufl.edu (Brian K. W. Hook) (02/08/91)
In article <NELSON.91Feb7124258@sun.clarkson.edu> nelson@clutx.clarkson.edu (aka NELSON@CLUTX.BITNET) writes: >Yes, it should only cost you $100. But be aware that putting an 8-bit >card into the same double-segment (B000->CFFF) as a 16-bit card will cause >the 16-bit card to be accessed 8 bits at a time. In other words, your >16-bit VGA will act like an 8-bit VGA. That is absolutely horrid. So all my Windows applications means that while this here card is installed, I will be moving at HALF SPEED?! This doesn't seem very realistically cool, know what I mean? Is there a way around this? I can't afford that kind of io bottleneck (33mhz w/8MB going through display at 8-bits is not very fun).....any info to circumvent said atrocity would be appreciated. Brian
mcastle@mcs213f.cs.umr.edu (Mike Castle {Nexus}) (02/08/91)
In article <26775@uflorida.cis.ufl.EDU> jdb@reef.cis.ufl.edu (Brian K. W. Hook) writes: >That is absolutely horrid. So all my Windows applications means that while >this here card is installed, I will be moving at HALF SPEED?! This doesn't >seem very realistically cool, know what I mean? Is there a way around >this? I can't afford that kind of io bottleneck (33mhz w/8MB going through >display at 8-bits is not very fun).....any info to circumvent said >atrocity would be appreciated. Actually, I don't *think* you would notice any difference. I remember reading an article in either PC Magazine or PC/World around October or November of last year (I loaned out a couple issues of each to a friend, and I forgot to get them back before he left for co-oping,and I can't find the specific issue) that had an article discussing 8-bit and 16-bit VGA cards. I *think* it said that most programs don't really use the 16-bit bus, so there is actually little difference when switching between the 2 setups. I think windows is one of the ones that uses only the 8-bit mode. If someone could dig up the article, it might shed some more light on this. Is there a way you can put your card into 8-bit mode, to actually test this theory? You would almost need to run some type of benchmark, or a blind test, as if you set it up, and test it, your judgement about whether there is actually any difference between the 2 modes would be biased. Anyway, hope this helps. OBWinBash follows, hit 'n' now to bypass.... windows (note purposeful use of lowercase) is a kludge. If you want a GUI, get GeosWorks Ensemble will run on a PC and XT type machines as well as windows will run one 286 and 386 type machines, so just think how speedy it is on the big machines. There is a substantial installed user base out there that, if they really wanted a GUI, would choose Geos over windows. I feel that Geos will eventually take over as the premier GUI. If you want multi-tasking, go with DESQview. It does a much better job than windows. Again, you still have the establshed user base that at comfortable with a CLI, and will not change to a GUI anytime soon, so any windows products will never be used by them. I think windows could have been a really nice product if it would have left out the attempt to multitask DOS apps. Just too much overhead to try to accomplish both, and too many hardware requirements. Btw, I ran windows for a while, on my 386SX. I didn't like it. -- Mike Castle (Nexus) S087891@UMRVMA.UMR.EDU (preferred) | RN ate my mcastle@mcs213k.cs.umr.edu (unix mail-YEACH!)| .newsrc! Life is like a clock: You can work constantly, and be right | I am not all the time, or not work at all, and be right twice a day. | happy :-<
Ralf.Brown@B.GP.CS.CMU.EDU (02/09/91)
In article <NELSON.91Feb7124258@sun.clarkson.edu>, nelson@sun.soe.clarkson.edu (Russ Nelson) wrote: }In article <26754@uflorida.cis.ufl.EDU> jdb@reef.cis.ufl.edu (Brian K. W. Hook) writes: } I am contemplating getting a monchrome monitor and card to supplement my } VGA card and monitor for use with Turbo Debugger....anyone have any } }Yes, it should only cost you $100. But be aware that putting an 8-bit }card into the same double-segment (B000->CFFF) as a 16-bit card will cause }the 16-bit card to be accessed 8 bits at a time. In other words, your }16-bit VGA will act like an 8-bit VGA. You've got it backwards. Any 16-bit card in a double segment forces all cards into 16-bit accesses. This means that you will have to set your VGA to 8-bit operation in order to be able to use the mono board (unless you can find a 16-bit mono adapter--let me know if you do!). If you leave your VGA in 16-bit mode, you'll get some interesting effects as all the attribute bytes written to the mono board get sent to bit heaven.... -- {backbone}!cs.cmu.edu!ralf ARPA: RALF@CS.CMU.EDU FIDO: Ralf Brown 1:129/3.1 BITnet: RALF%CS.CMU.EDU@CMUCCVMA AT&Tnet: (412)268-3053 (school) FAX: ask DISCLAIMER? Did | It isn't what we don't know that gives us trouble, it's I claim something?| what we know that ain't so. --Will Rogers
jpn@genrad.com (John P. Nelson) (02/12/91)
>I *think* it said that most programs don't really use the 16-bit bus >there is actually little difference when switching between the 2 setups. I >think windows is one of the ones that uses only the 8-bit mode. If someone >could dig up the article, it might shed some more light on this. I think the point is that in normal VGA graphics modes, the VGA architecture restricts accesses to 8 bits at a time, anyway. The main thing sped up by a 16 bit display card is the video BIOS. While it is possible to write to the video memory in TEXT mode 16-bits at a time, this is not really that noticable since this is not normally a noticable bottleneck. While you may be able to write a 16 bit word to a VGA in graphics mode, it really takes as long as two 8 bit cycles because of the architecture of the VGA controller. Of course, it is possible that if super-VGA drivers are included with a 16-bit card, that they write to the video memory in graphics modes 16-bits at a time in a proprietary manner. john nelson uucp: {decvax,mit-eddie}!genrad!jpn domain: jpn@genrad.com
ekalenda@cup.portal.com (Edward John Kalenda) (02/12/91)
> I am contemplating getting a monchrome monitor and card to supplement my > VGA card and monitor for use with Turbo Debugger....anyone have any > experience doing so? Is it worth the expense? Thanks. > > Brian I have this setup on my machine and love it. Not only does it let me debug graphics applications and still see the output, it prevents the annoying flip from debugger screen to application screen and back. I'd recommend this to anybody doing even simple debugging. I like it so much, I'm setting up my other machine the same way. Ed ekalenda@cup.portal.com
mike@bluemoon.uucp (Mike Cooper) (02/14/91)
> > I am contemplating getting a monchrome monitor and card to supplement my > VGA card and monitor for use with Turbo Debugger....anyone have any > experience doing so? Is it worth the expense? Thanks. > > Brian It's a pretty worthwile investment considering the time you'll save. Especially if you do a lot of things that require output to the screen. If you are just developing calculations routines it won't be much of a help. <Mike>
tom@syssoft.com (Rodentia) (02/15/91)
In article <26775@uflorida.cis.ufl.EDU> jdb@reef.cis.ufl.edu (Brian K. W. Hook) writes: > >That is absolutely horrid. So all my Windows applications means that while >this here card is installed, I will be moving at HALF SPEED?! This doesn't >seem very realistically cool, know what I mean? Is there a way around >this? I can't afford that kind of io bottleneck (33mhz w/8MB going through >display at 8-bits is not very fun).....any info to circumvent said >atrocity would be appreciated. > >Brian It's really nothing to worry about. 16-bit mode is only useful for character displays and linear fills/xors. Otherwise you're spending all of your time doing 8-bit access to the i/o ports and 8-bit accesses to the one byte of video RAM you're changing before you have to go back to the i/o and do it ALL over again. (note that this is based on use of the 640xXXXx16 modes. if there is a way around this generally available, at least to windows drivers, please let me know) Regards, -Tom -- Thomas Roden | tom@syssoft.com Systems and Software, Inc. | Voice: (714) 833-1700 x454 "If the Beagle had sailed here, Darwin would have | FAX: (714) 833-1900 come up with a different theory altogether." - me |