jpexg@mit-hermes.ARPA (John Purbrick) (04/04/85)
D. Cherson had a unpleasant time at the Hedonism resort in Jamaica because of the surrounding local people's poverty. I sympathize. An Indian friend of mine has several times asked me to go and visit him in India, but my feeling is that it would be like D. Cherson's experience. How can you spend money on having a good time, knowing that the people around you are on the verge of starvation? It's bad enough being well fed and having the option of being well clothed while people elsewhere are starving and wear rags, but I can't see going to their homes and flaunting my wealth. As my Indian friend says, you get used to it, and perhaps it is hypocritical to allow such poverty to exist in nearby countries--we don't make solving Jamaican poverty an overly high priority--but there's a difference between knowing that people are suffering and actually seeing them and ignoring them. I couldn't enjoy Hedonism either. John Purbrick decvax!genrad!mit-eddie!mit-hermes!jpexg jpexg@mit-hermes.ARPA
doug@terak.UUCP (Doug Pardee) (04/08/85)
I don't see the point in avoiding travel to countries which are rife
with poverty. Sounds to me like burying one's head in the sand, to
keep from having to face reality.
I too was struck by the poverty in the Caribbean, and was startled to
see the amount that exists on the US Virgin Islands. I'm not naive;
I know that there will always be some poverty everywhere. But "some"
wasn't the word I'd use for St. Thomas.
But I can't see hiding from it. They're poor and I'm not. It's a fact.
What I can (and did) do is to buy from the locals. The money didn't
mean much to me, but it meant a lot to them. And it encourages them in
the work ethic, rather than the "welfare ethic".
Refusing to go to poor countries only makes them poorer.
--
Doug Pardee -- Terak Corp. -- !{hao,ihnp4,decvax}!noao!terak!douglwe3207@acf4.UUCP (Lars Warren Ericson) (04/09/85)
[] > How can you spend money on having a good time, knowing that the > people around you are on the verge of starvation? ... As my Indian > friend says, you get used to it, and perhaps it is hypocritical to > allow such poverty to exist ... but there's a difference between > knowing that people are suffering and actually seeing them and > ignoring them. I couldn't enjoy Hedonism either. > > John Purbrick > decvax!genrad!mit-eddie!mit-hermes!jpexg You'd *hate* New York City.
san@peora.UUCP (Sanjay Tikku) (04/09/85)
> D. Cherson had a unpleasant time at the Hedonism resort in Jamaica because > of the surrounding local people's poverty. I sympathize. An Indian friend > of mine has several times asked me to go and visit him in India, but my > feeling is that it would be like D. Cherson's experience. How can you spend > money on having a good time, knowing that the people around you are on the > verge of starvation? It's bad enough being well fed and having the option > of being well clothed while people elsewhere are starving and wear rags, > but I can't see going to their homes and flaunting my wealth. As my Indian > friend says, you get used to it, and perhaps it is hypocritical to allow > such poverty to exist in nearby countries--we don't make solving Jamaican > poverty an overly high priority--but there's a difference between knowing > that people are suffering and actually seeing them and ignoring them. > I couldn't enjoy Hedonism either. > > John Purbrick > decvax!genrad!mit-eddie!mit-hermes!jpexg > jpexg@mit-hermes.ARPA As an Indian now living in USA I felt compelled to post a followup to the above simply because of its sweeping generalizations which in one swipe has covered America, Jamaica and India. It is apparent that the author's viewpoint is based on either limited or incorrect information. First of all, to encounter poverty, you don't have to travel to Jamaica or for that matter across the globe to India : New York will be sufficient. The plight of people at the lowest rung in this society is the same as the plight of people at that level in India. Ofcourse numerically there are more there but then for that matter the overall population is also 3 times more. The bottom line is that there are people starving in all countries including USA . This statement does not in any way include the current crisis in Africa because the situation there is abnormal. What irked me most in the above article was the impression it gives to the audience that India is a country where people are on the verge of starvation. No one will deny the fact that it is a poor country and the standards of living is much lower when compared to USA but the starving population is a minor percentage of the overall. Note that the population of poor people is not insignificant there but they are not starving. That society too has all kinds of level in the society : from the stinking rich to the starving people, but isn't it true of everyplace ? Many people are surprised to know that even the poor people ( not the starving ones) are content in their situation ! Can you imagine it , I guess not. The main problem in this country is that people have virtually no knowledge of the oriental countries beyond a superficial level and this is especially true of India. The main source of their information is the media and the less said about its biased projections and biased news items, the better it is. As a small example of the ignorance of the majority of American population, since the time I came to this country I have been asked countless number of times, as to how I was able to speak English. It shows that they don't know that English happens to be a major language of that country and the ONLY language which is understood in almost all parts of the country which has over 600 different languages and dialects. If you have read so far and are fuming over it then this article was intended for you. I have just one thing to say to John and other Americans of his thinking, If you want to see what the world looks like go out and visit some places beyond Western Europe also but please don't form sweeping generalizations from here because the image of the rest of the world is quite inaccurate. As far as enjoying in those places is concerned, well that depends on you : People who want to have a good time have it ( including in places like Jamaica) and those who don't, always keep cringing. -------------------------------------------------------------------- All opinions expressed in this article are strictly mine and do not reflect those of my employer. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Sanjay Tikku Perkin-Elmer,SDC,Orlando ..!pesnta!peora!san
rdz@ccice5.UUCP (Robert D. Zarcone) (04/11/85)
> > What I can (and did) do is to buy from the locals. The money didn't > mean much to me, but it meant a lot to them. And it encourages them in > the work ethic, rather than the "welfare ethic". > > Refusing to go to poor countries only makes them poorer. > -- > Doug Pardee -- Terak Corp. -- !{hao,ihnp4,decvax}!noao!terak!doug And you were doing so well until you got to the third paragraph! No wonder half the world considers us "Ugly Americans". My question to you is: Where do you get off establishing what the "ethics" of a soverign foreign country should be? It's really none of your business what their ethics are as long as it doesn't affect you! And don't give me any "if they don't learn the work ethic they'll become Commies" CRAP either. It's about time this country learned that it doesn't have a mandate from God to establish our traditions and values on the whole world. BTW, refusing to go to poor countries only makes THE POWER ELITE poorer! *** REPLACE THIS LINE WITH YOUR MESSAGE ***
doug@terak.UUCP (Doug Pardee) (04/12/85)
> Where do you get off establishing what the "ethics" of a > soverign foreign country should be? It's really none of your business > what their ethics are as long as it doesn't affect you! I wonder what brought *that* on? Did net.travel and net.flame get crossed up in one of the backbone sites?? :-) -- Doug Pardee -- Terak Corp. -- !{hao,ihnp4,decvax}!noao!terak!doug
jpexg@mit-hermes.ARPA (John Purbrick) (04/13/85)
I'm sorry if my earlier posting under this title offended anyone. It may well have been a mistake to have mentioned specific countries as being "poor", and it's especially unfortunate that a colleague of mine coincidentally got involved in a controversy involving India at the same time. Maybe prosperous "westerners" are particularly struck by the open and severe poverty of (as might be) Jamaica, Latin America, etc. So our media tend to emphasize this rather than more optimistic features of those countries. Still, though, the original person who wrote on this subject found Jamaican poverty bad enough to ruin his vacation. Could it happen elsewhere (naming no specific countries)? I think so, if one is susceptible to such things. As for the question "Aren't there poor people in New York/Boston/wherever?" I'd say "Very few of them". Sure, we have "poor people" by our standards, but by 3rd world criteria they aren't badly off at all. The *really* poor people live in shantytowns--or on the streets--and have no jobs, no welfare payments, no safe drinking water, go hungry every day, and watch their children waste away and die. How many Americans suffer that badly? The word "poor" describes a position relative to some average, and by world standards our average is very, very high. That's why, when we go somewhere where people aren't so lucky, we can expect to be shocked. John Purbrick decvax!genrad!mit-eddie!mit-hermes!jpexg jpexg@mit-hermes.ARPA