hayden@pyrite.DEC (04/26/85)
After all of the recent discussion of Paris, I thought I would add my impressions. I was there in mid-August, and for those that do not know, August is the quietest time there because the French usually go on holiday the entire month of August and head to the Mediterranean. I was alone and on bicycle, and stayed in a campsite in the Bois de Bologne. Since I had no one to talk to or do things with, and since I had been travelling for weeks and was sick of being a tourist, I was mainly there as an observer. What I observed made me quite ashamed. It was Americans that were rude to me and to the Europeans around. It was not the French. In a few short hours, I found myself trying to avoid Americans. They would come up to me and ask directions and be exceptionally rude if I could not help them. They were the ones standing in lines complaining about the street noise that they heard from their luxury hotel rooms. At the campsite, I was the only American. What I observed of the Europeans there was real closeness, warmth, joy, and patience. They were so happy to just have the time to spend with their families and visit Paris. The campground was packed like a sardine can, the lines for showers were up to an hour long, but I did not see one European complain or even act inconvenienced. It was a real lesson for me. My general impression of the Europeans was that they were incredibly civil considering the abuse I saw Americans give them. My first experience was when I entered the city and went to a train information booth to ask directions. An older American couple was there asking for directions. They were so rude and demanding that I wanted to eliminate them. I found myself checking my clothes and bicycle and hoping that I had no telltale identification as being American. The information worker was very patient and considerate, and then treated me with courtesy that I would have found hard to muster up after that last encounter. So, I suggest that if you are in another area, wherever it be, spend some time just as an observer. Sit and watch how Americans are treating their foreign hosts, and then judge the hosts. As for your experiences, I do not doubt that Parisians may have been rude to you. But for myself, I could never criticize a Parisian who is rude to an American after what I experienced in Paris. I would also suggest that when you visit a foreign country, try to live like the natives for awhile. Stay where they stay, watch how they behave, observe their customs. From what I saw, Europeans were sensitive to customs in other countries, and tried to treat people with patience and courtesy. The Americans I met did not really seem interested in 'experiencing' the country. They were just there to tell everyone they had gone. They were loud, abrasive, arrogant, and impatient. I asked Europeans about their impressions of Americans. One French couple told me *We like them better than the Arabs* - I think that made us a *2* on a scale from 1 to 10. All of the others I met said they felt that Americans were friendly, but loud. That they were the ones you could hear across the restaurant when you were trying to have a quiet, cozy dinner. Consider that when you are in Europe trying to be overheard so you will *impress* the Europeans. I can say nothing good about the Americans I met in Europe. I would tell you where my favorite spots in France were, but I do not want to see any Americans there when I return. There is a lot of truth in the stereotype of the 'Ugly American'. Janice Hayden
klein@ucbcad.UUCP (04/29/85)
> In a few short > hours, I found myself trying to avoid Americans. They would come up > to me and ask directions and be exceptionally rude if I could not > help them. They were the ones standing in lines complaining about > the street noise that they heard from their luxury hotel rooms. Hear, hear! This is not just your experience, either. Imagine a beautiful Rhine cruise on a boat with wonderful beer and great German food. A family of Texans sits behind us, dominating the conversation on this side of the boat, complaining about the food and telling the kids that they're just going to have to wait until they get back to the hotel to get some decent food (steaks and hot dogs, not those weird "wuerstchen" on the lower deck). We had great seats so all we could do was shrink down and not talk too much lest we give away we were American too. This was the worst we saw, but certainly not the only instance of "Ugly Americans." Anybody going to a foreign country soon? If you do, do us all a BIG favor and stop perpetuating this awful (but accurate) image Americans have overseas. Don't assume everybody's envious of you because you're an American. Don't assume our food is the only (it actually ranks pretty low --- open your mind and try EVERYTHING). Like Janice says, sit by and WATCH the other cultures for a while. You can learn a lot from them. And you'll enjoy yourself much more. -- -Mike Klein ...!ucbvax!ucbmerlin:klein (UUCP) klein%ucbmerlin@berkeley (ARPA)
jrc@ritcv.UUCP (James R. Carbin) (05/01/85)
> > I can say nothing good about the Americans I met in Europe. > I would tell you where my favorite spots in France were, but I > do not want to see any Americans there when I return. There is a lot > of truth in the stereotype of the 'Ugly American'. > > Janice Hayden Amen! I don't know if I would condemn all American tourists in Europe, but I have certainly witnessed my share of "Ugly Americans." In a few cases, I felt like taking them over my knee and giving them a good spanking! A suggestion that I might make. Rather than stay in the luxury hotels which I couldn't really afford anyway, stay in what I call European Hotels where amenities such as in-room bathroom facilities are usually absent. (Don't worry - they're down the hall.) This is where most of the European businessmen and middleclass European tourists stay. They are a step above the hostels, but still usually reasonable in price. You'll rarely run into other Americans and if you do, they're of similar mentality. For example, the night that Nixon resigned, I found myself in a 125-room hotel in Copenhagen and we were the only Americans! We found it real interesting talking to some of the other guests in the next few days about his resignation and how they perceived it, but now I'm getting into net.poitics. So many Europeans in the larger cities have been so turned off by the "Ugly American" syndrome that I think that in many cases you will have to "prove yourself" first! I think that the nicest compliment ever given to me was when a Doctor in Stockholm said as we were leaving, "I really enjoyed meeting you... you're not at all like most Americans that I meet." Interestingly, this fellow had spent two years in the U.S. as an exchange student. It is so unfortunate that what is really the minority has become perceived as the majority; namely, "The Ugly American." as ever, j.r. {allegra,seismo}!rochester!ritcv!jrc
greenber@timeinc.UUCP (Ross Greenberg) (05/03/85)
On a recent trip to Europe, I was amazed at the rudeness and silliness
of most of the American *tourists* I met.
There is a real difference between American tourists versus *travelers*.
The tourists are in such a rush ("Quick Martha!! I have to get a shot
of you in your Calvin's in front of Venus de Milo before the bus leaves!"),
that they have no time to get to know the people.
Take your time to know the people, and see the sights as a secondary thing:
go to the museums if it is raining, otherwise just sit in a park/cafe
and enjoy your coffee while talking to other travelers doing the same.
While in Paris I hurt my feet and was "stuck" there for about two weeks.
So I hung out in little cafes, parks, bookstores ("Shakesp. and Co.!),
and gardens (Jardin du Luxenburgh). Made my trip great!
And the locals I met refused to believe that I came from NYC (merci!).
--
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Ross M. Greenberg @ Time Inc, New York
--------->ihnp4!cmcl2!timeinc!greenber<---------
"If ever the pleasure of one has to be bought by the pain of the other,
there better be no trade. A trade by which one gains and the other
loses is a fraud." --- Dagny Taggertmohsen@tikal.UUCP (Mohsen Banan) (05/07/85)
I just returned from Paris. Having read most of the articles regarding Paris over the past month or so, I want to add my experiences to the pool. - First of all, Paris is the most beautiful city in the world. - All big cities are unsafe if you are not careful. Try not to look like a tourist. Make sure that you stay in a safe hotel. Only cary on you what you need. - Better Exchange rates: Make the conversion in the target country unless that is illigal. Credit cards provide very good exchange rates. Visa is accepted almost every where in France. Some bigger stores accept dollars at a better rate than banks do. - Should you be planning on going to France in the near future, send me email and I'll send you the address of several good restaurants and hotels. Paris is Beautiful and Dollar is Strong. Enjoy it while you can.
tonjon@fluke.UUCP (Tony Johnson) (05/09/85)
> > > I just returned from Paris. Having read most of the articles > regarding Paris over the past month or so, I want to add my > experiences to the pool. > > - First of all, Paris is the most beautiful city in the world. > - All big cities are unsafe if you are not careful. > Try not to look like a tourist. > Make sure that you stay in a safe hotel. > Only cary on you what you need. > - Better Exchange rates: > Make the conversion in the target country unless that is illigal. > Credit cards provide very good exchange rates. Visa is accepted > almost every where in France. > Some bigger stores accept dollars at a better rate than banks > do. > - Should you be planning on going to France in the near future, > send me email and I'll send you the address of several good > restaurants and hotels. > > Paris is Beautiful and Dollar is Strong. > Enjoy it while you can. Mohsen: The 'reply' command is not working for me (or I'm not working for it) so I'm sending this as a follow up...I'm going to be in Paris in June and would like any suggestions for accomodations, food, etc. Thanks for your article and, in advance, for any additional information you can supply. Tony Johnson John Fluke Mfg. Co. Inc. Everett, WA.
mohsen@tikal.UUCP (Mohsen Banan) (05/13/85)
I received a lot of email responces as a result of the last posting.
Obviuosly there are a lot of people planning to go Paris in the near
future.
Hotels:
L'Office de Tourisme de Paris
127, Champs-Elysees - 75008 PARIS
Metro: Etoil
telephone: +33 (1) 723.61.72 Telex 611984
Provides a booklet with the address of more than 1000
hotels in Paris. It includes prices, addresses,
categories (number of stars) and ...
Ask for "Guide des Hotels de Paris".
The following is a list of the ones that I have been to
and have liked.
Hotel Du Rond-Point do Longchamp ***nn
86, rue de Longchamp - 75116 PARIS
Metro: Trocadero
Telephone +33 (1) 505.13.63
This is a modern, clean and good hotel. If you make to Paris
via CDG airport, take the navette (bus) to Port Maillot and
then take a taxi. It is also very central.
Prices Range from 350FF to 370FF. Breakfast 26FF.
Comete Hotel *nn
15, rue de la Comete- 75007 PARIS
Metro: La Tour-Maubourg
Telephone +33 (1) 705.08.53
This is traditional one star French hotel. It is cheap,
with out toilet and shower it starts at 67FF. (~$7)
With toilet and shower it is about 190FF. Breakfast 13FF.
It is a clean and SAFE hotel. This one is also very central.
Mention that you heard about them through the BANAN family.
Remember one or two star French hotels are not very comfortable
by American standards.
Plaisance Hotel *nn
53, rue de Gergovie, 75014 PARIS
Metro: Pernety
Telephone +33 (1) 542.11.39
Same story as Comete Hotel.
Restaurants:
You can find decent and cheap food in almost any cafe that
serves food.
Drug-Store on Champs-Elysees is good. When you find yourself
hungry there, and do not want to spend a lot and yet get good
food, that would be one place.
There are a lot of good French, greek and north African
restaurants close to Place St. Michel.
This is the one I liked best:
Le View Paris,
9, Rue Saint Severin
Paris 5iem
Telephone: +33 (1) 326.96.52
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!uw-beaver!tikal!mohsen Mohsen Banan
Teltone Corporation 11811 93rd Ave. N.E. #304
P.O. Box 657 Kirkland, Wa 98033 USA
Kirkland, Wa 98033 USA tel: +1 (206) 821-8560
tel: +1 (206) 827-9626 tonjon@fluke.UUCP (Tony Johnson) (05/14/85)
> > I received a lot of email responces as a result of the last posting. > Obviuosly there are a lot of people planning to go Paris in the near > future. > etc. > !uw-beaver!tikal!mohsen Mohsen Banan > Teltone Corporation 11811 93rd Ave. N.E. #304 > P.O. Box 657 Kirkland, Wa 98033 USA > Kirkland, Wa 98033 USA tel: +1 (206) 821-8560 > tel: +1 (206) 827-9626 I got some numbers of the travel bureau offices in this country for what it's worth: Austria 213-380-3309 England 213-623-8196 France 213-271-6665 213-272-2661 Germany 213-688-7332 Holland 415-543-6772 Switzerland 415-362-2260 The type of information is not 'LETS GO' quality, but you might gleen some ideas from it. Tony Johnson Everett, WA.