fish@hpfclr.UUCP (fish) (06/25/85)
I will be in northern Europe for the first three
weeks of September, and have a few questions
concerning transportation for any of you seasoned
travellers. Specifically, I will be in Britain,
France, and Germany.
First, is renting a car a hassle in Europe? Is
it more economical to make arrangements when
you arrive, or is it worthwhile to make arrangements
in the U.S. before going.
Also, can one find economical transportation across
the English Channel ?
Finally, I am interested in going to Berlin from
Paris. Is train transportation economical, fast,
scenic ? I would appreciate any comments from
net users.
Thanks,
Kevin Fisher
Hewlett-Packard
ihnp4!hpfcla!hpfclr!fish glen@hpfcla.UUCP (glen) (06/26/85)
I have returned from an auto tour of Germany, Czech., Austria, Italy, Switzerland, and France in June, I hope this information will be of some value. We reserved our car in advance, you can work through any of the major rental dealers, Hertz, Avis, etc. One thing to consider when doing this is that some dealers will quote you a rate in dollars, which may or may not be helpful, depending on how the dollar is doing, others will bill you in the local currency. Different countries charge different tax rates on renting autos, ask a travel agent. From your list I believe you would be best renting a car in Germany, if possible the best European country to rent a car in (from a tax standpoint) is Luxembourg. You will find driving in France and Germany a pleasure as there are no speed limits on the main highways (130 km/hr is suggested as a max) and the drivers in general are much more courteous than here. Be prepared for the speeds and willing to move out of someone's way if you are impeding them, they will do the same for you. You will have trouble getting a car with air-conditioning. While traveling the German states, you will be given a driving disk (made of cardboard), set the time you park on the disk and set it in the window when parking on public streets, otherwise you'll get a ticket. That is about all the info I can recall pertinent to auto travel. Be pre- pared for high gas prices and most cars require PREMIUM unleaded, the good news is that most of the cars over there get better miliage than their American counterparts, especially if you get into the sub-compacts. Enjoy your trip! Glen Shirey -- hpfcla!hpcnoa!glen
mmt@dciem.UUCP (Martin Taylor) (07/02/85)
In the last 2 months, I have driven about 11,000 km in Europe, mostly
Germany but some France and Belgium as well. I highly recommend driving
over train travel, if you like to drive, because you can get to out-of-the-way
places and make spur of the moment stops at nice little country hotels.
Rental is easy. I like Eurorent, who have an agency at Frankfurt
airport and a few other places (Dusseldorf, Stuttgart?, Hamburg? -- I
don't have the brochure handy). Their prices are substantially lower
than the other agencies at the airport, and I found their service and
cars to be better (I got a brand-new Opel Corsa, 8 km on the clock,
for 332DM per week. You can do better by the month). It is a good
idea to reserve ahead, because when I returned the car they were
turning away people at the booth.
As hpcnoa!glen (Glen Shirey) says, driving is comfortable, especially
in Germany, because (a) there is no speed limit, so you can watch the
road and traffic, and drive as fast or slow as you like, at least on]
the autobahns, and (b) drivers are courteous and aggressive at the same
time, rather than timid and rude as is so often the case here. If you
are a moderately competent driver with a controllable car, the contrast
is amazing. After driving there, I find driving here to be frustrating
and hair-raisingly dangerous.
Most of the details in the posting by Glen Shirey are fine, but some are
not strictly correct. There is a speed limit (130) in France, and
I have seen several radar traps. But people conventionally drive
rather faster than the speed limit, just as they do in N. America
(I averaged around 170 Marseilles to Nice, and was passed quite a
few times). It is probably cheaper to rent in Germany than to deal
through the US agent; at least it is cheaper than doing it from Canada
(only the expensive outfits have transatlantic agencies). Unleaded
gas is practically unavailable, although it is beginning to appear
at some special gas stations.
As for train to Berlin: the Northern part of Germany is pretty flat,
so it is unlikely to be very scenic (I've never been to Berlin, so
I couldn't say for sure). South of about Hannover-Dortmund, the country
is very beautiful. Go into the Sauerland or Siegerland, or the Harz,
or the Eifel, just to mention a few areas that don't get such a big
play in the tourist brochures. Buy maps of the kind called "Freizeitkarte"
They give little pictures of interesting things in their areas (on the
back of the map, not obscuring the map detail), with a small tourist
indication of what is interesting about them. The scale is 1/100,000
which lets you find all the little byways, including the ways through
towns. Cost 6.80 DM, which can add up if you buy a lot, but they are
worth it.
--
Martin Taylor
{allegra,linus,ihnp4,floyd,ubc-vision}!utzoo!dciem!mmt
{uw-beaver,qucis,watmath}!utcsri!dciem!mmtklein@ucbcad.UUCP (Mike Klein) (07/05/85)
> drivers are courteous and aggressive at the same > time, rather than timid and rude as is so often the case here. If you > are a moderately competent driver with a controllable car, the contrast > is amazing. After driving there, I find driving here to be frustrating > and hair-raisingly dangerous. Absolutely true! I recently drove from Florence to Nice, then to Geneva. The Italians are the best drivers I have ever seen... fast but always alert, careful and courteous. Never once saw anything even hinting at a collision in Italy (like panic braking) even in Rome and Florence. The French are a cut below; Germans below that --- they are pretty bull-headed drivers. American drivers simply aren't in the same league as any of these. If you can, get a pretty fast car so you can take advantage of the great roads. There are speed limits on all roads that I was on but take your hint from the traffic flow. I did see a Maserati pulled over in Italy, but he had been going at least 180-200 km/hr. When you do rent, make sure you know the charges for taxes (can be over 30%!!) and drop-off (if renting and returning in different countries). I found the entire experience to be pleasurable and would recommend it over even a Eurailpass if you think you'll like driving. -- -Mike Klein ...!ucbvax!ucbmerlin:klein (UUCP) klein%ucbmerlin@berkeley (ARPA)
julian@osu-eddie.UUCP (Julian Gomez) (07/08/85)
I much prefer trains over driving in Europe, for a couple of reasons.
First, I like European lagers; if I'm not driving, I don't have to
worry about holding back. There are just too many varieties to try!
Mainly, though, I like to check things out. I go to Europe to see
things, and the best way to do that is to walk around and get detailed
looks at whatever shows up. In a car you have to drive and can't look
around (or else have to get off the freeway and find a parking spot),
in addition to having to simultaneously figure out road signs in a
language you may not speak.
Train travel in Europe, as probably many know, is quite different from
the US. Being the primary mode of transportation there, it is fast and
efficient. And if you want scenery, just sit by a window and look.
--
Julian "a tribble took it" Gomez
The Ohio State University
{ucbvax,decvax}!cbosg!osu-eddie!juliandarryl@ISM780.UUCP (07/08/85)
[] I've been to Europe twice and both times rented a motorcycle. If you aren't interested, well... But the scenic backroads of Europe are best enjoyed from the saddle, I believe. The people you meet tend to be more friendly also, perhaps because you don't look like the typical Amercian tourist. You can arrange rentals from several different tour groups, such as Beach's Motorcycle Adventures (in New York), or Edelweiss (also in New York?). We rented and travelled on our own, but Beach's runs a 3 week tour through the Alps, and Edelweiss does a tour through France and North Africa. I have seen tours of Ireland and England/Scotland, as well. Good luck, and have fun! --Darryl Richman, INTERACTIVE Systems Corp. ...!cca!ima!ism780!darryl The views expressed above are my opinions only.
bch@mcnc.UUCP (Byron Howes) (07/10/85)
In article <64@ucbcad.UUCP> klein@ucbcad.UUCP (Mike Klein) writes: >> drivers are courteous and aggressive at the same >> time, rather than timid and rude as is so often the case here. If you >> are a moderately competent driver with a controllable car, the contrast >> is amazing. After driving there, I find driving here to be frustrating >> and hair-raisingly dangerous. > >Absolutely true! I recently drove from Florence to Nice, then to Geneva. >The Italians are the best drivers I have ever seen... fast but always >alert, careful and courteous. Never once saw anything even hinting at a >collision in Italy (like panic braking) even in Rome and Florence. The >French are a cut below; Germans below that --- they are pretty bull-headed >drivers. American drivers simply aren't in the same league as any of these. Having driven in Naples for a week this summer, I have to agree. It took me about an hour to get used to the road rules in Italy, but once having adapted to them I felt much more secure than in the U.S. Italian drivers pay much more attention to the traffic around them and are much more skilled at dealing with it than American drivers. In the sense that they recognize your right to get where you are going so long as you recognize their right to get where they are going, they are infinitely more courteous than U.S. drivers. It isn't that the Italians can't afford traffic lights, they really don't need them. It gets a little crazy but it works! -- Byron C. Howes ...!{decvax,akgua}!mcnc!ecsvax!bch
lizv@tektools.UUCP (Liz Vaughan) (07/10/85)
I agree with previous postings on trains being a good way to see Europe, MOST OF THE TIME, but found them not very helpful for finding "out-of-the-way" spots -- you can't tell on the Eurail map if a little town is really fun and interesting or the armpit of the Western World -- you've got to drive through it and SEE, and doing this on the train can be a hassle. I've thought about buying an old VW bus the next time I go and just driving/camping (you can always leave the bus out in the 'burbs of major cities and rely on the local trains/subways to get around). Anyone have experience with repairs/insurance/title hassles? Selling a used car when you leave? Any recommendations for camping in Europe? Not necessarily wilderness experiences, but just as a cheap alternative to hostels/pensiones etc. Are there good books on this? Non-english books also OK if they're available. Do European equivalents of AAA put out lists of camping areas like they do here? Are there even state-run campgrounds in most countries? Does anyone out there have experience with this sort of thing? Liz Vaughan ....tektronix!tektools!lizv
browne@savax.UUCP (browne) (07/11/85)
> drivers are courteous and aggressive at the same > time, rather than timid and rude as is so often the case here. Drivers in Italy are really something else! A someone else mentioned, they drive (as people in the states would say) like maniacs. In Rome, I never saw one accident. If you are a pedestrian, you approach the street you wish to cross, and hold your hand out, palm down/toward oncoming traffic (as if you were a traffic cop). THE TRAFFIC STOPS FOR YOU!!!! It was incredible. I've never seen anything like it in my life before or since. Even though they are rushing and bustling around, they stop for any pedestrians, almost any time. Duff Browne Sanders Assoc. Nashua, NH
mickey@cca.UUCP (Mickey Levine) (07/11/85)
Although my trip was in the spring, I would like to point out some recent things I have learned about renting a car in France: 1) Check your receipt and 2) watch out for the hidden costs. I rented a 'C' class car from Hertz in Roissy which was a 'free car/unlimited mileage' for one week. I paid the upgrade from class 'A' to 'C' before leaving the states. The car (an '85 Opel Kadett 1.3S) was a pleasure to drive, except that it was only a 4-speed. Top speed I got out of it was 160KPH on the German autobahn. As some previous articles stated, if you are a courteous (read not NY, NJ, Boston or Quebec) driver, and understand that a passing lane is just that, you should do fine. In my week of driving, I never saw a radar trap, but we did get off the beaten track a little. Worst places to drive were Paris and Metro, Holland (they speed like crazy) and Belgium. Best places were Western Germany (along the Rhine) and Switzerland. Sorry, I digressed: back to the rental. I finally received the VISA charge for my free car: $183!!! About a week later (3 months after returning, I got the receipt for the rental) and tried to interpert the numbers. First, they added then subtracted the $69 upgrade so they could tax it. There was also about a $40 charge that had no meaning at all. I also elected to take CDW (a good idea), about $5 a day, and PAI (which I later found out is not neccessary if you are insured in the US) again at about $5. So before taxes, I had 69+40+60=$169 in charges. Then there is the 33.3% VAT tax. To top it all off, there was at least one major addition error to the tune of $50. I have sent a letter to Hertz USA to try to straighten out the charges. Just double check. Have fun and safe driving, Mickey Levine decvax!cca!mickey
hollombe@ttidcc.UUCP (The Polymath) (07/13/85)
In article <36600004@ISM780.UUCP> darryl@ISM780.UUCP writes: >I've been to Europe twice and both times rented a motorcycle. If you >aren't interested, well... But the scenic backroads of Europe are best >enjoyed from the saddle, I believe. The people you meet tend to be more >friendly also, perhaps because you don't look like the typical Amercian >tourist. About 12 years ago I set out to live a long standing dream of touring Europe on a motorcycle. I purchased a BMW R75/5 through a local dealer and made arrangements to pick it up at the factory delivery point in Munich. Things went pretty much as planned and I picked up the bike on schedule with no problems. The people at BMW were very helpful and even found me a hotel in Munich. The next day, things started to fall apart. I noticed a slight looseness in the clutch lever and made arrangements with the local BMW dealer to have a look at it. I brought the bike in for what I thought would be a minor adjustment and went to have lunch. An hour later the dealer told me they had the bike taken apart all over the shop and wouldn't have it together again for at least three days. I took a train back to Munich. This inauspicious beginning was the start of a nightmare that lasted most of a year. During that time, I never once got on the bike when there wasn't something wrong with it. In 10K miles of driving I went through a drive shaft, a differential, a rear wheel, _two_ transmissions, and that's just the big stuff. All of the work was done under warranty (i.e.: it was a new bike and I wasn't abusing it). In a year of ownership the bike spent at least 6 months in the shop or waiting for parts to arrive. Some other things I learned the hard way: Although the BMW was supposed to be a touring bike, the saddle was incredibly uncomfortable. After about four hours it would grow teeth. I coverd a lot of miles standing on the foot pegs. It rains a lot in Europe. Water-proof riding gear is essential. If you refuse to ride in the rain, you won't ride much at all. There are very few places you can take a bike that size that you can't take a car. The savings in parking expense are trivial. The BMW side and center stands were very unstable anyway, which made parking a real problem on anything other than a hard, level surface. After a year of frustration and ruined plans, the smartest thing I did was to sell the bike (at considerable loss) and buy a 20 year old Morris Minor. If I had it to do over again, I'd probably start out in a VW camper or equivalent. On the plus side: People were friendlier, I think. The bike made a good conversation piece since big iron like that wasn't very common in Europe at the time. I had some remarkable sign-language conversations with locals who spoke none of the languages I knew. In fairness to BMW, the bike never failed to get me where I wanted to go. It did die on arrival one time (the cause was repaired under warranty even though I'd had an accident along the way). -- -_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ The Polymath (aka: Jerry Hollombe) Citicorp TTI Common Sense is what tells you that a ten 3100 Ocean Park Blvd. pound weight falls ten times as fast as a Santa Monica, CA 90405 one pound weight. (213) 450-9111, ext. 2483 {philabs,randvax,trwrb,vortex}!ttidca!ttidcc!hollombe
darryl@ISM780.UUCP (07/16/85)
/* Written 6:47 pm Jul 12, 1985 by hollombe@ttidcc in ISM780:net.travel */ >About 12 years ago I set out to live a long standing dream of touring >Europe on a motorcycle. [ ...goes on to describe a terrible nightmare] You have my deepest sympathy. Of course, a part of the great feeling of riding a motorcycle is the fact that you are doing something different, more dangerous, less secure, but depending more upon yourself and your abilities to get you through tough times. The BMW marque is well known for reliability, but no manufacturer is exempt from lemons, and it certainly sounds like you got one. I rented two different BMWs in Europe, and I am just now breaking in my second here. The biggest problem I encountered was on the '79 R100RT we had in Germany -- one cold morning I had left the choke on (it's located down on the engine, not on the handlebars like my R65 had), and rode a couple hundred miles, cursing and complaining that the bike was broken and was going to ruin my vacation. Just as we were about to find a BMW dealer in Rotweil, I discovered the choke... I have a hard time taking breakdowns seriously these days. They are just a difficult situation that makes life interesting to live. Motorcycles do tend to break the ice in Europe; practically everyone started out on one or on a moped there, but not everyone drives. Even a big bike is narrower than the smallest 2CV, and can fit through alleys lined with parked cars. And yes, you must expect to ride in the rain, but once again, this is a challenge to enjoy, not to be miserable about (how many get to enjoy the smell of wet grass in a light mist in the Scottish Highlands? It's no wonder they can make such wonderful Whiskey out of that stuff!) As I said previously, it's not for everyone, but I think it's the only way to go! --Darryl Richman, INTERACTIVE Systems Corp. ...!cca!ima!ism780!darryl The views expressed above are my opinions only. P.S. Perhaps followups are more appropriately placed in net.cycle?