joj@rruxa.UUCP (J Jasutis) (06/19/85)
I was planning to go to Greece in October. Now I keep hearing in the news that Athens has notoriously poor airport security. I don't recall hearing about other events in the Athens airport. How does one find out what airports have good/poor security?--I obviously didn't hear about Athens until the current crisis. Joanne
9234dwz@houxf.UUCP (The Rev. Peak) (06/20/85)
RE : Travel via Athens airport.
1) Athens has two terminal buildings, one for Olympic Airlines
and the other for the rest, I suspect that security at the
Olympic terminal would be far superior.
2) If things don't calm down or security isn't SHOWN to be better
there are other ways of getting to Greece.
a) Fly into Italy and catch the ferry from Brindisi to Patras
(about 3 hrs from Athens), I believe that it is about a 12
hour trip, and ferrys run 2/3 times a day. You can also
connect at Patras to Athens(Piraeus actually) by boat as
well.
b) Travel overland through Yugoslavia, this is slow going as
roads can be pretty primative.
c) Fly to Istanbul,Israel or Egypt and take cruise ship to
Greece(Egypt might be your best bet if Crete is your
destination).
I've also HEARD about the supposedly lax security at Athens airport but
I'm not in a position to judge how accurate the info is. All we are
hearing from is the State Dept. who also has an axe to grind with the
Greek govnmt. due to conflicts over Greeces' role in NATO and also who's
to say whether the State Dept.s' policy is due to the fact that the Greek
govnmt won't TELL what the security arrangements are. It could well be
that it's a bit of both.
DO NOT LET THIS STOP YOU ENJOYING GREECE ! I've found it to be the best vacation
spot in Europe.
NB - Hotels & cruises are MUCH CHEAPER if booked in Greece.
Dave Peak
@ !hotel!dxp
"My buddy..................Buddy Bear !" - Jimmy Buffetamp@ada-uts.UUCP (06/25/85)
We are planning to go to Greece in August and are a little concerned
about security at the airport too. I agree with the last response however,
that the State Dept. does have an axe to grind with the Greek government.
The head of the International Air Transport Association (who is having
an emergency meeting in Montreal to try to cope with the rash of
terrorist activities of late) said that he thinks at the moment, Athens
is one of the most secure airports in the world. They have apparently
tightened up security since the hijacking.
Anyway we thought of changing our travel plans but have decided to go
ahead with them. We are flying in on TWA but out on Olympic. We feel
that the Olympic terminal may be safer as it is not the international
terminal. Here's hoping for the best!
Anna P.dwl10@amdahl.UUCP (Dave Lowrey) (07/02/85)
> > > > We are planning to go to Greece in August and are a little concerned > about security at the airport too. I agree with the last response however, > that the State Dept. does have an axe to grind with the Greek government. > The head of the International Air Transport Association (who is having > an emergency meeting in Montreal to try to cope with the rash of > terrorist activities of late) said that he thinks at the moment, Athens > is one of the most secure airports in the world. They have apparently > tightened up security since the hijacking. My Aunt & Uncle were in Greece at the time of the hijacking. They left Greece the Thursday after, and took a plane (don't know which airline) to Rome. From Rome, they went to NYC. When they left Greece, there were guards with machine guns everywhere. The problem was that they wern't paying ANY attention to what was going on around them! They were in little groups talking with each other. One group of four was even playing cards. Also, remember that the TWA hijacking was an inside job, so it really depends on how much attention is being paid to the airport employees. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------- Dave Lowrey "To vacillate or not to vacillate, that is the question.... ....or is it?" ...!(<sun,cbosgd,ihnp4}!amdahl!dwl10 [ The opinions expressed <may> be those of the author and not necessarily those of his most eminent employer. ]
dss00@amdahl.UUCP (dss00) (07/02/85)
It is indeed interesting that the Greeks got a ton of flak
for lax security at Athens airport even though there were
several unanswered questions about how the weapons got on the
TWA plane.
What is even more interesting that there was almost no criticism
of the security at Canadian airports where the explosives that
blew Air India 182 out of the sky were put on board. Oh sure!
That the plane was blown away by explosives is in itself a speculation.
But then how about the bag that blew up at Narita airport?
That one came from Canada.
On a side note, the Athens airport was after all a civilian
installation, the Marine barracks in Beirut were not.
To my mind the administration is trying to get even with the
Greek govt. for its hard nosed attitude towards the U.S. administration.
Its high time some thing is done to protect civilian population
from being caught in the cross fire.
--
Deepak S. Sabnis ...!{ihnp4,hplabs,amd,nsc}!amdahl!dss00 (408) 746-6058
(Usual Disclaimer Here)jbtubman@water.UUCP (Jim Tubman [LPAIG]) (07/04/85)
In article <1734@amdahl.UUCP> dss00@amdahl.UUCP (dss00) writes: >What is even more interesting that there was almost no criticism >of the security at Canadian airports where the explosives that >blew Air India 182 out of the sky were put on board. Oh sure! >That the plane was blown away by explosives is in itself a speculation. >But then how about the bag that blew up at Narita airport? >That one came from Canada. > >Its high time some thing is done to protect civilian population >from being caught in the cross fire. > >Deepak S. Sabnis ...!{ihnp4,hplabs,amd,nsc}!amdahl!dss00 (408) 746-6058 Actually, there was scads of criticism of Canadian airport security. New X-ray and explosive-sniffing machines were brought in within days. There were also 4 hour lineups for international departures as all luggage was searched by hand. The big suspicion now is that the bombs may have been an inside job (either a package given to the pilot, or a bomb placed by a baggage handler). India was the real target of the Air India attack; Canadians aren't worth a terrorist's time. It's a damn shame that Canadians were killed because of a struggle on the other side of the world; a struggle that we could exert little or no influence on anyway. (It's just as bad that Indians and Japanese were killed, too.) Jim Tubman University of Waterloo
smh@rduxb.UUCP (henning) (07/05/85)
> > It is indeed interesting that the Greeks got a ton of flak > To my mind the administration is trying to get even with the > Greek govt. for its hard nosed attitude towards the U.S. administration. **** **** From the keys of Steve Henning, AT&T Bell Labs, Reading, PA rduxb!smh The ton of flak is that the airport does not have a "sterile concourse" system which insures that all people who have access to the planes have been run through a security check point. Also the security guards are apparently selected with a spoils system which insures that the least qualified get hired first and have no incentive to do a good job. I feel the U.S. Administration sucks gumballs, but I don't plan on visiting Greece on my next trip to Europe. If you have been to Narita or even to Barbados, you know what security is all about.
doug@terak.UUCP (Doug Pardee) (07/08/85)
> It is indeed interesting that the Greeks got a ton of flak > for lax security at Athens airport even though there were > several unanswered questions about how the weapons got on the > TWA plane. > ... > To my mind the administration is trying to get even with the > Greek govt. for its hard nosed attitude towards the U.S. administration. Based entirely on TV news reports (however reliable that may be)... Athens airport has a long-standing reputation for poor security. Even after the hijacking, and after reassurances that security had been "tightened", a TV film crew with the zillions of black boxes that such film crews carry, simply walked behind the security guard and out into the "secure" area of the airport. There were no challenges, no move was made to stop them. I'd sure like to think that they wouldn't get away with that *here*. -- Doug Pardee -- Terak Corp. -- !{ihnp4,seismo,decvax}!noao!terak!doug ^^^^^--- soon to be CalComp
cdp@uiucdcsb.Uiuc.ARPA (07/08/85)
>When they left Greece, there were guards with machine guns everywhere. >The problem was that they wern't paying ANY attention to what was going >on around them! They were in little groups talking with each other. One >group of four was even playing cards. > >Also, remember that the TWA hijacking was an inside job, so it really >depends on how much attention is being paid to the airport >employees. -- I find it very hard to believe that there were guards playing cards at the airport. It takes just one complain to have these guys fired and I do not believe they would be so stupid to risk their jobs for a card game!! cdp
gnome@olivee.UUCP (Gary Traveis) (07/12/85)
> > > >When they left Greece, there were guards with machine guns everywhere. > >The problem was that they wern't paying ANY attention to what was going > >on around them! They were in little groups talking with each other. One > >group of four was even playing cards. > > > >Also, remember that the TWA hijacking was an inside job, so it really > >depends on how much attention is being paid to the airport > >employees. > > -- > I find it very hard to believe that there were guards playing cards at > the airport. It takes just one complain to have these guys fired and > I do not believe they would be so stupid to risk their jobs for a card game!! > > cdp Try again. That is the American way of thinking about that scene. Now place yourself in Greece. You make a complaint to the supervisor covering that area. He nods and scribbles something on his note pad. You leave. He goes back to HIS card game. The only way to be absolutely sure of a flight's safety abroad would be to have the US air carriers have their own security, assigned to each plane. They'd have a vested interest in doing a good job because they'd be on that flight! In foriegn "black star" airports, the loading time for baggage would have to be extended to allow for fine-screening of all baggage coming on board. No locals allowed. That would piss-off many different airports, but it is one of only a few ways to get a real handle on the situation. The news last night (7/11) carried a story on new increased security when it came to carry-on luggage and how it would mean limits on size and amount (which already exists, to a certain extent). What is stupid about that whole idea is that the hostage situation came about because of lax internal security and corruption at the airport level. After all, it is kind-of hard to slip a pair of AK-47 machine guns through an airport x-ray machine! Also, if the Air India flight was indeed bombed, you can bet that the person who did it didn't take the bomb onboard as carry-on luggage! Enough flaming. Before you travel, keep an ear open to world affairs! It might be the best travel research you can do. Gary (hplabs,allegra,ihnp4)oliveb!olivee!gnome
ken@alberta.UUCP (Ken Hruday) (07/16/85)
In article <256@aero.ARPA> sivan@aero.UUCP (Sivan Mahadevan (ISRO)) writes: >----- > By Canadians do you mean Canadian Citizens or Canadians of European >ancestory? There were 279 "Canadians" on that flight but they were all of >Indian origin. I guess that your use of the term Canadians is terribly >confusing here. > > Sivan Mahadevan There is nothing confusing about the word "Canadians". This word is used to describe any individuals who are citizens of Canada. The fact that most of the Canadians on the flight were of East Indian origin is immaterial. This does not mean that they are any less "Canadian" then those of European ancestory. There is nothing confusing about this. Ken Hruday University of Alberta
rdz@ccice5.UUCP (Robert D. Zarcone) (07/16/85)
> I find it very hard to believe that there were guards playing cards at > the airport. It takes just one complain to have these guys fired and > I do not believe they would be so stupid to risk their jobs for a card game!! > > cdp I thought guards in airports were usually police or military personnel? If this is so, I don't think they stand much risk of being fired. (Maybe reassigned?) *** REPLACE THIS LINE WITH YOUR MESSAGE ***
cdp@uiucdcsb.Uiuc.ARPA (07/17/85)
Doug, you do not seem to follow the news. Read response #2 of the current
base note.....If you follow the news you should know that:
1-After the hijacking reporters from various TV stations
started this "game" of passing undetected through airport
security checkpoints all over the world. They managed to
pass undetected in
O'HARE airport
Laguardia airport (NY)
Paris, FR
2- The reporter who was shown on TV passing through the
Athens airport security actually passed ONLY through
PASSPORT CONTROL NOT THE SECURITY CHECKPOINTS.
3- Just today IATA said (and was on the NBC news and in
most major newspapers) that Athens airport is the
SAFEST AIRPORT IN THE WORLD.
4- Athens airport did not have "a long-standing reputation
on poor security" because they operated at least two
security checkpoints IN ADDITION TO THE SEPARATE SECURITY
THAT TWA (AND OTHER COMPANIES) MAINTAIN. O' Hare for
example has only one! Just look at the number of hijackings
that originated from Athens in the last 5-7 years (only 2)
and compare them with those of other Europian capitals
and of U.S. (at least an order of magnitude higher)...
5- One of the Amals who were holding the hostages said that
the weapons were smuggled in the plain in Cairo, Egypt
and not in Athens. This was also supported by at least
one of the TWA crew.
these facts (and many other) make it clear that the entire thing was
just politics. sivan@aero.ARPA (Sivan Mahadevan ) (07/17/85)
In article <671@water.UUCP> jbtubman@water.UUCP (Jim Tubman [LPAIG]) writes: > >India was the real target of the Air India attack; Canadians aren't worth a >terrorist's time. It's a damn shame that Canadians were killed because of a >struggle on the other side of the world; a struggle that we could exert >little or no influence on anyway. (It's just as bad that Indians and >Japanese were killed, too.) > > Jim Tubman > University of Waterloo ----- By Canadians do you mean Canadian Citizens or Canadians of European ancestory? There were 279 "Canadians" on that flight but they were all of Indian origin. I guess that your use of the term Canadians is terribly confusing here. Sivan Mahadevan Computer Science Laboratory The Aerospace Corporation Los Angeles ARPA: sivan@aerospace UUCP: sivan@aero.uucp BELL: 213-648-6677
seshadri@t12tst.UUCP (Raghavan Seshadri) (07/18/85)
> From: jbtubman@water.UUCP (Jim Tubman [LPAIG]) > Date: 4 Jul 85 15:37:17 GMT > > India was the real target of the Air India attack; Canadians aren't worth a > terrorist's time. It's a damn shame that Canadians were killed because of a > struggle on the other side of the world; a struggle that we could exert > little or no influence on anyway. (It's just as bad that Indians and > Japanese were killed, too.) > > Jim Tubman > University of Waterloo Are you sure Canadians could influence matters very little? Sikh mobs had reduced the Indian consulate to shambles earlier.An Indian diplomat was seriously injured by attacks by Sikh gangs.Hostile and tendentious propa ganda went on for many months and funds were (and are) collected openly to carry out terrorist operations in India and elsewhere.For how long is Canada going to pretend that she has nothing to do with the matter?If you harbor snakes do not be shocked when you get bitten. -- Raghu Seshadri
faust@osu-eddie.UUCP (Mitch Faust) (07/18/85)
> The only way to be absolutely sure of a flight's safety abroad > would be to have the US air carriers have their own security, > assigned to each plane. They'd have a vested interest in doing > a good job because they'd be on that flight! > > In foriegn "black star" airports, the loading time for baggage > would have to be extended to allow for fine-screening of all > baggage coming on board. No locals allowed. > That would piss-off many different airports, but it is one of > only a few ways to get a real handle on the situation. > > The news last night (7/11) carried a story on new increased > security when it came to carry-on luggage and how it would > mean limits on size and amount (which already exists, to a > certain extent). What is stupid about that whole idea is > that the hostage situation came about because of lax internal > security and corruption at the airport level. *** REPLACE THIS LINE WITH YOUR OWN SECURITY CHIEF *** Speaking of ways to improve security...I just returned from Isreal where the airport security is the best I have ever seen. On leaving the U.S. there where Isreali security people checking your passports and asking questions like; why are you traveling to Isreal?... Did anyone ask you to take something with you..Did you pack your own bags?..ect. and every piece of luggage was ex-rayed. Up on leaving Israel I got the same treatment. Does it work... well as I understand it there has'nt been a hijacking of an Isreali airline in a number of years. Comments?? ________________________________________________________________ Mitchell Faust -- Just a scaler in a vector world.
srm@nsc.UUCP (Richard Mateosian) (07/19/85)
When we flew from Orly airport (Paris) to Dallas last week, all passengers
were required to go down to the tarmac to identify their baggage before
it was placed on the plane. Unidentified baggage was left behind.
All around the passenger areas were signs saying "For your own safety, do
not accept baggage from any other person."
--
Richard Mateosian
{cbosgd,fortune,hplabs,ihnp4,seismo}!nsc!srm nsc!srm@decwrl.ARPA