lord_zar@ucrmath.ucr.edu (wayne wallace) (10/01/90)
That must have gotten your attention. Now, here's the idea: All you Shareware/PD people out there who enjoy programming and giving VERY nice games to the public, well why haven't YOU done anything ? Mule was approx 1/3 of a C-64 disk, which is 170K / 3 = 58.66666 = 59K. Now, When I see things like the NewTek Demo taking nearly 2 full Amiga disks, and Star Trek II by Jimbo Barber taking around the same, and even some tetris clones larger than M.U.L.E. on the C-64, well, WHAT HAVE YOU BEEN DOING ?????? SOMEONE out there probably has their old C-64 and M.U.L.E. carefully stuffed away in the closet, so USE IT!!!!!! Plug it in, and pull out your favorite version of C or whatever!!!!!!! Jeez, what does it take to make you guys sit up and help out ? Shareware, maybe ? Hey, I'm willing to put up $5-$15 or a teensy bit more for it!! Anyone else out there ? * // Only /\ |Lord Zar,Commander Of All He Surveys|Stay Alert! Trust * *\\ // /--\MIGA |(and hater of spaces near commas.) |No One! Keep--AHHHH* * \X/ Internet: lord_zar@ucrmath.ucr.edu QuantumLink & Portal: Lord_Zar * * "NOT THE ALLUDIUM Q36 EXPLOSIVE SPACE MODULATOR!" "Yes!" - Wayne and Martin * ******************************************************************************* *Don't think of them as pedestrians, think of them as semi-mobile speed bumps.* *-Lord Teka * *******************************************************************************
farren@well.sf.ca.us (Mike Farren) (10/02/90)
lord_zar@ucrmath.ucr.edu (wayne wallace) writes: >That must have gotten your attention. Now, here's the idea: >All you Shareware/PD people out there who enjoy programming and giving VERY >nice games to the public, well why haven't YOU done anything ? >Mule was approx 1/3 of a C-64 disk, which is 170K / 3 = 58.66666 = 59K. >SOMEONE out there probably has their old C-64 and M.U.L.E. carefully stuffed >away in the closet, so USE IT!!!!!! >Plug it in, and pull out your favorite version of C or whatever!!!!!!! >Anyone else out there ? Well, Dan Bunten, the guy that wrote it originally, isn't out there (as far as I know), but he'd likely be very interested if someone ripped off his game... Instead of redoing M.U.L.E., you could find Dan and get him to do it, or you could do your own game, something someone's never seen before. Who knows, it might be just that good. -- Mike Farren farren@well.sf.ca.us
bscott@nyx.UUCP (Ben Scott) (10/02/90)
In article <lord_zar.654733038@ucrmath> lord_zar@ucrmath.ucr.edu (wayne wallace) writes: >All you Shareware/PD people out there who enjoy programming and giving VERY >nice games to the public, well why haven't YOU done anything ? >Mule was approx 1/3 of a C-64 disk, which is 170K / 3 = 58.66666 = 59K. [...] >tetris clones larger than M.U.L.E. on the C-64, well, WHAT HAVE YOU BEEN >DOING ?????? It wouldn't be that easy. Most of the greatness of MULE was in it's exquisitely balanced rules and parameters - like the classic Monopoly. One would have to duplicate it precisely, which would be illegal, or there would be no point in bothering. >Jeez, what does it take to make you guys sit up and help out ? Shareware, >maybe ? Hey, I'm willing to put up $5-$15 or a teensy bit more for it!! If you see it as so easy, YOU do it. >* "NOT THE ALLUDIUM Q36 EXPLOSIVE SPACE MODULATOR!" "Yes!" - Wayne and Martin * I don't know about that particular quote but the original was "Illudium"... . <<<<Infinite K>>>> -- .---------------------------------------------------------------------------. |Ben Scott, professional goof-off and consultant at The Raster Image, Denver| |Amiga UUCP node domain: bscott@vila.denver.co.us Else: bscott@nyx.cs.du.edu| |FIDO point address 1:104/421.2, or call the Arvada 68K BBS at (303)424-9831| |"Don't embarrass us..." "Have I ever?" - Buckaroo Banzai | *AMIGA POWER* | `---------------------------------------------------------------------------'
lord_zar@ucrmath.ucr.edu (wayne wallace) (10/03/90)
farren@well.sf.ca.us (Mike Farren) writes: >lord_zar@ucrmath.ucr.edu (wayne wallace) writes: >>That must have gotten your attention. Now, here's the idea: >>All you Shareware/PD people out there who enjoy programming and giving VERY >>nice games to the public, well why haven't YOU done anything ? >>Mule was approx 1/3 of a C-64 disk, which is 170K / 3 = 58.66666 = 59K. >>SOMEONE out there probably has their old C-64 and M.U.L.E. carefully stuffed >>away in the closet, so USE IT!!!!!! >>Plug it in, and pull out your favorite version of C or whatever!!!!!!! >>Anyone else out there ? >Well, Dan Bunten, the guy that wrote it originally, isn't out there (as far >as I know), but he'd likely be very interested if someone ripped off his >game... >Instead of redoing M.U.L.E., you could find Dan and get him to do it, or >you could do your own game, something someone's never seen before. Who >knows, it might be just that good. >-- >Mike Farren farren@well.sf.ca.us Yah, in a few years, if I ever get time off from school programming. Maybe once my C knowledge is good, and I study my Amy a bit more.... However: Do you all agree Monopoly is copyrighted ? Yes, you do. Because it is. And of course, you know Parker Brothers recently (within the past few years) licensed some company or the othe to do computer versions of Monopoly, Risk, and I think something else. Now, Tell me this: Why does Portal (cup.portal.com) carry a Monopoly clone NAMED MONOPOLY for the Amiga under their Amiga PD & Shareware game area ? Surely that is a copyright infringement! Portal also carries Tetris(tm) clones!!! And they KNOW what happened to Fred Fish! We Portalites get full USENET news & email, ya know. Plus Clarinet now...... So: the case boils down to this: Portal has lots (well, enough to survive a lawsuit w/ Spectrum Holobyte if they refuse to remove Tetris(tm) clones) of $$, and Fred Fish, as ONE private ~middle class citizen doesn't have the $$ to face off vs SH's lawyers. MONEY MAKES RIGHT. At least, until we reach the Supreme Court on this. Actually, we can't. Computer GAMES are entertainment, not email or novels written with computers instead of pencil and pen. So: Someone please tell Dan Bunten to lease M.U.L.E. programming rights for the Amiga else someone does it before him, and makes it PD too. Although since EA produced the game, methinks it would lie with them. Remember the Interplay/EA thingie ? EA owns the NAME of Bard's Tale, but Interplay owns the PROGRAMMING. And, since EA owns only M.U.L.E., you could call the game D.O.N.K.E.Y., and since, as someone emailed me, M.U.L.E. was written is ASSEMBLY on the C-64 & Atari 400/800/whatever, a C version for the AMIGA does not and can not duplicate any of the original programming. Look how many Flight Simulators and other simulations exist! Is each Flight Simulator infringing on a copyright because you're flying a plane in each game ? NO! So a game of a futuristic mining town is totally legal. FACTS: 1. No programmer out there is stupid enough to write in assembly on the Amiga when C is available or "Benchmark Modula-2" (used in Jimbo Barber's excellent $5 Shareware Star Trek II game) or something better. 2. Generalized ideas can't be copyrighted, else only one style of car, home, computer, TV, etc would be allowed. 3. Dan Bunten is entirely out of the Commercial Entertainment Programming field (referring to things on store shelves as opposed to writing a specific game for a specific company). He owns only original C-64 & Atari 400/800 ASSEMBLY code. He has NO license on C code for same unless he secretly copyrighted it and never told the world. 4. E.A. owns the word "M.U.L.E.". NOTHING ELSE (except for packaging, the instruction manual, etc.). 5. Calling it a "M.U.L.E." clone and telling people to buy M.U.L.E. might help stave off copyright suits. That is what the author of Zerg 1.0 did. His game is an Ultima I clone and he said so in his docs. He also says it is PD, and hopes that by urging people to buy the Ultima series (although POORLY programmed so far (up to IV)for the Amiga) from Origin Systems, he can't be sued, since he is getting no money and is freely advertising the Ultima series. Now: I want rebuttals posted here!!!!!!!! Take apart this post LINE BY LINE!!! I dare all of you to come up with EXACT quotes from U.S. copyright law that would contradict ANY of the above facts. Just IMHO, * // Only /\ |Lord Zar,Commander Of All He Surveys|Stay Alert! Trust * *\\ // /--\MIGA |(and hater of spaces near commas.) |No One! Keep--AHHHH* * \X/ Internet: lord_zar@ucrmath.ucr.edu QuantumLink & Portal: Lord_Zar * * "NOT THE ALLUDIUM Q36 EXPLOSIVE SPACE MODULATOR!" "Yes!" - Wayne and Martin * Oh yeah, is it Alludium or Illudium ? Someone in a previous post claimed the "I", but where was there ever a word balloon in the original Bugs Bunny (tm) cartoon ? and last I knew (no periodic table here at the computer lab), there wasn't an element called *lludium either. I got my spelling from some post in r.g.frp, and without contradictory spelling until now it sounded ok (and I am a VERY good speller, I did the error checking on our gaming club's 103-page quarterly journal. Most of our articles were from the net, but some were original. Can you imagine spellchecking sets of story installments ? Ughhh! and with only vi and ispell to use. (I hate EMACS))
consp11@bingsuns.cc.binghamton.edu (Brett Kessler) (10/04/90)
In article <lord_zar.654890888@ucrmath>, lord_zar@ucrmath.ucr.edu (wayne wallace) writes: |>FACTS: |>1. No programmer out there is stupid enough to write in assembly on the |>Amiga when C is available or "Benchmark Modula-2" (used in Jimbo Barber's |>excellent $5 Shareware Star Trek II game) or something better. |> |>Now: |>I want rebuttals posted here!!!!!!!! |>Take apart this post LINE BY LINE!!! Well, I'll take apart the part that I know about. The part I'm referring to is the "fact" above, which is going to be construed by some as a rather obnoxious insult. Why is writing in assembly "stupid?" Because you don't like assembly? Because it's too hard to learn? Because you can't figure it out? There are plenty of us out here who LIKE programming in assembly, mainly because it creates faster, smaller, more efficient code. |>I dare all of you to come up with EXACT quotes from U.S. copyright law |>that would contradict ANY of the above facts. Asking for direct quotes is a bit unfair. You do, however, happen to be correct in your assumption that the idea can't be copyrighted, nor can a C port of the game to another platform be accused of plagarizing the original assembly code. But if the games are similar enough, lawsuits are going to come around anyway. Just ask Fred Fish. I have Tetrix, which other than falling blocks from the sky, was nothing like Tetris(tm). See if you can find Tetris in the PD now. +------///-+------------------| BRETT KESSLER |------------------+-\\\------+ | /// | consp11@bingvaxu.cc.binghamton.edu | \\\ | | \\\/// | consp11@bingvaxa.BITNET | \\\/// | | \XX/ | (PeopleLink) B.KESSLER | \XX/ | +----------+-----------------------------------------------------+----------+
mikkelsond@thwave.enet.dec.com (snopes) (10/04/90)
Not that anyone cares, but M.U.L.E. (in my opinion, one of the three best
computer games of all time, the others being Jumpman and Ali Baba) is due
to be released soon for one of those silly game systems (Nintendo, I believe).
- snopes
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
David P. Mikkelson |
Senior Software Specialist | Internet: mikkelsond@breakr.enet.dec.com
Mikkeldyne, Inc. | UUCP: !decwrl!breakr.dec.com!mikkelsond
Reseda, CA | Net worth: $11.34
|
(an illegal subsidiary of | The opinions expressed here are
Digital Equipment Corporation) | representative of humanity as a whole.
"It's a long day, livin' in Reseda . . ."
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------pat@mks.com (Pat Inglis) (10/05/90)
In article <65@decabo.enet.dec.com> mikkelsond@thwave.enet.dec.com (snopes) writes: > >Not that anyone cares, but M.U.L.E. (in my opinion, one of the three best >computer games of all time, the others being Jumpman and Ali Baba) is due >to be released soon for one of those silly game systems (Nintendo, I believe). > >David P. Mikkelson | >Senior Software Specialist | Internet: mikkelsond@breakr.enet.dec.com >Mikkeldyne, Inc. | UUCP: !decwrl!breakr.dec.com!mikkelsond >Reseda, CA | Net worth: $11.34 > | >(an illegal subsidiary of | The opinions expressed here are >Digital Equipment Corporation) | representative of humanity as a whole. > > "It's a long day, livin' in Reseda . . ." >------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I don't even want to think about the countless hours spent through the night, clutching the joystick, knuckles turning white, seeking revenge on those clammy little b*stards who kept getting all of the good plots of land...and that song played on: (sort of) Dunt da Bop-ba Dunt da Bop-ba Dunt da Bop-ba-bop-ba-bop-ba... Great game. If it does come out for the Amiga, I'm in. -- ___ I think that maybe I spent too much time watchin' TV and | __ =I= not enough time doin' the mambo. - Binky on his deathbed | / \[_]| ******************************************************** / \ \__/ I/|\ Pat Inglis: MKS Inc, Waterloo, Ontario, CAN. pat@mks.com
rjc@wookumz.ai.mit.edu (Ray Cromwell) (10/05/90)
One thing I hope the authors of MULE amiga do is add 1) Multitasking ability 2) Allow serial connections over any serial device. I just imagine using a dnet hacked serial device to play fellow amigans over a unix talk connection while multitasking the term and reading news. :-) Only the amiga could make this possible! Alas since its european it will probably be copy protected, take over the machine, and have a null modem link. -- "NeXTs are useless... Mac's are irrelevent.. IBM's are futile. Amiga's,however, are quite nice!" -Capt Jeal-Luc Amiga | Flames to /dev/null Ray Cromwell rjc@wookumz.ai.mit.edu | // AMIGA! \\ "Your software will adapt to service ours!"| \X/ AMIGA! \X/
sparks@corpane.UUCP (John Sparks) (10/06/90)
lord_zar@ucrmath.ucr.edu (wayne wallace) writes: >Why does Portal (cup.portal.com) carry a Monopoly clone NAMED MONOPOLY >for the Amiga under their Amiga PD & Shareware game area ? >Surely that is a copyright infringement! >Portal also carries Tetris(tm) clones!!! And they KNOW what happened >to Fred Fish! We Portalites get full USENET news & email, ya know. >Plus Clarinet now...... >So: the case boils down to this: >Portal has lots (well, enough to survive a lawsuit w/ Spectrum Holobyte if they >refuse to remove Tetris(tm) clones) of $$, and Fred Fish, as ONE private >~middle class citizen doesn't have the $$ to face off vs SH's lawyers. >MONEY MAKES RIGHT. At least, until we reach the Supreme Court on this. Well, as a person who works with an online computer service like portal (but smaller) I can tell you that it: a> is nearly impossible to keep track of all the files available for down loading and what their status is. b> impossible to keep up with news. The management is too busy trying to run the company to do much reading of usenet. so it's more than likely that the Portal management doesn't know that there has been a problem with Tetris clones or Monopoly clones or that those files even exist on their machines. If you point these facts out to the sysop responsible for the amiga files, I bet he will delete them. -- John Sparks |D.I.S.K. Public Access Unix System| Multi-User Games, Email sparks@corpane.UUCP |PH: (502) 968-DISK 24Hrs/2400BPS | Usenet, Chatting, =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-|7 line Multi-User system. | Downloads & more. A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of----Ogden Nash
joseph@valnet.UUCP (Joseph P. Hillenburg) (10/08/90)
Ok. How do I get onto cup.portal.com? Is it possible to telnet to it? -Joseph Hillenburg UUCP: ...iuvax!valnet!joseph ARPA: valnet!joseph@iuvax.cs.indiana.edu INET: joseph@valnet.UUCP
bscott@isis.cs.du.edu (Ben Scott) (10/11/90)
In article <lord_zar.654890888@ucrmath> lord_zar@ucrmath.ucr.edu (wayne wallace) writes: >Yah, in a few years, if I ever get time off from school programming. >Maybe once my C knowledge is good, and I study my Amy a bit more.... And there are lots of other people who have things to do besides write a MULE game. Me for one. >Do you all agree Monopoly is copyrighted ? Not the way you mean. The name is copyrighted and the game pieces and board are patented. Patents don't last forever (17 years I think?). Or something like that. >Why does Portal (cup.portal.com) carry a Monopoly clone NAMED MONOPOLY >for the Amiga under their Amiga PD & Shareware game area ? >Surely that is a copyright infringement! So what do they care if it is? (which I doubt) Who's going to check, or report them? >Portal also carries Tetris(tm) clones!!! And they KNOW what happened >to Fred Fish! We Portalites get full USENET news & email, ya know. Exactly. They don't particularly have to worry about it, and Spectrum Holobyte's case is vague in places. >Portal has lots (well, enough to survive a lawsuit w/ Spectrum Holobyte if they >refuse to remove Tetris(tm) clones) of $$, and Fred Fish, as ONE private Well... you're slightly missing the point. What Mr. Fish did and what Portal is doing are two somewhat different cases. >MONEY MAKES RIGHT. At least, until we reach the Supreme Court on this. > >Actually, we can't. Computer GAMES are entertainment, not email or novels >written with computers instead of pencil and pen. The laws are just as binding. Computer games are creations, products, they are written, and creations of a definable person or set of people. >Someone please tell Dan Bunten to lease M.U.L.E. programming rights >for the Amiga else someone does it before him, and makes it PD too. >Although since EA produced the game, methinks it would lie with >them. Remember the Interplay/EA thingie ? Oh, just "tell" him? What kind of gun will you use for encouragement? Besides, the rights may or may not lie with him - it depends on the contract and what he and they did with it once he left the company. >and since, as someone emailed me, M.U.L.E. was written is ASSEMBLY on the >C-64 & Atari 400/800/whatever, a C version for the AMIGA does not and can >not duplicate any of the original programming. Look how many Flight It can duplicate the same algorithms, constants, graphic appearance, game play, the old "look and feel" that Apple made so popular... >Simulators and other simulations exist! >Is each Flight Simulator infringing on a copyright because you're flying >a plane in each game ? NO! Nope - because no flight simulator was written by anyone who created the cocept of heavier-than-air flight. And the concept of heavier-than-air flight was not patented or otherwise restricted to one person. >So a game of a futuristic mining town is totally legal. So long as it didn't resemble anything you don't have the rights to, sure. A futuristic mining town by itself is not a copyrighted concept. >FACTS: >1. No programmer out there is stupid enough to write in assembly on the >Amiga when C is available or "Benchmark Modula-2" (used in Jimbo Barber's Unfortunately, you're wrong here too. But in any case Amiga assembler is much different from 6502 assem. >2. Generalized ideas can't be copyrighted, else only one style of car, >home, computer, TV, etc would be allowed. Oh, yes they can if the person wants. But you would find it difficult to patent or copyright a basic concept unless you created it in the first place. Also, things like TVs, cars, etc. are patented, and you can only patent specific implementations of a design. Well, pretty much. "Implementation" can, in many cases, amount to the whole of the idea. >3. Dan Bunten is entirely out of the Commercial Entertainment Programming >field (referring to things on store shelves as opposed to writing a specific >game for a specific company). He owns only original C-64 & Atari 400/800 >ASSEMBLY code. He has NO license on C code for same unless he secretly Perhaps, but he also may own the rights to the MULE concept. Either he or EA or SOMEBODY does. >4. E.A. owns the word "M.U.L.E.". NOTHING ELSE (except for packaging, >the instruction manual, etc.). We've been over this before. They may or may not own it, and/or more. Try asking them. >5. Calling it a "M.U.L.E." clone and telling people to buy M.U.L.E. might >help stave off copyright suits. That is what the author of Zerg 1.0 Well, it might since EA is not Apple or Microsoft, but it may not. >Take apart this post LINE BY LINE!!! I did this in Email (to you? To someone who sent me a real similar message at any rate) once already. >I dare all of you to come up with EXACT quotes from U.S. copyright law >that would contradict ANY of the above facts. The burden of proof is on you. I admit I don't know the laws backward and forward but I'm fairly certain on the areas I've posted above - I do have some (long) past experience in these matters. Anyway, I'm not the one trying to make a point, you are. You prove it to me. >Just IMHO, Gee, I'd hate to see something you were SURE about... >Oh yeah, is it Alludium or Illudium ? >Someone in a previous post claimed the "I", but where was there ever >a word balloon in the original Bugs Bunny (tm) cartoon ? Sounded like Illudium to me. >and last I knew (no periodic table here at the computer lab), there wasn't >an element called *lludium either. Suprise, suprise... the Encyclopedia doesn't even have a reference to any type of modulator, explosive space- or otherwise, which can vaporize the Earth. Perhaps it never existed? . <<<<Infinite K>>>> -- |Ben Scott, professional goof-off and consultant at The Raster Image, Denver| |FIDO point address 1:104/421.2, bscott@nyx.cs.du.edu, or BBS (303)424-9831 | |"Quantum Mechanics: The dreams that || The Raster Image IS responsible for| | stuff is made of..." - Michael Sinz || everything I say! ** Amiga Power**|