252u3130@fergvax.unl.edu (Phil Dietz) (11/08/90)
I have to say that almost ALL the decent and PLAYABLE games made are for
my NES rather then my Amiga. Just because it lacks those few extra
colors and those few extra sounds, the NES easily makes up in game
SPEED, CONTROL, and PLAYABILITY. Games like Sup Mario 1, 2, 3, SNK
BaseBall, and TechmoWrestling are just incredible playable games. I
have yet to see anm Amiga game that compares to these....
I'd take a FAST, CONTROLABLE, and PLAYABLE game in 4 colors if the Amiga
had it. I've found that covering a poor game design with extra graphics
and music doesn't really help at all.
The reason we are not seeing games that fulfill the Amigas potential is
BECAUSE THE AMIGA IT TOO COMPLEX! If a game were to use all the special
hardware that the amiga uses, and the game was to have incredible music
and graphix, WE"D BE PAYING FOR IT. You have to keep in mind that the
programmers of these games are just like you and me...designing great
graphix alone takes an immense amount of time alone...Take alook at the
SEGA....it's games are really beautiful looking with great music
(designed on the amiga by the way) but EACH GAME COSTS AROUND 45-55
dollars!
True...I want to see great games for the Amiga, but I have a feeling we
wont be seeing SEGA 16-bit quality ones cauz Amiga owners aren't GAME
players like the SEGA market....
Phil Dietz
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252u3130@fergvax.unl.edu (402)421-1963 AMIGA, IBM, MAC, GIFS
IBM'ers and Mac'ers are shopping for a life. Amiga the best!stelmack@screamer.csee.usf.edu (Gregory M. Stelmack) (11/08/90)
I have to respond with a different view of NES vs. Amiga (having had both played very extensively around the dorm): I didn't like NES games for a couple of reasons, almost all of which I trace to what seemed to be sloppy programming: Most games had a lot of flickering of images, the kind you get when too many objects are on the same scan line. Really distracting when your opponent keeps coming and going. Lots of "tricks" that smack of unfixed bugs. Like, for instance, Double Dragon, where if you get the bat and can get an opponent just off the screen in the construction area, you can get infinite points by swinging at the edge of the screen. That's one example, but we ran into LOTS of these. Half the fun of an NES game seemed to be finding all the bugs that made the game impossible to lose. There seems to be only one major Nintendo game (well, a few others, but the point made here holds): Most games consist of running around levels (all are side views) collecting lives, killing opponents with your weapon, and defeating a large monster at the end of the level. Oh, yeah, and find the bugs that make it easy. Having said that, I will say that I found the Zelda series to be a refreshing change from my usual adventure game and spent many fun hours playing it. However, most of the others got boring because they all seemed the same. Anyway, thanks for listening to an opposing view... -- Greg Stelmack -- Email: stelmack@sol.csee.usf.edu -- USmail: USF Box 1510, Tampa, FL 33620-1510 -- Amiga: the only way to compute! -- IRAQNOPHOBIA: Nothing a little RAID wouldn't cure!
brian@sky.COM (Brian Pelletier) (11/09/90)
In article <1990Nov07.170527.19872@hoss.unl.edu> 252u3130@fergvax.unl.edu (Phil Dietz) writes: >I have to say that almost ALL the decent and PLAYABLE games made are for >my NES rather then my Amiga. Just because it lacks those few extra >colors and those few extra sounds, the NES easily makes up in game >SPEED, CONTROL, and PLAYABILITY. Games like Sup Mario 1, 2, 3, SNK Do you ever *read* the messages here before posting stuff like this? It seems a lot of people (like me) have found MANY good, playable Amiga games. Turrican ($24) blows away any NES or Sega game of its type. >had it. I've found that covering a poor game design with extra graphics >and music doesn't really help at all. True, and sadly there are some games like this. But you're being naive if you discount the whole Amiga game market because of a few bad programs. >The reason we are not seeing games that fulfill the Amigas potential is >BECAUSE THE AMIGA IT TOO COMPLEX! If a game were to use all the special Too complex???? If that argument were true you'd never see any coin-op games either. Talk about complex (and non-standard)..... >True...I want to see great games for the Amiga, but I have a feeling we >wont be seeing SEGA 16-bit quality ones cauz Amiga owners aren't GAME >players like the SEGA market.... So now the owners are designing the games? :-) Have fun with your Nintendo..... -Brian Brian Pelletier, Hardware guy | Disclaimer: These are MY opinions, not SKY's. Sky Computer Chelmsford, MA | if(!Amiga){printf("Why bother?");} UUCP: brian@sky.com (work) | Plink: TACK
252u3130@fergvax.unl.edu (Phil Dietz) (11/09/90)
The Amiga has its occasional GOOD game, but I should emphasize
occasional. True, turrican is really nice, but is it in the Super Mario
category of the NES. It might closely compare to Mario 1 but it DOES
NOT EVEN COME CLOSE to number 3. Mario 3 is a 3+ meg cartridge. It
features graphix artist graphics and the sounds were digitized right off
of a Moog synthesizer! There are tons of levels, each with its own
hidden nooks and crannies....its a wonderful game.....
I'd just like to see these games made on my Amiga. I dont want a lamey
port or a half-ass attempt. But because of our economy and the way we
Amigans are, I doubt we'll ever see them.....
To make a profit, most software agencies CUT CORNERS. Instead of
spending those extra 6-months and hiring specialized groups to design
the graphics and sound (like nintendo), they release the product before
they go bankrupt. The game market is very very small for the Amiga.
The software groups have hardly any incentive to spend the extra time in
development....I wish they did....
Phil Dietz
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252u3130@fergvax.unl.edu (402)421-1963 AMIGA, IBM, MAC, GIFS
IBM'ers and Mac'ers are shopping for a life. Amiga the best!garrett@cs.rochester.edu (Bill Garrett) (11/09/90)
You've been reading too much hypo about the current batch of video
game machines. Firstly, SMB3 is a 3meg game. A 3megabit game that
is, which in NORMAL computer terms translates to under 512K. I believe
that the majority of Amiga games contain far more data than this when
you consider that when a dedicated machine says 3meg they are also referring
to sound and graphics which are normally stored externally on home computer
games. Secondly, it depends on what you like, I personally do not
go for the mario quest type of game and in addition see no reason
why you need more then one set of them, I mean there is no real
reason to have both SMB and Zelda and Castlevania, ad nausem. If they
were in the computer world someone would probably sue for look and
feel infringement. Secondly graphics on most units still are nowhere
near as good as amiga graphics, in particular the NES can't even touch
a reasonably equipped PC (enhanced CGA or EGA) much less the amiga.
In terms of sheer quantity the machines also don't make it. Only
the NES has more then 100 titles (the NES has something like 312 titles).
And I believe that the AMY has more titles then even the NES especially
if we count imports (maybe so maybe not) If you want games with any
depth and anything resembling intelligence then the AMY is obviously
your choice. Try comparing KOEI's cut down games such as Romance Kings
of Ancient China on the AMY and the NES and see which you prefer. The NES
is also slow, ever try to play chess on a NES. This is all as it should
be since AMY costs several times as much as NES, but the NES's games
typically cost much more then an AMY game through mail-order. So thanks
but no thanks, I wouldn't trade in for a NeXt much less a NES.
--
Bill Garrett ARPA: garrett@cs.rochester.edu
University of Rochester UUCP: {decvax,rutgers}!rochester!garrett
Rochester NY 14627 VOX: (716) 275-5605stelmack@screamer.csee.usf.edu (Gregory M. Stelmack) (11/09/90)
In article <1990Nov08.220435.28856@hoss.unl.edu> 252u3130@fergvax.unl.edu (Phil Dietz) writes: >The Amiga has its occasional GOOD game, but I should emphasize >occasional. True, turrican is really nice, but is it in the Super Mario >category of the NES. It might closely compare to Mario 1 but it DOES >NOT EVEN COME CLOSE to number 3. Mario 3 is a 3+ meg cartridge. It >features graphix artist graphics and the sounds were digitized right off >of a Moog synthesizer! There are tons of levels, each with its own >hidden nooks and crannies....its a wonderful game..... > >I'd just like to see these games made on my Amiga. I dont want a lamey >port or a half-ass attempt. But because of our economy and the way we >Amigans are, I doubt we'll ever see them..... > Have you ever seen the Great Ghianna Sisters (I think that's how it's spelled)? A Mario-Bros. clone for the Amiga with all kinds of added features (guided shots, etc.) The playability is real good, and it has all those nifty hidden things that makes Mario pretty good. Anyway, it just shows that the Amiga CAN do all that, plus...I'd like to see your Nintendo play Harpoon, or Falcon, or F-16 Combat Pilot, or... -- Greg Stelmack -- Email: stelmack@sol.csee.usf.edu -- USmail: USF Box 1510, Tampa, FL 33620-1510 -- Amiga: the only way to compute! -- IRAQNOPHOBIA: Nothing a little RAID wouldn't cure!
farren@well.sf.ca.us (Mike Farren) (11/10/90)
252u3130@fergvax.unl.edu (Phil Dietz) writes: >To make a profit, most software agencies CUT CORNERS. Instead of >spending those extra 6-months and hiring specialized groups to design >the graphics and sound (like nintendo), they release the product before >they go bankrupt. The game market is very very small for the Amiga. >The software groups have hardly any incentive to spend the extra time in >development....I wish they did.... Your view of the games business is laughable. I'd suggest you learn some actual facts before you post in future. (This is actually a selfish suggestion - I don't want to laugh until I'm sick any more :-) Every game company I know of that is at all large (meaning bigger than three guys in a garage) has a specialized staff to do graphics and music. No game company I've ever heard of (at least, none that have lasted longer than one game) would EVER release a product before they thought it was ready - although there are some whose idea of "ready" is sadly deficient. Besides, and more to the point, the same considerations apply to Nintendo game developers that apply to Amiga game developers (or, for that matter, IBM PC game developers). The Nintendo systems might sell more copies, to be sure - but the game development is the same. Your contention that, somehow, Nintendo developers are more expert than Amiga developers is simply ridiculous. As far as the game market vs. the Amiga, you are simply off base entirely. As closely as I can determine, the Amiga is very close to being the number two market of ALL computers for games, right after the IBM PC. If the game market for the Amiga is so small, how do you explain my royalty checks? (BTW - the last game I did for the Amiga, SSI's STORM ACROSS EUROPE, has been significantly more successful than either I or SSI expected - thanks, guys!) -- Mike Farren farren@well.sf.ca.us
dms@sactoh0.SAC.CA.US (David M. Schwartz) (11/12/90)
Compare the NES to an Amiga?! Oh, please, haven't you seen SHADOW OF THE BEAST I and II, BLOOD MONEY (for that matter all of the PSYGNOSIS games), CHAMPIONS OF KRYNN, BATTLE CHESS, DRAKKHEN, UNREAL, DRAGON's LAIR, DUNGEON MASTER, IT CAME FROM THE DESERT, etc. etc. There isn't any comparison, NES isn't even in the same league as the Amiga! -- ############################################################# # As soon as I discover this, # SAC-*NIX, Sacramento, Ca. # # I will change it! # UUCP=..ames!pacbell!sactoh0 # ########################default .sig#########################
dms@sactoh0.SAC.CA.US (David M. Schwartz) (11/12/90)
becoming the Amiga. Two examples: Both SEGA for the GENESIS, and EPYX/ ATARI for the LYNX use the Amiga for game development, not a PC, not a MAC....but an AMIGA!! -- ############################################################# # As soon as I discover this, # SAC-*NIX, Sacramento, Ca. # # I will change it! # UUCP=..ames!pacbell!sactoh0 # ########################default .sig#########################
252u3130@fergvax.unl.edu (Phil Dietz) (11/13/90)
In article <4305@sactoh0.SAC.CA.US> dms@sactoh0.SAC.CA.US (David M. Schwartz) writes: >becoming the Amiga. Two examples: Both SEGA for the GENESIS, and EPYX/ >ATARI for the LYNX use the Amiga for game development, not a PC, not a >MAC....but an AMIGA!! EXACTLY! So why aren't they made for the Amiga if they were designed with an Amiga?? I'd love to see Mike Reiley's Baseball, Buster "loser" Douglas boxing, Joe Montana Football, Tommy Lesorda Baseball!!!!!! What gives. <<<=================--------- Cheap Ad ---------===================<<< Phil Dietz SWL Lincoln 565 MEGS! 2 lines 252u3130@fergvax.unl.edu (402)421-1963 AMIGA, IBM, MAC, GIFS IBM'ers and Mac'ers are shopping for a life. Amiga the best!
ifarqhar@sunc.mqcc.mq.oz.au (Ian Farquhar) (11/14/90)
In article <1990Nov08.220435.28856@hoss.unl.edu> 252u3130@fergvax.unl.edu (Phil Dietz) writes: >NOT EVEN COME CLOSE to number 3. Mario 3 is a 3+ meg cartridge. It >features graphix artist graphics and the sounds were digitized right off >of a Moog synthesizer! There are tons of levels, each with its own >hidden nooks and crannies....its a wonderful game..... I am amazed, the NES technical disinformation brigade is out in force now :-) Okay, the 3M is the first to go. Most game manufacturers measure cartridge size in *bits*, not bytes. This makes a 4Mbit cart the same as a 512K bytes. Not at all impressive. I would guess that, in this case, it is 256Kbytes of program, and 128K bytes of graphics. The expression "so what?!" leaps to mind. Now let's consider sound "digitized straight off a Moog Synthesiser". The moog synth was simply a series of interlinked oscillators and filters, and the quality of music that emminated from them could be matched in effect by the C64 SID chip. Why anyone would want to "digitize" a moog synth is quite beyond me. I suspect that Nintendo's use of the word "digitize" here does not mean what you think it does, BTW. I suspect it means "we programmed our sound system to sound like a moog synth because that's all it can do." As for the nooks and crannies, you parade them as a virtue. Half of them are Nintendo bugs (that company is famous for some of its unintentional game tricks). As for your later assertion that Nintendo manufacturers are bigger so they can put more money into development, this is quite true. They have to start off with more money: Nintendo protects carts with a "lock-out" chip that they sell to cart suppliers. So every time you buy a Nintendo cart, you are also paying money back to Nintendo. In effect, developers pay Nintendo money for the privalege of producing games for that system. Standard disclaimers apply, as usual. My comments are my own. -- Ian Farquhar Phone : 61 2 805-9404 Office of Computing Services Fax : 61 2 805-7433 Macquarie University NSW 2109 Also : 61 2 805-7205 Australia EMail : ifarqhar@suna.mqcc.mq.oz.au
dtiberio@csserv2.ic.sunysb.edu (David Tiberio) (11/18/90)
The Amiga was not used just to develop the SEGA Genesis and the Lynx. It was also used to develop the Macintosh II, since they use the same processor and only the Amiga had color (as opposed to other Macs). I understand why you say Super Mario is more playable and controllable. The C64 version of it paused everytime the player fired a weapon. It just goes to show that a)the best games go where the profit is and b)another programmer would have made it completely differently. Some programmers are good at making programs that are easy to use, others are not. That does not mean that IN GENERAL Amiga programmers are bad, it just means that Nintendo wants you to buy the better version along with a Nintendo. If I made a Mac or IBM equivilant of my Amiga software, a)it would not be as good due to the features of the Amiga I am used to and b) I wouldn't WANT to make it any good! The Amiga is the first affordable computer that has the potential to do ANYTHING, from running TV Stations to keeping track of coupons. :) David Tiberio SUNY Stony Brook 2-3605 AMIGA
farren@well.sf.ca.us (Mike Farren) (11/19/90)
dtiberio@csserv2.ic.sunysb.edu (David Tiberio) writes: > The Amiga was not used just to develop the SEGA Genesis and the Lynx. >It was also used to develop the Macintosh II, since they use the same >processor and only the Amiga had color (as opposed to other Macs). Funny, when I was working at Apple just before the Mac II came out, the only version of the Ami you could get was the 1000, and it didn't have a 68020 in it. Nor did Sam Dicker, ex-Amiga employee, even HINT that the Amiga was anywhere in evidence at Apple except for the one on his desk. I think you're off track, here... -- Mike Farren farren@well.sf.ca.us