t22918@ursa.calvin.edu (Matt Ranney) (02/21/91)
cosell@bbn.com (Bernie Cosell) writes: >I don't understand. What is it about the Amiga market that makes >non-installable the option of choice, but key-disk the one for the IBM >market? Why not at least make an HDable/keydisk version for the Amiga, >too? Are we _such_ clever theives??? [on the other hand, the >HD-decision is actually fine by me, since this game seems destined for >my wife's 386 instead of my 2000.] Well, I HAD to throw my two cents worth in this mess, so here goes.... What is it about the Amiga makret ...? Well, it's the fact that most of the game players that I know that own Amigas upgraded from a 64/128 system. This also places them GERERALLY in the high school to early college age. Most of these people bought their Amigas knowing full well that they could pirate hundreds of games from their friends -- that's why they bought them. Most of these people don't have hard drives, they have the basic A500, 1meg, 1 external 3.5 drive. Now, don't get me totally wrong, these people probably DO buy a game now and then: one that's either too hard to figure out without the instructions, or one they might not be able to find locally. Someone said before that most of the Amiga gamers haven't spoken out against non-HD installable games. I think this is correct. I also think that most of the legit. users (purchacers) of games don't have a hard drive, so why should they care? So, what to do about protection? Well, you've got two choices: 1: devise an uncrackable protection scheme that nobody can even touch. 2: send a honest, sincere, message to all the pirates in the world from all the programmes and software houses in the world, and hope to change the pirate's heart. Well, since this *IS* the real world here, none of the above are going to happen. Here's what I have learned from experience: There are two extremes to the pirate world, on one side, you've got the collectors. These people don't care what the game is, they just collect it. If it's a game for the Amiga, it's in their collection. They have probably never played the majority of their games, and they don't care, as long as they can get more games tomorow. These type of people feed the second type, who are the actual players. This type of pirate has around 50 disks, and fills them with fun games to play. When he or she is sick of one of thse games, or if a super ]<00L new game comes out, they'll delete one of their old games to get this new one. THIS is the type of person who would possible buy a game. The former would never consider it. Granted, there are many different divisions of these two types, but these are the two extremes. Now, how do you make a player-pirate want to buy a game? Simple, create games that seem to work until you really get into them, and then test for the copy protection. When I was on the 64, the few games that I bought (ok, I admit it, I _was_ a pirate, but hey, what else was the 64 good for?) were ones that loaded up fine, and were fine games to play, but once you got into the game a little, the game locked. Everybody thought the game worked, so they distributed it. If the bigtime collector-pirates got a new game, loaded it up and it worked, they probably would never play it, and would pass it on to many other people. These people will probably play it a little, and if they like it, get far enough in the game to hit the copy protection. If they like it enough, they'll probably go buy the game. If not, they probably wont ever play the game again. Please note the great number of "probably"s in there. I know this is a great oversimplification, but I think the theory is there. Are any software houses reading this? If so, what do you think? -- Matt Ranney mranney@wybbs.mi.org t22918@ursa.calvin.edu mranney@mole.ai.mit.edu (or any other FSF machine)
pilgrim@daimi.aau.dk (Jakob G}rdsted) (02/22/91)
t22918@ursa.calvin.edu (Matt Ranney) writes:
< Well, some things about the amigauser/pirate milieu
I basically agree with what you save, just want to add my .25 danske kroner
($.02)
The idea with the deferred copy protection is great, but it may be hard.
And it would be more suited for some game types than for others.
Some problems: It is harder to make several copy protections - that is
independent ones - when you disable one of them, the other two still works.
- Copyprotections can be hard to hide (the mechanism); I guess the crackers
have standard ways of looking for the testing stuff.
But the idea is great: That you miss important parts of the game. It can
be done in many ways, ever so slightly. Like the pirate player is Just that
bit more unlucky in the places that counts.
I'm not going to defend piracy, but have you(the general reader of this)ever
thought about, if it went both ways ? Imagine a game company could be dragged
in the court for releasing a really bad game, and still advertise telling
you what a great game you now MusT buy! Guess it will never be true; it is
still legal to make poor movie and receive money from people that wastes
2 hours of their lives on it. :-)
Oh, Yes, before I forget. I can confirm what you say about collectors and
gamers, from what I have experienced myself. But it is somewhat more complex,
at least what I have seen. As it seems to me(Denmark, Europe), the 50 disks
that the GAmer owns, is more likely to be 100-200. And there are several
serious applications among them.(But I know of GameOnlyAmiganoids too). And
turn those flamers off. I'm only telling you of what I know, not what I am.
I find relief in the fact, that there are games like Moria that are public
domain.(I know. It does not use much more than the memory of the amiga. but..)
The prices of software is too high, in europe in denmark in my opinion. It
irritates me, that I *have* to stick to budget releases in shops here. Luckily
it is strange games, that sometimes go all cheap(like 1/7 the original price).
I got archipelagos and anarchy this way, as an example.
--
From the notorious
Jakob Gaardsted, Computer Science Department
Bed og arbejd ! University of Aarhus, Jylland (!)
(Pray and work!)bakerj@gtephx.UUCP (Jon Baker) (03/02/91)
In article <t22918.667099471@ursa>, t22918@ursa.calvin.edu (Matt Ranney) writes: > Most of these people bought their Amigas knowing full > well that they could pirate hundreds of games from their friends -- > that's why they bought them. Most of these people don't have hard > drives, they have the basic A500, 1meg, 1 external 3.5 drive. I beg to differ. Of the numerous people I've counseled on personal computer purchases, most opt for IBMs because of the readily available free (read : pirated) software. They shun the Amiga because of the lack of such. IMO, pirating is a much greated problem in the IBM/clone arena that the Amiga arena, simply because of the greater proliferation of those things. BTW, just to add to the 'me too' list, I ain't buying Lemmings until it hits the $2 fire-sale rack. I won't pay $40 for a game that isn't HD installable and (for most cases) won't let me save a game in progress. I don't mind word-lookups, though, as long as they aren't too frequent or annoying. JB
sbeagle@kennels.actrix.gen.nz (Sleeping Beagle) (03/08/91)
bakerj@gtephx.UUCP (Jon Baker) writes: > In article <t22918.667099471@ursa>, t22918@ursa.calvin.edu (Matt Ranney) writ > IMO, pirating is a much greated problem in the IBM/clone arena that > the Amiga arena, simply because of the greater proliferation of those > things. Well, if I wanted to I can get equal amounts of PC, Amiga and Mac pirated software. It's actually easier and more pleasant to pirate on the Mac and PC because they tend to have friendlier software. (It also makes it worth buying.) BTW, I've just been playing (and finished) Wing Commander on the PC, does anyone know about an Amiga version coming out? -- Sleeping Beagle (aka Thomas Farmer) sbeagle@kennels.actrix.gen.nz The Kennels Ph. +64-4-796306 (voice) 25 Awarua St, Ngaio, Wellington, New Zealand. "You ain't nothin' but a Hound Dog."