val@netw23.uucp (Oberon Kenobi) (03/17/91)
Copy protection is bad for the consumer. What is bad for the consumer is
inherently bad for the company.
I make it a personal point to NOT BUY software that has disk-based
copy-protection. I've had too many personal experiences of games (fun games at
that) with disk based copy protection that died. This software is now useless
to me.
I am infatuated with "Lemmings." (I had occasion to play someone elses
copy.) I was ready to rush right to the software store to buy it, but alas, it
was from Psygnosis. The publisher doesn't discourage me, it's the disk-based
copy-protection. If people won't buy their software because of disk-based
copy-protection, then how will the company continue?
#pragma soapbox on
I would prefer no copy-protection, but there are those of little social
conscience. (i.e.: software pirates, thieves, murderers, etc..) I know a
rampant pirate that (says) he limits himself to only copy-protected software
that has no copy-protection (e.g.: pre-copy-protected version or removed by a
third party). This choice doesn't limit the others from whom he receives his
stolen (pirated) software. Q.E.D: Disk-based copy protection doesn't work.
#pragma soapbox off
As such, I am willing to live with other methods of copy-protection. Such
protection can include, but is not limited to: code wheels, xerox-resistant
(preceeding words intentionally left lowercase) code look-up sheets, manual
look-up, and even dongles WITH TRANSPARENT pass thru.
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| "vi? Because I don't have a real editor" -- U*x users | val@csulx.weber.edu |
================================================================================pondscum@zooid (Lima Bone) (03/21/91)
val@netw23.uucp (Oberon Kenobi) writes: > > Copy protection is bad for the consumer. What is bad for the consumer i > inherently bad for the company. > What about cigarrettes? I know this has nothing to do with comp.sys.amiga.games, but life is a game, n'est pa?(my french bites so no flames) Lima Bone My disclaimer is on vacation.
sschaem@starnet.uucp (Stephan Schaem) (03/21/91)
Are you serious about disk copy protection? I guess you dont know what are disk protection and how a floppy drive work, but let me explain... If the software die because the 'disk based protection die' then your disk simply died! With or WITHOUT a protection it would have happen!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Actually having a disk protection is transparent, I dont play games that us code whell since this really is #*#?!%# with the customer! And I dont know of one compagnie that dont replace domage ORIGINAL software.(but there must be some:-) If you know the latest Psynosis copy protection you will know that it doesnt use any 'tricks', simply take advantage of the curent standart of floppy drive.
cseaman@sequent.UUCP (Chris "The Bartman" Seaman) (03/28/91)
sschaem@starnet.uucp (Stephan Schaem) writes: < < Are you serious about disk copy protection? < I guess you dont know what are disk protection and how a floppy < drive work, but let me explain... < If the software die because the 'disk based protection die' then < your disk simply died! < With or WITHOUT a protection it would have happen!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! < Actually having a disk protection is transparent, I dont play games < that us code whell since this really is #*#?!%# with the customer! Apparently you don't understand the basis of everyone's complaint. Of course disks can fail. NO one argues that point. However, when the disk that fails is YOUR ONLY COPY of a program, the program is now useless. When you can make a BACKUP of the disk prior to using it, then all you need to to is make a new working copy, and you still have the program. < And I dont know of one compagnie that dont replace domage ORIGINAL < software.(but there must be some:-) Sure, most companies will replace an original, damaged disk, for five or ten dollars, plus the cost of postage, and the two-to-three week delay in getting the damaged disk to them, waiting for them to process it, and getting the new disk returned by mail. It seems easier to me to simply make a new copy myself (takes approximately 90 seconds). < If you know the latest Psynosis copy protection you will know that < it doesnt use any 'tricks', simply take advantage of the curent < standart of floppy drive. It doesn't matter HOW they implement their disk-based protection that is at issue. It is the mere fact that they do it at all. Regards, Chris -- Chris (Insert phrase here) Seaman | o\ /o See cseaman@sequent.com <or> | || "Attack of the Killer Smiley"! ...!uunet!sequent!cseaman | \vvvvvv/ Coming Soon | \____/ to a newsgroup near you!
kent@swrinde.nde.swri.edu (Kent D. Polk) (03/28/91)
In article <56219@sequent.UUCP> cseaman@sequent.UUCP (Chris "The Bartman" Seaman) writes: >sschaem@starnet.uucp (Stephan Schaem) writes: > >< If you know the latest Psynosis copy protection you will know that >< it doesnt use any 'tricks', simply take advantage of the curent >< standart of floppy drive. > >It doesn't matter HOW they implement their disk-based protection that >is at issue. It is the mere fact that they do it at all. Actually, HOW they implement is also a problem, as I haven't been able to run ANY commercial Psygnosis games on either my A1000 or the A2500/20 at work. They gronk the drive for a second & that's it - leaving the disk drive light on until I reboot. Now maybe the drives a a tad bit off, but Psygnosis games are the only software which has this problem. I have been able to run TKGS demo, but it is the only thing from Psygnosis that has booted up and run - at all. I have trouble believing I am the only one with this problem. Kent Polk: Southwest Research Institute (512) 522-2882 Internet : kent@swrinde.nde.swri.edu UUCP : $ {cs.utexas.edu, gatech!petro, sun!texsun}!swrinde!kent
sschaem@starnet.uucp (Stephan Schaem) (03/29/91)
What can I say! You see the effect on your side and I know the efect on my side. I got ALOT of games in my life, never made backup copy of them. (Not saying that its the right thing). 1 disk game dont offer alot of risk of user manipulation. But do you think it would help to put label likes: lifetime warranty We send games people order with next day shipping and its included in the ardvertized price, but we didn't put that since its to obvious! Like for disk warranty! I would say that if you go with that only backup point it not enought to make mutch difference the way software house think. All I know his alot try to do the BEST possible and people dont seem to care! Disk protection is still the best for the customer when he know he will alway have a working copie!. 10$! for handling! any floppy disk distribuotr or other can offer you lifetime warranty with your order. So even DragonLair should only include copy cost. I cant beleive 10$, or its a VERY special product! with 10disk and is located oversea etc... But copy protection will sell more copy of the game.That can mean more money for the next project to invest in! The only draw back with dis kprotection is you have to send it back if it even die. Stephan.
xanthian@zorch.SF-Bay.ORG (Kent Paul Dolan) (03/31/91)
kent@swrinde.nde.swri.edu (Kent D. Polk) writes: > cseaman@sequent.UUCP (Chris "The Bartman" Seaman) writes: >> sschaem@starnet.uucp (Stephan Schaem) writes: >>> If you know the latest Psynosis copy protection you will know that >>> it doesnt use any 'tricks', simply take advantage of the curent >>> standart of floppy drive. >> It doesn't matter HOW they implement their disk-based protection that >> is at issue. It is the mere fact that they do it at all. > Actually, HOW they implement is also a problem, as I haven't been able > to run ANY commercial Psygnosis games on either my A1000 or the > A2500/20 at work. They gronk the drive for a second & that's it - > leaving the disk drive light on until I reboot. Now maybe the drives a > a tad bit off, but Psygnosis games are the only software which has > this problem. > I have been able to run TKGS demo, but it is the only thing from > Psygnosis that has booted up and run - at all. I have trouble > believing I am the only one with this problem. My luck hasn't been quite this bad, but I let myself be seduced one time too many, and my copy of The Killing Game Show was dead on arrival; it would not boot on either my A1000 or my A2000. You are not alone. I'm much too mad to cope with trying to get a working copy, since I'm quite convinced no copy will work. In the meantime, the place I bought it, Go Amigo, was bought out and no longer, I'm told, maintain a store front. Lots of luck trying to get my money back by mail! Psygnosis - just say NO! Kent, the man from xanth. <xanthian@Zorch.SF-Bay.ORG> <xanthian@well.sf.ca.us> -- Lost Turrican I in four hours of play time, too. Grrr. Nuke Copy Protection! Up the Jolly Roger!
val@netw23.uucp (Oberon Kenobi) (03/31/91)
Since my original posting (article), there seems to be confusion about the
points that I was trying to make:
1) I won't buy software that has disk-based copy-protection because I
can't easily back it up. If the backup goes bad, then I can make another
backup. Long tracks store more data per track and therefore increase the
likelihood (statistically) of the data becoming unreadable. I also prefer
running it from the hard-drive from which it loads faster.
2) Some disk-based copy protection schemes actually cause DAMAGE to the
disk drive. This will eventually show in not being able to read some
normal disks. Generally, the more noise it makes while loading, the more
damage it is doing.
3) I, as one lowly consumer, don't expect to influence a software
company alone. If the company gets rid of disk-based copy-protection,
then that will be much better for me because I'll buy more entertainment
software. However, there has been a shift of American software publishers
away from disk-based copy protection. I wonder what could have caused
that?
In summary, I don't buy software that has disk-based copy-protection
because they cause me more inconvenience than non-disk-based copy protection.
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[ "vi? Because I don't have a real editor." - U*x users | val@csulx.weber.edu ]
================================================================================sss10@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Napalm) (04/01/91)
In article <1991Mar31.115656.16840@zorch.SF-Bay.ORG> xanthian@zorch.SF-Bay.ORG (Kent Paul Dolan) writes: > > kent@swrinde.nde.swri.edu (Kent D. Polk) writes: >> I have been able to run TKGS demo, but it is the only thing from >> Psygnosis that has booted up and run - at all. I have trouble >> believing I am the only one with this problem. > >My luck hasn't been quite this bad, but I let myself be seduced one time >too many, and my copy of The Killing Game Show was dead on arrival; it >would not boot on either my A1000 or my A2000. You are not alone. I'm >much too mad to cope with trying to get a working copy, since I'm quite >convinced no copy will work. In the meantime, the place I bought it, >Go Amigo, was bought out and no longer, I'm told, maintain a store front. > >Lots of luck trying to get my money back by mail! > >Psygnosis - just say NO! > >Kent, the man from xanth. ><xanthian@Zorch.SF-Bay.ORG> <xanthian@well.sf.ca.us> >-- >Lost Turrican I in four hours of play time, too. Grrr. >Nuke Copy Protection! Up the Jolly Roger! I have had no horror stories about any games, being that I only have a stock 500P and the only psygnosis games Ive played with on my machine were Nitro and Lemmings. I like lemmings but the only way I can keep backups of it is if I use my friends pirated copy <which incidentally is trained which makes it ALOT easier to play but thats another story> and use the pirated disks for backups. a few levels dont seem to work but ive heard thats because old original lemmings disks fuck up too, its not due to the fact that its a crack. Anyway, the original makes my drives gronk alot and make horrid noises which bother the fuck out of me and for no good reason. This would be the PERFECT game to multitask, i mean it has a pause, it doesnt continue untill you press the button to advance to the next level, and you can play continuously for about 5 minutes, which would be a boon to those who had HD's and lots of ram. Its a shame that psygnosis thinks using ndos disks will stop anyone- it sure didnt prevent me from obtaining a pirated copy and wont. I figure once I buy Populous and maybe 1 other game, then I'll stick to buying games without copy protection <and perhaps games that dont nuke the OS too and multitask but Ill take it 1 step at a time>
roddi@bruce.cs.monash.OZ.AU (Roddi Walker) (04/01/91)
Actually, I have a copy protection idea that doesn't screw the HD / accelerated machine owners: You rock up to your fave Lemmings dealer, and buy the damn game. If you are a humble floppy user, more joy to you, because you get the custom disk format that loads the game a damn sight faster than vanilla AmigaDOS would (I have a HD, but play off floppies - I find the disk accesses reasonably fast, especially with extra memory). However, in the box is also a glossy, colour impossible-to-duplicate voucher (serial numbered if you're paranoid so two people can't send the same one in) that lets you post of to Psygnosis (or their national distributor). The voucher would let you order a version of Lemmings ideally suited to your system - HD installable (== normal AmigaDOS, non-copy protected), works on '020 and '030 machines (Lemmings does this anyway, but on many other games, only the copy protection stops this - eg. Treasure Trap[1]), and even a multitasking version, for the power user with a fast CPU. Psygnosis then sends you a game, with an imbedded serial number (If (ha, "if") they're paranoid) so that you can use it, back it up, but not distribute it (the pirate copies would eventually get back to them, so they would know who to blame). I suppose Psygnosis would charge a minimal fee to cover their costs, but hey, I'd send them my money :-) Just a thought, Roddi [1] - The author posted here last year some time, and said that before copy protection was put on his game, it worked on the whole 680x0 family.
roger_earl@outbound.wimsey.bc.ca (Roger Earl) (04/05/91)
Well there is one problem with a mail-in to get the version of the game that specifically supports your hardware. What happens when you upgrade your hardware ?