colas@lemur.inria.fr (Colas Nahaboo) (04/03/91)
In article <1991Apr2.150457.27319@bellcore.bellcore.com>, quasar@bellcore.com (Laurence R. Brothers) writes: > Wizardry on the whole is a pretty nice game except for some user-interface > stupidity. What an understatement!!! Wizardry 6 is one of the crappiest piece of software I ever saw. I spent nights on Wizardy I and II on my apple II 10 years ago, but I just tried Wizardry 6 on my amiga, and was severely disapointed. PLEASE PEOPLE DON'T BUY IT -- Sir-Tech should be sued by consumer organizations for releasing such a user-despising product! - the gameplay has not improved in ten years. You still do not see monsters in advance, the graphics are essentially non-informative, and conveys little more information than the appleII line drawings. Positive points: you now see stairs from a distance... and you can save the game nearly anywhere (but not during a battle) - it is awfully mono-tasking: you can just sit there and do nothing till the "cute" monophonic sound-effect or animation ends. I actually had time to make me a coffee while 3 rats were dancing in front of me, disabling all my actions!!! At least on the apple II there were no such pauses in the game. It pauses for ages while telling "cute" messages, even with game speed to the max (delay=0). - It takes FIVE disks!!! - for storing non-compressed bitmaps, for more user-locking jerky anims... Without these stupid anims, which are the main cause for my gripes, WIz6 could well have been fitted one one disk. On the apple II it fitted on one 130K disk!!! At least disk-access is fast and OS-friendly, so that you can HD install, and use disk caches for floppy users. - the mouse interface is a total joke. For instance: - to choose a characters, it shows you all of them with their names in one window (there were alreadyu on the screen), then underneath it repeats the names only in a small window - You can ONLY click there!!! - menus have their items moving (disabled items are deleted, moving up the others), so that you cannot click fast, you must examine the menu each time! + tons and tons of utter stupidity... - the keyboard interface is a mess, what will be done when typing return is far from obvious. On the Apple II I never had a problem. - I could go on an on... Suffice to say that with the same user interface than Wiz1 on the apple II, the game would have been a LOT better. Everything they have added in 10 (TEN) years is bad design! Perhaps the plot is interesting, but it would have been better with a text-only interface... > Fortunately wizardry is not stupid enough to trap you into situations > in which you can't go back I got stuck in one the first time I played it. Why I posted this message: - I work in computer-human interface. Such things are appealing to me. - I totally loved Wizardry I on the apple II. I don't want other uninformed Wiz-lovers (like me) to give their money to these thiefs (I didn't). - It is a shame that these people could make any money out of it when companies with user respect and decent beta-test such as cinemaware go broke. - That this software could have brought a single buck to its authors is an insult to FTL (DM and CSB authors) and others... Now you can go on and flame me, I don't care -- If by this message I could prevent at least one people to buy this game, then it will have served its purpose. -- Colas Nahaboo, colas@sa.inria.fr, Bull Research, Koala Project, GWM X11 WM Phone:(33) 93.65.77.70(.66 Fax), INRIA, B.P.109 - 06561 Valbonne Cedex, FRANCE.
cg@ami-cg.UUCP (Chris Gray) (04/04/91)
In article <10672@mirsa.inria.fr> colas@lemur.inria.fr (Colas Nahaboo) writes:
[All sorts of complaints about Wizardry: Bane of the Cosmic Forge - mostly
about the user interface. He specifically wants people to not buy it.]
Well, its been quite a while since I played Wizardry on a friend's Apple-II,
so I don't remember what the interface was like. The user interface in
W:BCF does have its problems. We use the keyboard mode exclusively, and
still occasionally have trouble. Long fights that we are doomed to lose are
indeed a problem. Some things I would like to see changed:
- option to disable spell-throwing animation
- option to disable monster-order-change animation
- option during combat to commit suicide
Spending nearly 30 minutes in a fight we know we are going to restore after
is a real pain (I think it was 32 Nightgaunts).
However! We rate this game ABOVE all other computer role playing games we
have played. This includes BT, DM-1, FTA, and a few others we gave up on
so quickly that I don't remember their names. The main reason for this
rating is the gameplay. It has lots of variety, lots of humour, and tries
quite hard to make it impossible to get stuck. I love some of the graphics
and even some of the sounds (the pixie laugh is cute the first couple of
times).
I strongly recommend the game to anyone who gets frustrated with the normal
role-playing games which are aimed too rigidly and AD&D players.
Another big plus for me is that it is VERY nice to have my UUCP news and
mail feed still active while playing the game off of my hard disk. I can't
do that with any of the others, and so would tend not to play them as much.
(In fact, the article I'm following up to probably came in last night while
we were playing.)
--
Chris Gray alberta!ami-cg!cg or cg%ami-cg@scapa.cs.UAlberta.CAcosc12t2@jetson.uh.edu (Chris Viles) (04/04/91)
In article <10672@mirsa.inria.fr>, colas@lemur.inria.fr (Colas Nahaboo) writes: >- the gameplay has not improved in ten years. You still do not see monsters in > advance, the graphics are essentially non-informative, and conveys little > more information than the appleII line drawings. Positive points: you now see > stairs from a distance... and you can save the game nearly anywhere (but not > during a battle) Not seeing the monsters has always been part of Wizardry. And what do you mean the graphics are essentially non-informative? This doesn't tell me anything. And I don't know of any games of this flavor (Ultima, the AD&D games, etc.) that let you save the game during a battle...this helps prevent cheating. >- it is awfully mono-tasking: you can just sit there and do nothing till the > "cute" monophonic sound-effect or animation ends. I actually had time to make >me a coffee while 3 rats were dancing in front of me, disabling all my > actions!!! At least on the apple II there were no such pauses in the game. > It pauses for ages while telling "cute" messages, even with game speed to the > max (delay=0). If you don't want to read the messages or see all the graphics, hit RETURN a few times...I don't know why, but there are useless pauses everywhere in this game. >- It takes FIVE disks!!! - for storing non-compressed bitmaps, for more > user-locking jerky anims... Without these stupid anims, which are the main > cause for my gripes, WIz6 could well have been fitted one one disk. > On the apple II it fitted on one 130K disk!!! At least disk-access is fast > and OS-friendly, so that you can HD install, and use disk caches for floppy > users. I don't remember any of the Wizardry games on my Apple //e being as big as this one...At least this one you can't solve, start to finish, in 10 minutes (an old bug in the Apple version of Wizardry). >- the mouse interface is a total joke. For instance: > - to choose a characters, it shows you all of them with their names in one > window (there were alreadyu on the screen), then underneath it repeats the >names only in a small window - You can ONLY click there!!! > - menus have their items moving (disabled items are deleted, moving up the > others), so that you cannot click fast, you must examine the menu each >time! > + tons and tons of utter stupidity... Use the keyboard, then. > - the keyboard interface is a mess, what will be done when typing return is > far from obvious. On the Apple II I never had a problem. What do you mean? Everything looked pretty intuitive to me. >- I could go on an on... Suffice to say that with the same user interface than > Wiz1 on the apple II, the game would have been a LOT better. Everything they > have added in 10 (TEN) years is bad design! Perhaps the plot is interesting, > but it would have been better with a text-only interface... The design isn't bad, just your criticism. The world doesn't settle for text-only interfaces on most games anymore. >> Fortunately wizardry is not stupid enough to trap you into situations >> in which you can't go back > > I got stuck in one the first time I played it. Then you should have asked for help, or tried harder. I've gotten out of every 'impossible' situation so far (with a little help from my friends :). >Why I posted this message: >- I work in computer-human interface. Such things are appealing to me. >- I totally loved Wizardry I on the apple II. I don't want other uninformed > Wiz-lovers (like me) to give their money to these thiefs (I didn't). >- It is a shame that these people could make any money out of it when companies > with user respect and decent beta-test such as cinemaware go broke. >- That this software could have brought a single buck to its authors is an > insult to FTL (DM and CSB authors) and others... More like you wanted to rant and rave about something you have no control over. > Now you can go on and flame me, I don't care -- If by this message I could > prevent at least one people to buy this game, then it will have served its > purpose. I hope not...this game was definitely worth the money. I didn't buy it for glitzy graphics or killer-cool sound effects...I bought it for it's game play. It's kept me very busy and very intertained for a while now. >-- >Colas Nahaboo, colas@sa.inria.fr, Bull Research, Koala Project, GWM X11 WM >Phone:(33) 93.65.77.70(.66 Fax), INRIA, B.P.109 - 06561 Valbonne Cedex, FRANCE. ^^^^^^ Well, that explains it! +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ "Duct tape is like the force...it has a light side and a dark side, and it binds the universe together!"
dac@prolix.pub.uu.oz.au (Andrew Clayton) (04/04/91)
In article <10672@mirsa.inria.fr>, Colas Nahaboo writes: > ever saw. I spent nights on Wizardy I and II on my apple II 10 years ago, but I > just tried Wizardry 6 on my amiga, and was severely disapointed. > > PLEASE PEOPLE DON'T BUY IT -- Sir-Tech should be sued by consumer organizations > for releasing such a user-despising product! [rest of article deleted] Sigh. I too was a fond Wizardry fanatic on ye olde Apple ][+. Solved 1, 2 and 3, but bombed out severely in #4 - that was one tough game. Never saw #5, though I heard rumours that it was ridiculously easy on the IBM platforms. I remember pestering SirTech during the last half of 1986 (international phone calls are still pretty expensive y'know!), asking them to produce Wizardry on the Amiga - I had seen it on the Mac, and that was a damned fine conversion too. If they produced Wizardry for the Amiga in the same way they did on the Mac, they would have a best seller. Reading your article made me fairly depressed. I had planned on buying Wizardry, but if it's only going to be a -slow and klutzy- rendition, then why bother? Thankyou for your article. Dac -- [My outgoing email doesn't seem to work ...]
uzun@pnet01.cts.com (Roger Uzun) (04/06/91)
[]
I agree about much of the user interface criticism, but I finished BANE
and the basic game rules, story and depth are all excellent.
It is near or at the top of all fantasy role playing games I have
played, better than Bards Tale, Might & Magic II, even Dungeon Master
and Chaos Strikes back in many ways.
True the graphics and sounds are pretty lame, and the user interface is
awkward, but the basic gameplay and gaming rules are superb.
-Roger
UUCP: {hplabs!hp-sdd ucsd nosc}!crash!pnet01!uzun
ARPA: crash!pnet01!uzun@nosc.mil
INET: uzun@pnet01.cts.comnad@tegra.COM (Nancy Durgin) (04/06/91)
In article <8410@crash.cts.com> uzun@pnet01.cts.com (Roger Uzun) writes: > >[] >I agree about much of the user interface criticism, but I finished BANE >and the basic game rules, story and depth are all excellent. >It is near or at the top of all fantasy role playing games I have >played, better than Bards Tale, Might & Magic II, even Dungeon Master >and Chaos Strikes back in many ways. >True the graphics and sounds are pretty lame, and the user interface is >awkward, but the basic gameplay and gaming rules are superb. >-Roger > I agree with Roger... I think the playability (in terms of plot, rules, etc) of Bane far outweighs any user interface issues. And I consider the quality of sound and graphics to be pretty much a non-issue (I found them less embarrassing than the graphics in CURSE OF THE AZURE BONDS, anyway...). As for the user interface, I found the keyboard interface to be quite usable. Perhaps the person who flamed the interface was trying to use the keyboard without setting the configuration to 'keyboard' instead of 'mouse'? If you try that, it is indeed quite bizarre.... I suppose one should consider that I played it on a 3000, installed on the hard disk. It could be that I was spared some annoyances with disk access and general speed of animations that others are complaining about? Certainly swapping 5 floppies would have to get tedious. Anyway, at least if you have a hard disk and are playing on an accelerated system, I would highly recommend this game.... Nancy -- ============================================================================== Nancy Durgin | (Usual disclaimers | Tegra-Varityper, Inc. uunet!tegra!nad | apply...) | Billerica, Massachusetts ==============================================================================
colas@lemur.inria.fr (Colas Nahaboo) (04/08/91)
In article <2238@joker.tegra.COM>, nad@tegra.COM (Nancy Durgin) writes: > Anyway, at least if you have a hard disk and are playing on an > accelerated system, I would highly recommend this game.... ^^^^^^^^^^^ If the blocking animations get quicker, then perhaps. The hard disk issue is less important, swapping floppies is not too frequent. > And I consider > the quality of sound and graphics to be pretty much a non-issue In my post I didn't attack them, only that they were blocking. They could show me the beautifulest pictures they could, if it must interrupt the game play, that's annoying. Definitiveley: try before buying. -- Colas Nahaboo, colas@sa.inria.fr, Bull Research, Koala Project, GWM X11 WM Phone:(33) 93.65.77.70(.66 Fax), INRIA, B.P.109 - 06561 Valbonne Cedex, FRANCE.