val@netw23.uucp (Oberon Kenobi) (04/02/91)
Why is it that the European programmers CAN'T FOLLOW THE RULE?! Not only
did the Psygnosis "Lemmings" demo install copy-protection on the disk (It did
not copy with diskcopy. What do you think disk-based copy-protection is?), but
the European programmers ASSUME A PAL AMIGA. Commodore specifically tells you
to how to check for NTSC or PAL. I know that some American* games assume NTSC,
but having a blank section of the screen is preferable to not seeing the bottom
of the screen where important information is usually displayed.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
* Anyone flaming me on my use of American to mean the United States of America
had better follow up in some advocacy group. I can make a very good arguement
for this being valid.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
P.S.: There are other locations besides America where NTSC is used. Japan for
instance.
================================================================================
| "vi? Because I don't have a real editor." - U*x user. | val@csulx.weber.edu |
================================================================================mascot@bnr.ca (Scott Mason) (04/03/91)
In article <164@netw23.uucp> val@netw23.uucp (Oberon Kenobi) writes: > >P.S.: There are other locations besides America where NTSC is used. Japan for > instance. > I thought that Japan is also PAL. Can someone else comment? --
doubt@growler.rice.edu (Douglas Benjamin Triggs) (04/03/91)
Um, the copy of lemmings I bought had written on it (in rather noticable letters): "North American Version" and "NTSC", or words to that effect. Worked fine on my 3000 under NTSC... doubt (Proud Lemmings Owner, Player, Connoisseur, etc., et al, ad nauseum) (...And I DO play it...I've solved every level up to Mayhem level 26...) +------------------------+--------------------------+-------------------------+ | // Douglas Triggs | COMPUTER IS HUNGRY. | doubt@owlnet.rice.edu | | \X/ GM # 8400000E | PLEASE FEED. | Rice University | +------------------------+--------------------------+-------------------------+ Disclaimer: All opinions of Rice University are their own. (^:
sschaem@starnet.uucp (Stephan Schaem) (04/03/91)
Textcraft Was published by CBM if I recall and is done by american programers... SECAM is better, ever went in europe? ALL french TV for 15 years now have RGB input for VCR... Why can the US make up its mind on HDTV, lowering the standart AGAIN to make cheap product AGAIN! And if there care to check NTSC PAL they would do a simple value check in exec or use cia timer with the VBeam.I know some amiga powered at 50 and display is 60... And if you want to argue plug a amiga on a 10 year old trinitron in the US and do the same in europe...
sschaem@starnet.uucp (Stephan Schaem) (04/03/91)
Sory for the previous post! I thought considering NTSC as standart.... Hope now the previous post make sens, and I'm sory for it. Stephan.
pwb@newt.phys.unsw.OZ.AU (Paul W. Brooks) (04/03/91)
In article <4267@bnr-rsc.UUCP>, mascot@bnr.ca (Scott Mason) writes: >In article <164@netw23.uucp> val@netw23.uucp (Oberon Kenobi) writes: >> >>P.S.:There are other locations besides America where NTSC is used. Japan for >> instance. > >I thought that Japan is also PAL. Can someone else comment? > Can't comment on Japan, but Australia is PAL. Since PAL is a superior system to NTSC, maybe the Americans should consider changing over to a global standard than their regional idiosyncracy :-) :-) :-) !! (oops - thermal underwear ON) Paul Brooks |Internet: pwb@newt.phys.unsw.edu.au Uni. of N.S.W. |If you have trouble sleeping, try lying on the end of Kensington NSW 2033| your bed. With a little luck you'll drop off. AUSTRALIA | - Mark Twain.
sl242003@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Jon Paul Baker) (04/03/91)
I would rather see the US go PAL. NTSC is short for never the same color (twice). It was adopted by the US so black and white TVs could receive color broadcasts and still be able to display them. It works, but most of the people I know (electrical engineer people I mean) prefer PAL over NTSC. The colors are better and its not as much of a pain as NTSC. (In terms of computers I would bet the colors are as good on both systems because its not being broadcast.) Personally, I wish C= would not have made it possible to hook an Amiga to a TV, and that they had just done everything PAL. I don't know what effect this would have had on Genlocks. As an aside, I have been able to run many PD PAL only (or so said the docs) games without too much trouble when I am running an overscaned workbench.
umstobb1@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Colin Stobbe) (04/04/91)
In article <4267@bnr-rsc.UUCP> mascot@bnr.ca (Scott Mason) writes: >In article <164@netw23.uucp> val@netw23.uucp (Oberon Kenobi) writes: >> >>P.S.: There are other locations besides America where NTSC is used. Japan for >> instance. >> > >I thought that Japan is also PAL. Can someone else comment? > >-- Hello, Japan uses NTSC. I know, I've been there. Hong Kong uses PAL, maybe that's what you were thinking of.
dw3w+@andrew.cmu.edu (Database Work) (04/04/91)
Why don't Americans switch to PAL? I think it much better. Oh, thats right, we're americans and stick to our own inferior standreds (of measure, etc). Ryan Neman
schweige@aldebaran.cs.nps.navy.mil (Jeffrey M. Schweiger) (04/04/91)
In article <kbybwZ_00WB50C3FV6@andrew.cmu.edu> dw3w+@andrew.cmu.edu (Database Work) writes: >Why don't Americans switch to PAL? I think it much better. Oh, thats right, >we're americans and stick to our own inferior standreds (of measure, etc). > >Ryan Neman The question isn't why shouldn't people switch to someone elses standard, it's why shouldn't people consider that other people use other standards when writing software. Which one is 'better' (assuming that question can even be answered - how do you define 'much better' in this case), isn't the question - PAL is used by a lot of people, and NTSC is used by a lot of people. -- ******************************************************************************* Jeff Schweiger Standard Disclaimer CompuServe: 74236,1645 Internet (Milnet): schweige@taurus.cs.nps.navy.mil *******************************************************************************
rogue@cellar.UUCP (Rogue Winter) (04/04/91)
pwb@newt.phys.unsw.OZ.AU (Paul W. Brooks) writes: > In article <4267@bnr-rsc.UUCP>, mascot@bnr.ca (Scott Mason) writes: > >In article <164@netw23.uucp> val@netw23.uucp (Oberon Kenobi) writes: > >> > >>P.S.:There are other locations besides America where NTSC is used. Japan f > >> instance. > > > >I thought that Japan is also PAL. Can someone else comment? > > > Can't comment on Japan, but Australia is PAL. Since PAL is a superior > system to NTSC, maybe the Americans should consider changing over to a > global standard than their regional idiosyncracy :-) :-) :-) !! > (oops - thermal underwear ON) > > > Paul Brooks |Internet: pwb@newt.phys.unsw.edu.au The Japanese television system runs on NTSC. This is part of what accounts for the prevalence of Japanese animation fans in the US as opposed to animation from other countries. American format VCRs can be run directly in Japan without having to translate PAL signals to NTSC.
jbickers@templar.actrix.gen.nz (John Bickers) (04/05/91)
Quoted from <164@netw23.uucp> by val@netw23.uucp (Oberon Kenobi): > Why is it that the European programmers CAN'T FOLLOW THE RULE?! Not only It's probably "don't", not "can't". From postings in .programmer, it appears they make estimations on market penetration over time, and decide that NTSC isn't worth it (the same way they decide being HD installable isn't worth it). It'd be nice if they made it clear the things don't run on particular kinds of machines, though. Some must do. > | "vi? Because I don't have a real editor." - U*x user. | val@csulx.weber.edu | -- *** John Bickers, TAP, NZAmigaUG. jbickers@templar.actrix.gen.nz *** *** "Patterns multiplying, re-direct our view" - Devo. ***
raible@cbmvax.commodore.com (Bob Raible - LSI Design) (04/05/91)
In article <1318@usage.csd.unsw.oz.au> pwb@newt.phys.unsw.OZ.AU (Paul W. Brooks) writes: >In article <4267@bnr-rsc.UUCP>, mascot@bnr.ca (Scott Mason) writes: >>In article <164@netw23.uucp> val@netw23.uucp (Oberon Kenobi) writes: >>> >>>P.S.:There are other locations besides America where NTSC is used. Japan for >>> instance. >> >>I thought that Japan is also PAL. Can someone else comment? >> >Can't comment on Japan, but Australia is PAL. Since PAL is a superior >system to NTSC, maybe the Americans should consider changing over to a >global standard than their regional idiosyncracy :-) :-) :-) !! >(oops - thermal underwear ON) > > >Paul Brooks |Internet: pwb@newt.phys.unsw.edu.au >Uni. of N.S.W. |If you have trouble sleeping, try lying on the end of >Kensington NSW 2033| your bed. With a little luck you'll drop off. >AUSTRALIA | - Mark Twain. WHAT GLOBAL STANDARD??????? Look around,besides SECAM you'll find several incompatible flavors of both PAL and NTSC. This state of affairs will continue on into HDTV. AT least everybody has settled on a common production standard.
raible@cbmvax.commodore.com (Bob Raible - LSI Design) (04/05/91)
In article <kbybwZ_00WB50C3FV6@andrew.cmu.edu> dw3w+@andrew.cmu.edu (Database Work) writes: >Why don't Americans switch to PAL? I think it much better. Oh, thats right, >we're americans and stick to our own inferior standreds (of measure, etc). > >Ryan Neman And what do you suggest we do with several hundred million suddenly useless TV's ??? SHEEESH!
pilgrim@daimi.aau.dk (Jakob G}rdsted) (04/05/91)
This posting about PAL/NTSC indulges me to ask the following
question :
As a NTSC screen is lower than a PAL screen(pixelwise),
is it then also wider (physically) than a PAL tvset(Which
would be taller). That is, is the cm-height/cmwidth ratio
of the american TVscreen different from the European?
with the fear of asking a silly question(?),
--
From the notorious
Jakob Gaardsted, Computer Science Department
Bed og arbejd ! University of Aarhus, Jylland (!)
(Pray and work!) AMIGA! WAY TO GO! | I'd rather play Moria.sparks@disk.uucp (John Sparks) (04/06/91)
dw3w+@andrew.cmu.edu (Database Work) writes: >Why don't Americans switch to PAL? I think it much better. Oh, thats right, >we're americans and stick to our own inferior standreds (of measure, etc). But PAL has that really s l o w scan rate of 50Hz. A real flicker problem. What we need is a hybrid. a 60Hz PAL mode. -- John Sparks |"Help Fight Continental Drift!"| (502)957-4200 2400 BPS D.I.S.K. Management| Email: sparks@disk.UUCP | 6 lines, public access unix | uunet!coplex!disk!sparks | *Online Games*Usenet*Email*Chatting*Downloads*Supporting all computers*
cabp10@vaxa.strath.ac.uk (Dan Dare) (04/09/91)
In article <1991Apr05.194113.4449@disk.uucp>, sparks@disk.uucp (John Sparks) writes: > dw3w+@andrew.cmu.edu (Database Work) writes: > >>Why don't Americans switch to PAL? I think it much better. Oh, thats right, >>we're americans and stick to our own inferior standreds (of measure, etc). > > But PAL has that really s l o w scan rate of 50Hz. A real flicker problem. > What we need is a hybrid. a 60Hz PAL mode. what flicker problem I anit ever seen it mayby I just don't watch enough tv -- / / The Light of the Dan Dare \\ New Dawn Burns Bright / Even at night. ================================================================================ AKA Sean Stratton | "I came here to chew | Live life |Amiga /// Cabp10@uk.ac.strath.vaxa| bubblegum and kick ass. and | Taste Death | \\\/// on JANET | i'm all out of bubblegum." | | \XX/ ================================================================================ All misspelling is my brains fault not mine
manjit@digigw.digital.co.jp (Manjit Bedi) (04/11/91)
In article <1318@usage.csd.unsw.oz.au>, pwb@newt.phys.unsw.OZ.AU (Paul W. Brooks) writes: > In article <4267@bnr-rsc.UUCP>, mascot@bnr.ca (Scott Mason) writes: > >In article <164@netw23.uucp> val@netw23.uucp (Oberon Kenobi) writes: > >>P.S.:There are other locations besides America where NTSC is used. Japan for > >> instance. > >I thought that Japan is also PAL. Can someone else comment? > Can't comment on Japan, but Australia is PAL. Since PAL is a superior > Paul Brooks |Internet: pwb@newt.phys.unsw.edu.au I am currently living in Japan with my Amiga 3000. Japan is most definitely NTSC. But sometimes differences occur in hardware like VCR's. A Canadain VCR cannot record off of Japanese broadcast but I digress. The Amiga is not much of a player in Japan. They exist around here but heck if I know where.
algoa@eecs.cs.pdx.edu (Gregory Bowers) (04/12/91)
cabp10@vaxa.strath.ac.uk (Dan Dare) writes: >In article <1991Apr05.194113.4449@disk.uucp>, sparks@disk.uucp (John Sparks) writes: >> But PAL has that really s l o w scan rate of 50Hz. A real flicker problem. >> What we need is a hybrid. a 60Hz PAL mode. >what flicker problem I anit ever seen it >mayby I just don't watch enough tv I haven't seen a real PAL screen for about 4 years, but I don't remember any more flicker than NTSC. Anyone seeing PAL on an NTSC Amiga isn't seeing real PAL. I don't know if it makes any difference, but the PAL scan rate is 50Hz, but the NTSC monitor should be 60Hz. Anyway, remember, most PAL countries have a 50Hz power supply, as opposed to 60Hz in North America, so maybe a 60Hz PAL in Europe would be impractical. If anyone REALLY knows for sure, please follow on. Amiga is die beste! 'n IBM is 'n rekenaar? Die Mac is net 'n vrot appel! Watch this space for Blazer playoff updates! algoa@eecs.cs.pdx.edu Portland TrailBlazers now 59-18 and KICKING ASS!
johnhlee@CS.Cornell.EDU (John H. Lee) (04/13/91)
In article <2341@pdxgate.UUCP> algoa@eecs.cs.pdx.edu (Gregory Bowers) writes: >cabp10@vaxa.strath.ac.uk (Dan Dare) writes: >I haven't seen a real PAL screen for about 4 years, but I don't remember >any more flicker than NTSC. Anyone seeing PAL on an NTSC Amiga isn't >seeing real PAL. I don't know if it makes any difference, but the PAL >scan rate is 50Hz, but the NTSC monitor should be 60Hz. Anyway, remember, >most PAL countries have a 50Hz power supply, as opposed to 60Hz in North >America, so maybe a 60Hz PAL in Europe would be impractical. > >If anyone REALLY knows for sure, please follow on. PAL's 50Hz flicker is very real to people who are accustomed to 60Hz refresh. When I was in Europe last summer, the flicker was *very* noticeable. However, I suspect that as time passes I would have gotten used to it and eventually would not noticed it at all. The reason for the differing scan rates *is* tied to the power supply frequency, but not because it's impossible to operate a 60Hz monitor on 50Hz power and vice-versa. The PAL and NTSC video standards were designed to minimize interference between the power supply and video refresh. If the two are not perfectly at the same frequency, a visible (and very annoying) "hum bar" travels up or down the screen at the frequency that is the difference between the power supply and video refresh rates. At the time the standards were developed, it was nearly impossible and very expensive to adequately filter out this interference. Even today, it's hard to design a non-video-rate monitor with a ripple-less power supply and sufficient shielding to prevent this "hum bar". You can still faintly see this effect on many computer monitors as a slight "wavering" that moves up or down the screen slowly. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The DiskDoctor threatens the crew! Next time on AmigaDos: The Next Generation. John Lee Internet: johnhlee@cs.cornell.edu The above opinions of those of the user, and not of this machine.
gfm@mole.gnu.ai.mit.edu (George) (04/13/91)
As for the NTSC/PAL thing... As I understand it the reason that PAL standard is used in Europe is that their electricty system runs at 50 Cycles per second, where as ours is 60..thus causing the differences between the scan modes on video equipment (And other stuff)
val@netw23.uucp (Oberon Kenobi) (04/16/91)
In article <1318@usage.csd.unsw.oz.au>, pwb@newt.phys.unsw.OZ.AU (Paul W. Brooks) writes: > In article <4267@bnr-rsc.UUCP>, mascot@bnr.ca (Scott Mason) writes: >>In article <164@netw23.uucp> val@netw23.uucp (Oberon Kenobi) writes: >>> >>>P.S.:There are other locations besides America where NTSC is used. Japan for >>> instance. >> >>I thought that Japan is also PAL. Can someone else comment? >> > Can't comment on Japan, but Australia is PAL. Since PAL is a superior > system to NTSC, maybe the Americans should consider changing over to a > global standard than their regional idiosyncracy :-) :-) :-) !! > (oops - thermal underwear ON) Japan is NTSC (3 by 4 ratio). Japan is also converting to a 9 by 16 (ratio) analog television "standard". However, this "standard" is a contestant in the new HDTV (9 by 16 ratio) standard (proposals now being accepted), but is unlikely to win out against any of it's DIGITAL competitors. (Did we see DIGITAL? Why, wouldn't that make it terribly easy to DIGITIZE? Wouldn't it make television a PERFECT media?) HDTV will make Europeans obsolete; especially the French. I agree that NTSC is a horrendous kludge that allow you to watch todays broadcasts on a 1955 television. It's full of creeping featurisms like color (colour for you Brit's and Aussies who think that you know how to spell English), double vertical resolution (causing interlace), and even stereo. (I know, how many people still have a 1955 television or even a B&W television?) I'm glad that HDTV is coming, but don't you think that the country which INVENTED the technology has a certain inherant right (?) to develop the standards by which others are judged? With tongue firmly in cheek, I give you (the previous poster) your own medicine. I also include some very pertinent FACTS. I'll let you (the network community) decide which are which. P.S.: Thermal underwear is flammable at HIGH temperatures. Wouldn't you prefer asbestos? No, that would give you cancer. -- ================================================================================ | "vi? Because I don't have a real editor." -- U*x user | val@csulx.weber.edu | ================================================================================
soh@shiva.trl.oz (kam hung soh) (04/19/91)
val@netw23.uucp (Oberon Kenobi) writes: > [ ... ] >(colour for you Brit's and Aussies who think that you know how to spell >English) Can't let a broadside like that past us ex-slaves of the Empire! Of course we know how to write in English; it's just these damned ex-British subjects in America who believe chucking away their etymological past will help them spell better. <<<-: BIG GRIN HERE! :->>> Redirect all follow-ups to alt.flame.burn.burn.burn! ---------- Soh, Kam Hung email: h.soh@trl.oz.au tel: +61 03 541 6403 Telecom Research Laboratories, P.O. Box 249, Clayton, Victoria 3168, Australia