[alt.security] nosy finger daemons

rsm@math.arizona.edu (Robert S. Maier) (06/22/91)

Several machines in the nrl.navy.mil domain have an interesting
undocumented feature: if you finger them, they finger you right back! 
Examples are tiger.nrl.navy.mil and ccf.nrl.navy.mil.  Try it
yourself; if your finger daemon logs incoming requests you'll pick
it up at once.

If you finger either, it's always tiger.nrl.navy.mil that fingers you.
So the modifications to their finger daemons must be nontrivial.

Apparently the folks at nrl.navy.mil (Navy Research Laboratory) didn't
want to erect a full-fledged firewall, so they compromised on this.
It doesn't seem a very effective protection against the outside world
though.  In fact it's rather amusing.  Has anyone ever seen anything
else like this?

I haven't checked to see whether their other daemons (e.g. rusersd)
are nosy too, but I wouldn't be surprised.  Apparently `Caller ID' has
come to the Internet.

-- 
Robert S. Maier   | Internet: rsm@math.arizona.edu, rsm@cs.arizona.edu
Dept. of Math.    | UUCP: uunet!arizona!amethyst!rsm
Univ. of Arizona  | Bitnet: maier@arizrvax
Tucson, AZ  85721 | FAX: +1 602 621 8322
U.S.A.            | Voice(POTS): +1 602 621 6893  /  +1 602 621 2617

alo@hiisi.hut.fi (Antti Louko) (06/22/91)

In article <RSM.91Jun21182838@coral.math.arizona.edu> rsm@math.arizona.edu (Robert S. Maier) writes:
>Several machines in the nrl.navy.mil domain have an interesting
>undocumented feature: if you finger them, they finger you right back! 
>Examples are tiger.nrl.navy.mil and ccf.nrl.navy.mil.  Try it
>yourself; if your finger daemon logs incoming requests you'll pick
>it up at once.

>though.  In fact it's rather amusing.  Has anyone ever seen anything
>else like this?

I haven't seen it before, but I have thought about it. I decided not
to implement it. Why? Think about it. What if my fingerd and theirs
both implement this "feature"? How long they will keep fingering each
other?

Or if I find another internet site who implements this, say
rixrax.foo.com and give command

finger @tiger.nrl.navy.mil@rixrax.foo.com

and let them finger each other forever.

welch@soda.berkeley.edu (Sean N. Welch) (06/23/91)

In article <RSM.91Jun21182838@coral.math.arizona.edu> rsm@math.arizona.edu (Robert S. Maier) writes:
>Several machines in the nrl.navy.mil domain have an interesting
>undocumented feature: if you finger them, they finger you right back! 
>Examples are tiger.nrl.navy.mil and ccf.nrl.navy.mil.  Try it
>yourself; if your finger daemon logs incoming requests you'll pick
>it up at once.

Interesting, but only to a point.  Many sites let you bounce fingers such
that you can chain them from your site to somewhere that your machine
doesn't know about by going through a machine that does know where you
want to finger.  Some companies operate with only a single gateway on
the internet, so you can't finger at foo.big.com, but you can finger 
@foo@big.com since the foo gets evaluated at big.com which knows about
foo and can get to it.  The effect this has on finger-you-back finger
daemons is that they look for you at the most recent link in the chain.

What if you do something really silly like:

	finger @ccf.nrl.navy.mil@tiger.nrl.navy.mil

(Yes, I tried it.  Unfortunately you can't chain forever on these two
machines since if you try and finger @somehere@ccf.nrl.navy.mil, you 
get finger@ccf3.nrl.navy.mil: argument list not permitted)

Sean Welch
welch@Berkeley.EDU

srp@babar.mmwb.ucsf.edu (Scott R. Presnell%Cohen) (06/23/91)

rsm@math.arizona.edu (Robert S. Maier) writes:

>Apparently `Caller ID' has come to the Internet.

Ever since getpeername() and gethostbyaddr()!

(Remember, Caller ID doesn't get you exactly *who* is on the other end,
just the "address" of the device, be it phone or computer.)

	- Scott
--
Scott Presnell				        +1 (415) 476-9890
Pharm. Chem., S-926				Internet: srp@cgl.ucsf.edu
University of California			UUCP: ...ucbvax!ucsfcgl!srp
San Francisco, CA. 94143-0446			Bitnet: srp@ucsfcgl.bitnet

cgw@vaxb.acs.unt.edu (06/23/91)

In article <RSM.91Jun21182838@coral.math.arizona.edu>, rsm@math.arizona.edu (Robert S. Maier) writes:
[discussion of nrl.navy.mil's 'feature' of fingering the fingerer (ie: 'you')
when you finger them]
> Apparently the folks at nrl.navy.mil (Navy Research Laboratory) didn't
> want to erect a full-fledged firewall, so they compromised on this.
> It doesn't seem a very effective protection against the outside world
> though.  In fact it's rather amusing.  Has anyone ever seen anything
> else like this?

yes! well, sortof.. read on:

> I haven't checked to see whether their other daemons (e.g. rusersd)
> are nosy too, but I wouldn't be surprised.  Apparently `Caller ID' has
> come to the Internet.

and has been for at least a while.. in march or so of 91, on comp.unix.*,
there was talk of a program that would wake up and do something when
your account is fingered. generally, what happens is this: you make
your .plan a FIFO queue that runs a program you specify whenever it
becomes active. (at least, that's my understanding. i could be wrong.)
anyway, i've written a companion to the program that does this (which 
is the purpose of the first program (to run another program when your
.plan is opened). you can see this program in action if you finger
cgw@ponder.csci.unt.edu. i don't login there much anymore, so i can't 
vouch for the availableness of this, but it should work. because of 
final exams in may, i didn't get a chance to make it use DNS to translate 
the IP addr to a hostname, but it's still an interesting thing. 
currently, the algorithm is this: do a ps and grep for 'finger'. then 
i can get the username and special-case that user. if it doesn't 
find anyone running finger, do a netstat and see what host has an 
open connection to port 79. it's admittedly in the stages of an 
advanced hack, and not exetremely useful in it's current state, but
ideas i have for it are: a personalized message sender. say you're 
out of the office/room for a few minutes, and want to let someone
know you're out. just add a line to a file, and the program will
send it to users specified (somewhere). there are many more things
you can do with this, but i'll refrain from going into them here.

i got the program from someone off the net. since i've forgotten
who it was, but still have the original mail, i'll entertain 
requests for it by email, if there's any interest. email _only_;
if you post to the net, i'll ignore it. 

oh, i almost forgot the reason i'm posting.. my program currently
logs usernames (if they're local) and host IPs if they're not. 
see? tcp/ip CallerId :)

-cgw-

>S. Maier   | Internet: rsm@math.arizona.edu, rsm@cs.arizona.edu
> Dept. of Math.    | UUCP: uunet!arizona!amethyst!rsm
> Univ. of Arizona  | Bitnet: maier@arizrvax
> Tucson, AZ  85721 | FAX: +1 602 621 8322
> U.S.A.            | Voice(POTS): +1 602 621 6893  /  +1 602 621 2617

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
christopher williams, `gilligan', `dude', cgw@vaxb.acs.unt.edu, +1 817 565 4161
lead programmer/operator, the university of north texas, home of the _VaxCave_!
`help stamp out and abolish redundancy!'           my other .sig is boring too.

karl.kleinpaste@osc.edu (06/24/91)

rsm@math.arizona.edu:
   Several machines in the nrl.navy.mil domain have an interesting
   undocumented feature: if you finger them, they finger you right back! 
   Examples are tiger.nrl.navy.mil and ccf.nrl.navy.mil.

Now let me get this straight: I take a copy of Tiger's fingerd and I
install it on foo.bar.bletch.edu.  Logged into Foo, I finger
joe@tiger.nrl.navy.mil.  Watching my syslog in another window, I
observe an incoming finger request from Tiger.  This induces my
fingerd (being a copy of Tiger's) to perform "finger
@tiger.nrl.navy.mil" after which I observe another finger request
coming back from Tiger, to which my fingerd responds with "finger..."

--karl

suitti@ima.isc.com (Stephen Uitti) (06/25/91)

In article <1991Jun22.160026.8876@nntp.hut.fi> alo@hiisi.hut.fi (Antti Louko) writes:
>In article <RSM.91Jun21182838@coral.math.arizona.edu> rsm@math.arizona.edu (Robert S. Maier) writes:
>>Several machines in the nrl.navy.mil domain have an interesting
>>undocumented feature: if you finger them, they finger you right back! 
>>Examples are tiger.nrl.navy.mil and ccf.nrl.navy.mil.  Try it
>>yourself; if your finger daemon logs incoming requests you'll pick
>>it up at once.
>
>>though.  In fact it's rather amusing.  Has anyone ever seen anything
>>else like this?
>
>I haven't seen it before, but I have thought about it. I decided not
>to implement it. Why? Think about it. What if my fingerd and theirs
>both implement this "feature"? How long they will keep fingering each
>other?
>
>Or if I find another internet site who implements this, say
>rixrax.foo.com and give command
>
>finger @tiger.nrl.navy.mil@rixrax.foo.com
>
>and let them finger each other forever.

If it were my fingerd, and I wanted it to keep a log of people
who had fingered my people, I'd only finger people I hadn't
fingered recently.  Recently means today, since last boot, or if
the info isn't still in my fixed maximum sized LRU table, or
whatever.

The "I'm on vacation" automatic reply mailers are a harder problem.

Stephen.
suitti@ima.isc.com
"We Americans want peace, and it is now evident that we must be
prepared to demand it.  For other peoples have wanted peace, and
the peace they received was the peace of death." - the Most Rev.
Francis J. Spellman, Archbishop of New York.  22 September, 1940

bygg@sunet.se (Johnny Eriksson) (06/25/91)

In article <1991Jun22.160026.8876@nntp.hut.fi> alo@hiisi.hut.fi (Antti Louko) writes:

# I haven't seen it before, but I have thought about it. I decided not
# to implement it. Why? Think about it. What if my fingerd and theirs
# both implement this "feature"? How long they will keep fingering each
# other?
# 
# Or if I find another internet site who implements this, say
# rixrax.foo.com and give command
# 
# finger @tiger.nrl.navy.mil@rixrax.foo.com
# 
# and let them finger each other forever.

Why not:

finger @tiger.nrl.navy.mil@tiger.nrl.navy.mil

???

--Johnny