dgiles@apple.com (Darren Giles) (12/18/90)
dennisg@felix.UUCP (Dennis Griesser) writes: >lance@motcsd.csd.mot.com (lance.norskog) writes: >>This brings up a subject dear to my heart: I'd like a robot fencing >>partner. Are there low-cost robots around which have the speed and >>flexibility to handle this? I've got the Power Glove already... >> >How about taking your Power Glove, clamping on some Eyephones (or a cheaper >equivalent), and firing up a Virtual Reality with a simulated partner to >practice with. If the simulation breaks down, at least it doesn't thrash >around with a foil! Great, with one major problem... how do you get the foils to interact? Ignoring the math involved in the simulation, this is a case where there HAS to be strong tactile feedback. Otherwise, you can't even parry! Which raises an interesting question (although it might fit better on a VR group): how could you give that kind of feedback? Ideas, anyone? +-------------------------------------+ "To be or not to be..." | Darren "No Nickname" Giles | (2b) || !(2b) | dgiles@Apple.com | TRUE +-------------------------------------+ Loses something in translation, eh?
hollombe@ttidca.TTI.COM (The Polymath) (12/19/90)
In article <11560@goofy.Apple.COM> dgiles@apple.com (Darren Giles) writes: }dennisg@felix.UUCP (Dennis Griesser) writes: }>lance@motcsd.csd.mot.com (lance.norskog) writes: }>>... I'd like a robot fencing }>>partner. ... }>>... I've got the Power Glove already... }>How about taking your Power Glove, clamping on some Eyephones ... }>... and firing up a Virtual Reality with a simulated partner to }>practice with. ... }... how do you get the foils to interact? }... there HAS }to be strong tactile feedback. Otherwise, you can't even parry! }... how could you give that kind of feedback? ... How about audio feedback with a solenoid in your foil's grip so you get an authentic sounding clash and a twitch in your hand to indicate contact? The forces involved in real-world fencing aren't all that great anyway. Even a bind & disarm only takes a few pounds. Maybe cables attached to your foil that pull tight to simulate contact? They could also provide a reference to the virtual fencer for your foil's actual position. Simulating broadsword, or even sabre, might be a little more difficult ... Whack! "Ouch!" "Keep that left hand behind you!" Maybe with mild electric shocks. (-: -- The Polymath (aka: Jerry Hollombe, M.A., CDP, aka: hollombe@ttidca.tti.com) Head Robot Wrangler at Citicorp(+)TTI Illegitimis non 3100 Ocean Park Blvd. (213) 450-9111, x2483 Carborundum Santa Monica, CA 90405 {csun | philabs | psivax}!ttidca!hollombe
dennisg@felix.UUCP (Dennis Griesser) (12/22/90)
lance@motcsd.csd.mot.com (lance.norskog) writes: >This brings up a subject dear to my heart: I'd like a robot fencing >partner. Are there low-cost robots around which have the speed and >flexibility to handle this? I've got the Power Glove already... I replied: >How about taking your Power Glove, clamping on some Eyephones (or a cheaper >equivalent), and firing up a Virtual Reality with a simulated partner to >practice with. If the simulation breaks down, at least it doesn't thrash >around with a foil! In article <11560@goofy.Apple.COM> dgiles@apple.com (Darren Giles) writes: >Great, with one major problem... how do you get the foils to interact? >Ignoring the math involved in the simulation, this is a case where there HAS >to be strong tactile feedback. Otherwise, you can't even parry! > >Which raises an interesting question (although it might fit better on a >VR group): how could you give that kind of feedback? Ideas, anyone? Agreed. Another poster mentioned synthesized sounds for the clash of steel. Certainly a requirement, but tactile feedback remains the problem. OK, so pick up an instrumented sword/foil/saber mockup. Make sure that it contains some weights attached to some type of fast effectors (solenoids?). Then when your sword is hit by your simulated opponant, the solenoid on the appropriate axis is energized, throwing the weight and pushing the sword in the opposite direction. Pretty silly idea, but it's a first cut. :-) OK, how about this: o For every degree of freedom measured by the PowerGlove, add an effector to give you feedback. o Limit the force that can be applied by the effectors so that if the simulation runs amuck, it can't hurt you. o You will have to add instrumentation at other parts along the human body so that you can gather additional information and assert feedback in different positions. Currently, other techniques are used to locate the position and orientation of the Glove. Hmmm. If you increased the power of the effectors and made the software a simple feedback loop, you would have a motorized exoskeleton.
jsivier@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Jonathon Sivier ) (12/25/90)
dgiles@apple.com (Darren Giles) writes: >dennisg@felix.UUCP (Dennis Griesser) writes: >Great, with one major problem... how do you get the foils to interact? >Ignoring the math involved in the simulation, this is a case where there HAS >to be strong tactile feedback. Otherwise, you can't even parry! >Which raises an interesting question (although it might fit better on a >VR group): how could you give that kind of feedback? Ideas, anyone? You could use a real foil and have huge electro-magnets controlled by the computer to stop the foil at the correct time. Unfortunately the massive electro-magnetic fields would probably have negative effects on the computer, the VR sensing and display equipement and the human user. Alternatively you could use a pseudo-foil without a blade, but with compressed air thrusters to provide the resistance of the opponents foil. The air could be fed though a tube snaked down the arm like the wires with an electric foil. Thus the compressed air supply and compressor could be elsewhere. You would probably want to use something like a Polhemus tracker with a transmitter at each end of the pommel. That line could be extended and thus the position of the blade would be known. Jonathan ------------------------------------------------------------------- | Jonathan Sivier | Ballo ergo sum. | | jsivier@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu | (I dance therefore I am.) | | Flight Simulation Lab | - des Cartwright | | Beckman Institute, Urbana IL | | -------------------------------------------------------------------