dms@fluke.UUCP (Dave Sherman) (06/12/84)
[hello] >> The Dade County ( Florida ) Metrorail system opened last week. >>The following information was gleaned from an article entitled "$1 Billion >>Rail System Opens in Dade County", from The New York Times, Sunday, May 27, >>1984, page 22: >> >> Dade County Metrorail System >> ---- ------ --------- ------ >> >> cost: $1,000,000,000 >> fare: $1.00 >> average ridership: 7,000 people/day >> times of operation: 6 a.m. - 7 p.m., Mon. - Fri. Hmm... $1,000,000,000 divided by 7000 $/day divided by 5 days/week divided by 52 weeks/year... assuming zero cost of maintainance and operation, it ought to be paid off in only 550 years. Are those numbers wrong ( I hope ) or is this yet another example of the foolishness of federal mass-transit subsidies? Yes, yes, I know, they had to raise the gas tax to fix up the roads. Ha! Where's Jim Hill when we need him? David ...{decvax!microsof,uw-beaver,allegra,lbl-csam,ssc-vax}!fluke!dms
friedman@uiucdcs.UUCP (06/13/84)
#R:inmet:-147400:uiucdcs:20600009:000:754 uiucdcs!friedman Jun 13 11:13:00 1984 > Hmm... $1,000,000,000 divided by 7000 $/day divided by 5 days/week > divided by 52 weeks/year... assuming zero cost of maintainance and > operation, it ought to be paid off in only 550 years. Are those numbers > wrong ( I hope ) or is this yet another example of the foolishness of > federal mass-transit subsidies? Yes, yes, I know, they had to raise > the gas tax to fix up the roads. Ha! That figure of 7000 riders per day must be merely a startup figure. It works out to less than 2,000,000 riders per year, which is less than the bus system here in little 'ol Champaign-Urbana, Illinois (a community of about 100,000 people). After a steady state is reached, this figure has to be grossly too low for a metropolitan area as large as Dade.
jpg@sdchema.UUCP (06/14/84)
I was recently in Florida and to my untrained eye the
elevated railway structure looks poorly made. In fact a few years ago
there was some crticism by an engineer who had worked on the
project that the structure was unsafe. One thing I don't understand
is why they had to make an elevated as opposed to surface system.
There is no street under the railway (as in New York or Chicago).
A surface system would seem to be much cheaper. It looks like
a mob connected construction company made a bundle on this one.
Also there was an accident in which one train rear-ended another.
The reason given for the accident (so help me, I'm not making this up!)
was that the motorman did not realise that you cannot stop a train in the
same distance that you can stop a car!essachs@ihuxl.UUCP (Ed Sachs) (06/15/84)
===================================== Re: remark that elevated railways in New York and Chicago are constructed over streets: While this is generally true in New York (with one or two exceptions, such as the Brighton Line of the old BMT in Brooklyn), construction of elevated lines over streets was the exception in Chicago outside the "Loop." Only one of Chicago's L (not el) lines, namely the Lake Street L, is constructed (mostly) above a street, the others were all built along private right-of-way through back alleys (and are thus often referred to as "Alley Ls"). Newer lines are in expressway median strips. Aside: the outer portion of the Lake St. L line ran at ground level until the 1960's, when it was moved to the elevated (earthen embankment) right-of-way of the Chicago and Northwestern Railroad, and thus only part of the Lake St. L runs above a street. -- Ed Sachs AT&T Bell Laboratories Naperville, IL ihuxl!essachs
jeh@ritcv.UUCP (Jim Heliotis) (06/16/84)
Maybe the routes are elevated because it's swampy.
burton@fortune.UUCP (06/19/84)
#R:inmet:7900003:fortune:8900014:000:1308
fortune!burton Jun 18 12:41:00 1984
I don't know about Chicago, but I **do** know a lot about the old BMT
and predecessor systems/lines of the New Yrok subway system.
The Brighton line (now the D, QB, et al) was originally a steam road, as
was the Sea Beach (N) and the West End (B, T). The Brooklyn & Queens
Transit, Brooklyhn & Manhattan Transit after the malbone Street wreck in
1918, was a product of mergers. Brooklyn had a well-developed system of
steam roads, for internal use and to take people from the then-separate
city of New York (pre-unification) to Coney Island. Originally the
Sea Beach line ran to the Brooklyn waterfront. As a child, I remember
seeing the old surface right-of-way of the West End line just below the
El.
Much of the impetus for upgrading the steam lines to Els came from the
Dual Contracts, signed by the Citty of New York with the IRT and BMT
co. about 1914, whereby the City would fund the construction/upgrading of
most of the lines that became the BMT and IRT.
For more information, contact the Electric Railroaders' Association,
which has/had a reprint of the Dual Contracts book for sale.
Philip Burton 101 Twin Dolphin Drive-MS 133
Fortune Systems Redwood City, CA 94065 (415) 595-8444 x 526
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{ihnp4 [ucbvax | decvax!decwrl]!amd70 harpo hpda }!fortune!burtonfriedman@uiucdcs.UUCP (06/19/84)
#R:inmet:-147400:uiucdcs:20600010:000:413 uiucdcs!friedman Jun 19 11:11:00 1984 It seems to me to be quite reasonable to elevate the lines just to keep them from conflict with street traffic. There is also the problem of safety (that 600 volt 3rd rail can kill), but there are other ways of protecting people, so I imagine the traffic-free operation was the main reason. The only other grade-separated method would be a subway, which I imagine wouldn't be too practical that near the ocean.