eirikur@ranger.enet.dec.com (Eirikur Hallgrimsson) (09/19/90)
Responding to a query about LAT driver availability, Byron Han of Apple writes: >The DEC LANWorks product includes the basic connectivity set (TTY, VT102, >ADSP, Serial, Apple Modem, Text, and XMODEM), VT320, LAT, TGA, CTerm, and >MacTCP Tool (for use with MacX). Byron goes on to cover the license price if you purchase from Apple: >Basic Connectivity Set license: $50/year >VT320 license: single use $50, redistribution $1000 one time fee >LAT license: single use $50, redistribution $2500 one time fee This prompts me to add: Depending upon how many of the pieces that you need, DEC LanWORKS might be very cost-effective even if you don't want to run the VMS-based file and print servers everywhere--for example, you can run Mac X over the included MacTCP, and you can use LAT to DEC's Ultrix systems. It's $295 (list) per Mac, and you get Mac X, MacTerminal V3.0, all the comm. tools Byron mentions, file and print servers for the VAX, plus DECnet for the Macintosh (including the DECnet Comm. Toolbox tool). You do have to buy a media and documentation for the VAX, though, because the product ships with only one Mac floppy. The rest of the files are shipped as a file server volume. Disclaimer: I work for the DEC LanWORKS group, aka DEC/Apple joint development. Hi, Byron! Eirikur Hallgrimsson eh@ranger.enet.dec.com
SKG102@psuvm.psu.edu (09/19/90)
The DEC LanWorks server portion also contains the DAL (CL/1) server and
AppleTalk for Vms. The price quoted in our last DECDirect catalog was $440.
Compare this to the Apple price for just these two pieces of $5000. The
question is simple; which would you but? LanWorks also requires you to
purchase LanWorks for VMS which has a price of $666. The DAL client for the
Mac sells for $695 from Apple and for $295 from DEC. The only question I have
here is that according to DEC their Mac client is only a paper license and that
the software is on the TK50 or Magtape depending on which one you order, since
the Mac reads none of these, how do you get the software? You have to already
have a way to transfer files to your Mac from the VAX to get the connectivity
tools that are supposed to do this. Silly, isn't it? :-)
Scott George
Sr. Research Technologist
Center for Instructional R&D
Penn State
SKG102@psuvm.psu.edujhg@Apple.COM (James Glanville) (09/20/90)
In article <90262.101538SKG102@psuvm.psu.edu> SKG102@psuvm.psu.edu writes: >The DEC LanWorks server portion also contains the DAL (CL/1) server and >AppleTalk for Vms. The price quoted in our last DECDirect catalog was $440. >Compare this to the Apple price for just these two pieces of $5000. The >question is simple; which would you but? LanWorks also requires you to >purchase LanWorks for VMS which has a price of $666. The DAL client for the >Mac sells for $695 from Apple and for $295 from DEC. LanWORKS is a good deal, especially as far as DAL is concerned. That's the whole point of the product. We (Apple and DEC) want to offer people great software products that let them make the most of DEC and Apple computers. Of course, the LanWORKS version of DAL only provides server support for Rdb. The APDA version of DAL Server for VAX/VMS provides support for Rdb, Ingres, Informix, Oracle, and Sybase. Plus, the documentation that come from APDA for the the Server and Client products are more in-depth than the DAL documentation included in LanWORKS. > The only question I have >here is that according to DEC their Mac client is only a paper license and >the software is on the TK50 or Magtape depending on which one you order, since >the Mac reads none of these, how do you get the software? You have to already >have a way to transfer files to your Mac from the VAX to get the connectivity >tools that are supposed to do this. Silly, isn't it? :-) All of the Macintosh software in LanWORKS (including the DAL client) lives on the Appleshare volume running under VAX/VMS. From your Mac, you use the Macintosh installer disk that comes with the LanWORKS product. This installer, among other things, will install the DAL client software, the Commtoolbox software, and the Appleshare client software. After you reboot your Mac, you can the access any of the files stored on the Appleshare volume on the Vax. (All of this assumes that you Mac is on an Appletalk network tied into the Appletalk for VMS 3.0 running on the Vax). I guess this connectivy stuff is pretty silly. Especially when it works! - James Glanville sometimes DAL Project Leader and CL/1 guru Apple Computer, Inc. jhg@apple.com Disclaimer nonesense: Apple and I both say things. They're often different.
lindahl@evax.arl.utexas.edu (Charlie Lindahl) (09/20/90)
Scott George writes: >The only question I have >here is that according to DEC their Mac client is only a paper license and that >the software is on the TK50 or Magtape depending on which one you order, since >the Mac reads none of these, how do you get the software? You have to already >have a way to transfer files to your Mac from the VAX to get the connectivity >tools that are supposed to do this. Silly, isn't it? :-) Does seem recursive, doesn't it? I asked the same question of DEC DIRECT and got a straight answer: you load the file server software on the VAX from the tape, then use the newly-created AppleShare File Server to copy the other stuff (MacX, MacTERMINAL, etc) to your Mac. Note: all MACS come with the AppleShare capability in their systems; you just have to have ETHERTALK or a LocalTalk interface to VMS (you MUST have one or the other already, or you wouldn't be buying LANWORKS). Anyway, we'll find out how well this works next week when we get our LanWorks in the door. -- Charlie S. Lindahl Automation and Robotics Research Institute University of Texas at Arlington Internet EMAIL: lindahl@evax.arl.utexas.edu
newbery@rata.vuw.ac.nz (Michael Newbery) (09/20/90)
I have another question about LanWORKS: If I buy the server side and one (or some small number) of Mac clients, what is to stop every mac on our AT network using the Vax as an AppleShare server? Is it legal for Macs for which I have no LanWORKS client license to use the Vax server? If it *isn't* legal, how do I prevent the ravening hordes from doing it? A definitive answer would be appreciated, the local DEC salescritter doesn't seem to know. And no, I have absolutely no intention of purchasing a client copy for every Mac on campus. It's way too expensive. So if I can't legally use LanWORKS or stop illegal use, we stick with Aufs and find another source for MacX. -- Michael Newbery<newbery@rata.vuw.ac.nz> "How would you describe the car that hit you?" "Heavy and hard."
mcguffey@muvms3.bitnet (Michael McGuffey) (09/21/90)
Will the DEC LanWORKS product allow Appleshare / DECnet print and file services throught the use of a DECrouter as a serial link, or do all Macs (including Plus, SE, SE/30) have to have an Ethernet adapter or a Fastpath-like device attached to the Localtalk network? thanks, -- michael ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Michael McGuffey, Director BITNET: mcguffey@marshall Office of Institutional Research Internet: mcguffey%muvms3@wvnvms.wvnet.edu Marshall University Phone: 304/696-3212 Huntington, WV 25755 FAX: 304/696-3601 -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
eirikur@ranger.enet.dec.com (Eirikur Hallgrimsson) (09/25/90)
In article <90262.101538SKG102@psuvm.psu.edu>, SKG102@psuvm.psu.edu writes... >The DEC LanWorks server portion also contains the DAL (CL/1) server and >AppleTalk for Vms. The price quoted in our last DECDirect catalog was $440. >Compare this to the Apple price for just these two pieces of $5000. The >question is simple; which would you but? LanWorks also requires you to >purchase LanWorks for VMS which has a price of $666. The DAL client for the >Mac sells for $695 from Apple and for $295 from DEC. The only question I have >here is that according to DEC their Mac client is only a paper license and that >the software is on the TK50 or Magtape depending on which one you order, since >the Mac reads none of these, how do you get the software? You have to already >have a way to transfer files to your Mac from the VAX to get the connectivity >tools that are supposed to do this. Silly, isn't it? :-) Your quote from the DECdirect catalog is too high for some reason. The per-Mac license price for the product is $295. Pretty unbelievable. The $4xx.00 price refers to the TK50 or magtape and documentation kit--you only need one of those. If you do not have access to a VMS system in order to read the tape, talk to your local DEC sales office about putting it onto Mac disks for you. They should be willing to do that as a part of the sale. If they aren't willing to do that, let me know--it's just a communication problem and it can be fixed. "I came to discuss plastic surgery, but I could wait." -- Martha Frankel Eirikur Hallgrimsson eh@ranger.enet.dec.com
eirikur@ranger.enet.dec.com (Eirikur Hallgrimsson) (09/25/90)
In article <25472@muvms3.bitnet>, mcguffey@muvms3.bitnet (Michael McGuffey) writes... > >Will the DEC LanWORKS product allow Appleshare / DECnet print and file >services throught the use of a DECrouter as a serial link, or do all >Macs (including Plus, SE, SE/30) have to have an Ethernet adapter or >a Fastpath-like device attached to the Localtalk network? You have to be able to route Appletalk from the Mac to the server. Any solution that extends Appletalk will work. File and Print services over other transports are not supported, but are under study for the future. Before considering a FastPath or other Appletalk routers, I strongly recommend that you look at the rapidly dropping prices of Ethernet boards. You get much more speed, and you remove an item that requires management. A Mac Plus will still require this kind of solution. That said, there's another mechanism that might be of some use: DECnet tunneling. You can tunnel Appletalk via DECnet, but it requires a VAX (could be a very small one) at each end. This is typically used between geographicall distributed Ethernets. For performance reasons, you really don't want to be using file server volumes or print spoolers that are linked to you by a serial line unless it is a really fast one. 19.2 Kilobaud is the bare minimum, and I would not expect you to be satisified with that. That is *much* slower than LocalTalk. "I came to discuss plastic surgery, but I could wait." -- Martha Frankel Eirikur Hallgrimsson eh@ranger.enet.dec.com