geoff@pmafire.UUCP (Geoff Allen) (10/20/90)
Crossposting to comp.sys.mac.comm, followups directed there. The product announcement for uAccess said (in part): |This is a product announcement for ICE Engieering's new uAccess. | |The list price for uAccess is $375. |ICE is offering the product directly for $275 until Nov 15. And vnend@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (D. W. James) responded: > Well, in spite of the glowing comments I've heard from some >of the Beta testers, I doubt that I'll be getting it. Same here. As I recall, when Tim asked for beta testers for this, he also asked if he should release it as shareware or very cheap commercial product (like, $20). Response was such that people wanted support from him, even if it meant paying more. I was expecting something along these lines, but $300 (discounted)? No thanks! > Look at it this way: If I want news on my Mac (I already have >mail. All that took was the time to FTP it and tinker a bit. I'll >be looking at the GNU port soon as well. Both are free and come with >source.) and I have much more than a Plus, then for less than $100 >more than ICE wants for uAccess I can have AUX or one of the Mach ports, >which gives me access to mail and news as well as a host of other things. >(Note: I tend to think in terms of University pricing because I can.) I've been wondering about Minix. If Minix can run uucp, news and mail, then that's definitely the cost-conscious way to go. > Now, I'm a fairly knowledgable user, so I'm not afraid of >programs I can't just plug and play, but I know a lot of people who >will only use stuff they can use as a package. Is there a market >amoungst this type of user for a mail/news link? I guess ICE is >betting that there is, and that they are a well-heeled bunch as well. >The communications I've had with them (ok, Tim is the only one. Is he >the only person there?) gives me the impression that they are nice >folks, and for that reason alone I wish them luck. But I don't think >I can afford to patronize them... Yeah. Seems to me that there's a *much* smaller market for this than for, say, CompuServe Navigator, and I doubt how many copies of Navigator you'd sell at $395 list. -- Geoff Allen \ Computers are useless. uunet!pmafire!geoff \ They can only give you answers. bigtex!pmafire!geoff \ -- Pablo Picasso
time@tbomb.ice.com (Tim Endres) (10/21/90)
In article <1990Oct19.205526.19190@pmafire.UUCP>, geoff@pmafire.UUCP (Geoff Allen) writes: > > Well, in spite of the glowing comments I've heard from some > >of the Beta testers, I doubt that I'll be getting it. > > Same here. As I recall, when Tim asked for beta testers for this, he > also asked if he should release it as shareware or very cheap commercial > product (like, $20). Response was such that people wanted support from > him, even if it meant paying more. I was expecting something along > these lines, but $300 (discounted)? No thanks! > Well, I guess I can shed some light on the pricing. When I originally posted to the net, as you have indicated, I asked if the product should be PD, SHW, or Commercial. Shortly after that posting, it became obvious that there was a commercial market for this product, and that market wanted a commercial product. What I mean to say is that a number of businesses and at home consultants wanted software they could rely upon, as to them it was a business tool and not entertainment software. In order to create *and support* a commercial product of this magnitude, and make all of the necessary distribution channels happy (there is a large part of the price), the list price had to be in the range it is now. Otherwise, you may as well forget being successful in that arena. I must admit that the only response I have received on the price from the commercial market was that it was low and continued support was questioned. What this means is that a large segment of the users that I originally wished to market to would be left behind. There was no business decision that could rectify this circumstance. Hopefully, I can help this situation out down the road. The plan, although it will take some time, is to produce a copy of the application for the "limited-budget" croud. This would simply leave out some of the more luxury features (like the ability to forward news to other sites) and bring the discounted price down into the $99-150 range. This would address the needs of the at home and educational users much better. You have to remember the costs involved in ramping up a new product and realize that after the first few waves of distribution the costs come down making it easier to produce and sell for the lower price market. I must make one other comment, and thank people for not getting into huge flames about our making the commercial product decision. It was a difficult decision to make, as my heart is in PD software, but one must occasionally play by the capitalist rules which govern. Thank you for your time, tim. ------------------------------------------------------------- Tim Endres | time@ice.com ICE Engineering | uunet!ice.com!time 8840 Main Street | Whitmore Lake MI. 48189 | (313) 449 8288
phil@shl.uucp (Phil Trubey) (10/21/90)
In article <1990Oct19.205526.19190@pmafire.UUCP> geoff@pmafire.UUCP (Geoff Allen) writes: >Yeah. Seems to me that there's a *much* smaller market for this than >for, say, CompuServe Navigator, and I doubt how many copies of Navigator >you'd sell at $395 list. But CompuServe can subsidize the cost and support for Navigator with all the future revenue they will be getting from on-line connection charges. CompuServe could give away Navigator and still make money. And you're right, it is a smaller market (maybe, see below) so they have to charge more to recoup development costs. Don't get me wrong, I also think $395 is *way* too expensive. I am not too sure which target market ICE is going after with a $395 price tag. Current usenet readers? Who are they? (Good question: does anyone know whether an attempt has been made to classify the types of people of read usenet? ie. undergrad students, working for a research company, working for a profit making company, private connection from home, etc.) I could be wrong but I would think that most usenet users would have to spring for uAccess out their own entertainment pocket money. I asked Tim of ICE that question a little while back and haven't received a reply. Which maybe just means I was too nosy. I don't know if it has occured to anyone else, but somthing like uAccess has potentially a much larger target market if it sold right. It could be sold head to head with Microsoft Mail, and all the other Mac e-mail packages that businesses are snapping up. It has much better WAN support than these packages have and it has great conferencing abilities to boot. As far as I know, the Mac market is devoid of good conferencing programs... Which would make the $395 price tag realistic... -- Phil Trubey (UUCP: ...!uunet!shl!phil)
kdb@macaw.intercon.com (Kurt Baumann) (10/23/90)
In article <1990Oct19.205526.19190@pmafire.UUCP>, geoff@pmafire.UUCP (Geoff Allen) writes: > Yeah. Seems to me that there's a *much* smaller market for this than > for, say, CompuServe Navigator, and I doubt how many copies of Navigator > you'd sell at $395 list. Well, I guess that is what happens when you look at things from the University outlook. Not, mind you, that I am saying that looking at things that way is bad. We sell a $495 TCP/IP product (we also have $195 and $295 versions) commercially, and we sell a fair number of them, enough that we can support 6-8 people and their eating habits. :-) Support does not come cheap, no one works for peanuts, companies are set up to make money. These are just a few of the things that end up creating a "high" list price for software. It also might be pointed out that most, if not all, companies offer reasonable educational discounts, I know we do. Today, it is a much smaller market than say Navigator (ugly though it is). That is yet another reason that this type of software costs more. If I could sell +1 million copies of my package I could price it for much less than $495. But the market is not that large right now, it is growing, but there is no where near 1 million Macs on networks right now... So... Any price you pick for software is going to loose some people from your potential client list. Unfortunatly when the market is small to begin with you end up having to charge more, or not bother even getting into the market. I say good luck to these guys (if there is more than one :-)). -- Kurt Baumann InterCon Systems Corporation 703.709.9890 Creators of fine TCP/IP products 703.709.9896 FAX for the Macintosh.