cb@hlwpc.UUCP (Carl Blesch) (12/20/84)
I'm approaching the building of a Lionel empire for my son "bass-ackwards," as they say, so I thought I'd solicit some comments from Lionel experts on the net. In some junk I weeded out of my parents' basement last year, I found an old Lionel steam engine and power pack. I have no idea where it came from, 'cause I never owned Lionel. (I owned an American Flyer set, which my parents gave away when I grew up and "graduated" to HO. I grieve every time I think of that, but I digress. We all have our "fish that got away" stories!) Anyway, I thought I'd visit a local store that specializes in Lionel (Millburn Train and Vacuum, for you northern New Jersey net readers) and find out if I could build from there. Turns out I can. They sell track, cars, locomotives and accessories by the piece. Sooo, I decided to start by buying enough track to make an oval. First question the clerk asked me -- "do you have O or O27?" My reply, "Huh?" So he showed me both. I liked O better. Looked more rugged. So I bought eight curves and four straight pieces. $1.75 each, or $20+ with tax. Nice oval for under the Christmas tree this year, and I can buy more track to expand it. With fantasies of Jim Hill, the empire builder, I called the store today and asked how much crossings and switches (turnouts) cost. My concept -- about $10. Store clerk: "No way. $57 for a reconditioned switch." Me: "Reconditioned? How about new?" Clerk: "You don't want to know!" So I'm wondering now -- is there a big price difference between O and O27? The clerk was busy with shoppers, so I couldn't talk and price all the possible components and options I might have. Also, I assume O27 is newer. Are regular O accessories (crossings, turnouts, and odd-pieces) going the way of the dinosaurs? Are the two are compatible? At first glance, it doesn't look that way. (Kind of like VHS and Beta videotape. Both tapes are 1/2 inch wide, but the cassette dimensions aren't the same.) Is O27 rugged enough for all practical purposes? Thanks in advance for any thoughts, tips and suggestions you may offer. Carl Blesch
mangoe@umcp-cs.UUCP (Charley Wingate) (12/24/84)
As I recall, the primary difference between O and O27 is in the radius of the turns that the locomotives can manage. O27 has *much* sharper turns-- suggesting that your O gauge engine might not be able to handle a O27 turnout. Charley Wingate umcp-cs!mangoe
friedman@uiucdcs.UUCP (12/27/84)
Re. Lionel O vs. O27: Both "gauges" are pretty old. They have the same nominal scale (O), and the same track gauge (distance between rails). They differ in the diameter of a track circle, in the rail height, and in other details such as the one you noted: ruggedness. They also differ somewhat in price. In all cases, O is larger. It is not usually practical to mix the two forms in one layout; they do not connect together very well. The name "O27" comes from the diameter of a track circle, 27 inches; I think O has a 31 inch circle. There is also a variation, sometimes called "O72", compatible with O in every way, having a 72 inch circle; it can be used with O to make gentler, more realistic curves, but of course that makes the layout less compact. Be aware that the larger pieces of the old rolling stock, especially engines, were designed for either O or O27, and don't necessarily run as well on the other track. For example, an engine designed for O might not clear the housing on an O27 track switch, and one designed for O27 might not clear some between- the-rails stuff on O track; I have samples of both problems on my Lionel collection, most of which dates from the 1950s. I'm not sure whether the more recent Lionel rolling stock has this problem. A Lionel expert (that salesman, perhaps) should be able to tell you from the engine's number or from inspecting it whether it's "old" Lionel or the newer "Fundimensions" Lionel product, and which gauge it was designed for. Track switches come in two forms for each gauge: manual and automatic. The automatic feature solenoids that control the switch from wherever you choose to mount the toggle; most also have insulated sections of one of the outer rails wired so that if a train approaches a converging switch set against it, the switch is thrown automatically. Manual is of course a lot cheaper, but neither form is cheap. There are some non-Lionel three-rail tracks available in hobby shops that are compatible. Most are more realistic looking. I don't know how they compare in price, nor how they perform; I've never used them.
lucas (pete lucas) @ cmu-psy-a (12/29/84)
To answer your specific question: yes, there is a big price difference between 0 and 027. 027 track and, to a lesser extent, switches, are generally considered "junk" by serious collectors and often go for a song at train meets (after the requisite haggling, of course). As for current production, Lionel/General Mills has two separate product lines: The "traditional" line is all 027, relatively inexpensive, and mostly looks it. The "collector" series consists of ressurections of old Lionel, including 0 guage switches and such. The latter is definitely aimed at collectors, not the mass market, which explains the prices you found. All things considered, you should almost certainly find a train meet and stick with used 0 guage. Actually, there is a third option, one which is dear to my heart. From 1957 through the mid 60's, Lionel produced a track called Super-O. It was intended to eventually replace O as the top-of-the-line track (which never happened). Super-O has a slightly wider turn radius than O (36" I believe) and is radically different from traditinal tinplate track. Instead of the usual 3 metal ties, it had reasonably realistic (by toy-train standards) closely spaced plastic ties. Instead of a full center rail, it had a less-obtrusive flat copper-clad strip for center power pick-up. Each section came with an easily-lost metal clip for connecting the power rails. The outer rails had flat-topped "T" rail cross-sections, rather than the rounded, tubular rails of O and O27. There was a full line of switches, crossovers, etc available, although the quality of the switches was not as high as O guage. This stuff is harder to find than O or O27 and costs somewhat more than O, but it is usually avaiable at good train meets. It makes a really pretty layout, adding a touch of realism while maintaining the toy-train charm of Lionel O guage tinplate. Of course, there is no current production and little likelyhood that there ever will be. I've run Super-O since my parents stumbled across a Christmas-eve (of 1957) closeout of a top-of-the-line set including a 746 N&W Niagra and 4 major accessories for the wild price of $50! I am exceedingly pleased to report that I still have that set. They don't all get away. -pete