ken@helix.nih.gov (Ken Weeks) (12/01/90)
I'm having a little problem here... I've been using NCSA Telnet to talk to my VAX, which is running a Telnet server. I recently "converted" from the embedded TCP driver version to the Mac TCP version. No problems at first...but as of late, I've noticed a severe, repeatable "hang" when I use the VMS "TYPE" commands, or list a long directory. Just that session hangs - I can log in again and kill it from the VAX side. I tried dropping back to the embedded driver version of NCSA Telnet, and the problem goes away. And myPC (don't flame me, I gotta support these beasts, too!) doesn't hang using its version of NCSA Telnet, doing the same things on the VAX. I may have a sneaky INIT conflict here, and be unfairly blaming MacTCP (Forgive me, Great Rainbow Father in Cupertino). Any well-known conflicts out there? For the record, I'm running on a IIci, System 6.0.7, Mac TCP 1.0.1, NCSA Telnet 2.3.1. I've got a cache card, too (Micron), but turning it on and off seems to make no difference. For the poster looking for an SMTP mailer DA - I know, it's not a DA, but - I second the recommendation of the Eudora POP mail client by Steve Dorner. It's a jewel - we've been using it for the past month or so with no problems. Ken Weeks National Institutes of Health, Bethesda, MD. "Once in a while you get shown the light, In the strangest of places, if you look at it right..."
brad@andros.cayman.com (Brad Parker) (12/02/90)
In article <693@nih-csl.nih.gov> ken@helix.nih.gov (Ken Weeks) writes:
I've been using NCSA Telnet to talk to my VAX, which is running a Telnet
server. I recently "converted" from the embedded TCP driver version to
the Mac TCP version. No problems at first...but as of late, I've noticed a
severe, repeatable "hang" when I use the VMS "TYPE" commands, or list a
long directory. Just that session hangs - I can log in again and kill it
I think the "mss" or maximum segment size of the TCP you are using is
too large for your gateway. Under NCSA you can set it (in the
config.tel file) to a small number like 512 which will not require
that you gateway fragment the packets. Under MacTCP, is it not settable, and
I think MacTCP 1.0 has a bug which causes it to guess wrong; (or at least
guess a number which causes you to need a gateway which will fragment
properly)
I'll go out on a limb and guess that your mac is on localtalk and you're
using a gateway to get to the ethernet. If the gateway is a fastpath, it
may not support fragmentation of IP packets too big to be encapsulated
in a single localtalk packet (~600 bytes); If the gateway is a gatorbox,
you're software may be out of date as we used to have this problem
but fixed it.
If this makes no sense, send me mail and I'll explain more.
-brad
--
"Medea... she led Jason and Orpheus to the sacred garden which contained the
fleece."
Brad Parker Cayman Systems, Inc., Cambridge, Ma. brad@cayman.comconrad@harvarda.harvard.edu (Conrad C. Nobili) (12/03/90)
In article <BRAD.90Dec1133259@andros.cayman.com> brad@andros.cayman.com (Brad Parker) writes: > > In article <693@nih-csl.nih.gov> ken@helix.nih.gov (Ken Weeks) writes: > > I've been using NCSA Telnet to talk to my VAX, which is running a Telnet > server. I recently "converted" from the embedded TCP driver version to > the Mac TCP version. No problems at first...but as of late, I've noticed a > severe, repeatable "hang" when I use the VMS "TYPE" commands, or list a > long directory. Just that session hangs - I can log in again and kill it > > I think the "mss" or maximum segment size of the TCP you are using is > too large for your gateway. Under NCSA you can set it (in the > config.tel file) to a small number like 512 which will not require > that you gateway fragment the packets. Under MacTCP, is it not settable, and > I think MacTCP 1.0 has a bug which causes it to guess wrong; (or at least > guess a number which causes you to need a gateway which will fragment > properly) I would be interested in some clarification of this possible MacTCP 1.0 bug. Brad, did you not notice that Ken said he was using MacTCP 1.0.1? Does your use of the "1.0" version number mean that you think 1.0.1 fixes the bug? Or does it mean that it won't be fixed until version "2.0"? (Here I am making the assumption that 1.0.1 is still the current version. Do you developers have a newer one I don't know about?) > I'll go out on a limb and guess that your mac is on localtalk and you're > using a gateway to get to the ethernet. If the gateway is a fastpath, it > may not support fragmentation of IP packets too big to be encapsulated > in a single localtalk packet (~600 bytes); If the gateway is a gatorbox, > you're software may be out of date as we used to have this problem > but fixed it. Also, I am a bit puzzled by your suggestion that the "mss" is too large for the gateway. Unless I am confused about how the config.tel file works, your suggestion to set the maximum segment size higher there doesn't make sense in light of your "out on a limb" guess about Ken's setup. I.e., if indeed Ken does have a Mac on LocalTalk and is using a gateway to get to the ethernet, does he not HAVE to have "hardware=AppleTalk" in his config.tel file for non-MacTCP versions of NCSA Telnet to work at all? And if so, does he not HAVE to have "maxseg=512" in his config.tel file already for non-MacTCP versions of NCSA Telnet to work at all? Can Brad or others clear me up on these things? The reason I am curious about all this detail is that Ken's problem has some similarities to the one I posted yesterday. ("Liaison: TCP/IP services & dial-in access problems" <<1789>>) I know that mostly there are differences, but I too have a "severe repeatable 'hang'" after having been logged on ok for some time (in my case it seems to be a TIME-dependent thing after five minutes), and, having a Mac on LocalTalk and a GatorBox as the gateway, I was interested in Brad's ideas on the subject. (By the way, Brad, my GatorShare 1.5 software is not current (as of last week, I think 8-) ), but current enough not to be "out of date" as you meant it to Ken, if I read the GatorAid 1.5 handbook correctly, so that's not MY problem....) I apologize if this should have been e-mailed to Brad rather than posted to the net. Can someone flame me via e-mail and clue me in if that's the case? Thanks. C o n r a d C . N o b i l i Harvard University | Internet: conrad@harvarda.harvard.edu Office for Information Technology | BITNET: CONRAD AT HARVARDA Information Services | voice: (617) 495-8554 Technical and User Services | fax: (617) 495-0715 < < < D i s c l a i m e r > > >
bschmidt@bnr.ca (Ben Schmidt) (12/03/90)
In article <BRAD.90Dec1133259@andros.cayman.com> brad@andros.cayman.com (Brad Parker) writes: >> In article <693@nih-csl.nih.gov> ken@helix.nih.gov (Ken Weeks) writes: >> >> I've been using NCSA Telnet to talk to my VAX, which is running a >> Telnet server. I recently "converted" from the embedded TCP driver >> version to the Mac TCP version. No problems at first...but as of late, >> I've noticed a severe, repeatable "hang" when I use the VMS "TYPE" >> commands, or list a long directory. Just that session hangs - I can log >> in again and kill it > I think the "mss" or maximum segment size of the TCP you are using is > too large for your gateway. Under NCSA you can set it (in the > config.tel file) to a small number like 512 which will not require > that you gateway fragment the packets. Under MacTCP, is it not settable, > and I think MacTCP 1.0 has a bug which causes it to guess wrong; (or at > least guess a number which causes you to need a gateway which will fragment > properly) > > I'll go out on a limb and guess that your mac is on localtalk and you're > using a gateway to get to the ethernet. If the gateway is a fastpath, it > may not support fragmentation of IP packets too big to be encapsulated > in a single localtalk packet (~600 bytes); If the gateway is a gatorbox, > you're software may be out of date as we used to have this problem > but fixed it. Yup. It sure sounds like a MacTCP 1.0 bug with MSS which affected Macs on LocalTalk. Are you using MacTCP 1.01? Ben Schmidt Bell-Northern Research, Ltd. Ph: (613) 763-3906 Information P.O. Box 3511, Station C FAX:(613) 763-3283 Technology Ottawa Canada K1Y 4H7 bschmidt@bnr.ca
bschmidt@bnr.ca (Ben Schmidt) (12/04/90)
In article <693@nih-csl.nih.gov> ken@helix.nih.gov (Ken Weeks) writes: > I've been using NCSA Telnet to talk to my VAX, which is running a Telnet > server. I recently "converted" from the embedded TCP driver version to > the Mac TCP version. No problems at first...but as of late, I've noticed > a severe, repeatable "hang" when I use the VMS "TYPE" commands, or list a > long directory. Just that session hangs - I can log in again and kill it > from the VAX side. I tried dropping back to the embedded driver version > of NCSA Telnet, and the problem goes away. And myPC (don't flame me, I > gotta support these beasts, too!) doesn't hang using its version of NCSA > Telnet, doing the same things on the VAX. > > I may have a sneaky INIT conflict here, and be unfairly blaming MacTCP > (Forgive me, Great Rainbow Father in Cupertino). Any well-known > conflicts out there? Definitely try without any INITS ('cept MacTCP) and try again. If it's not too much bother, you might try dropping back to sys 6.0.5 (Just rename your sys 6.0.7 system folder, unbless it by dragging it's Finder out, and do a standard Apple install with the sys 6.0.5 discs. You'll get a clean 6.0.5 system folder, while still leaving your system 6.0.7 system intact.) > For the record, I'm running on a IIci, System 6.0.7, Mac TCP 1.0.1, NCSA > Telnet 2.3.1. I've got a cache card, too (Micron), but turning it on > and off seems to make no difference. Ahh, more information. The plot thickens. So it's not the MacTCP 1.0 MSS bug. :^( Are you on LocalTalk or Ethernet? If LocalTalk what DDP/IP gateway are you using and what's it running? As well what TCP/IP server s/w is on the VAX (I've come across my share of flaky VAX TCP/IP implementations. Wollongong's doesn't understand proxy ARPs, and I came across another whose name fortunately escapes me that didn't support PINGS!) And finally, do you have another IP host, you can try, preferably a SUN? I have the same setup as you, only DayStar's cache and I use Sys 6.0.5 on my IIci. (Gee, aren't you the keener. :^) Regardless of whether I run through LocalTalk and a K-STAR 8.0 FastPath 4, (Rev. J or higher), or my Apple Ethernet card (Rev. K or higher), everything works perfectly. Good luck. Ben Schmidt Bell-Northern Research, Ltd. Ph: (613) 763-3906 Information P.O. Box 3511, Station C FAX:(613) 763-3283 Technology Ottawa Canada K1Y 4H7 bschmidt@bnr.ca
tl@cmi.no (tom lislegaard) (12/10/90)
I have tried a few MacTCP based applications lately, and experienced
strange problems with certain programs and certain hosts.
The characteristic behaviour of a failing program is that the connection
is made and recognized as 'established' by both parties, but the called
port does not respond with any data.
Each packet from the client is ACK'ed by the server, but thats all.
A few examples:
- Using the example hypercard stack of macTCP-toolkit I can connect
without problems to ftp, nntp, or smtp ports of a sun (any OS),
but telnet does not work.
Same with a mips running Umips 4.30.
A pyramid with OSx 5.0 is dead silent on all ports with this
toolkit.
Trying a vax with some ancient version of excelan tcp/ip
I'm able to login as normal.
- NCSA telnet 2.3 works with any of the systems above.
- Bill Cramers newsreader 'TheNews' has no trouble with either the
pyramid or sunOS nntp.
- The mail client 'eudora' works with any sun, but not with pyramid.
(by the way both eudora and TheNews are quite nice, much better than
the hypercard stuff like Mews, netnews, popmail....).
The mac is directly on the ethernet with a excelan etherport II card.
I've tried a few different things on the mac side:
- system versions 6.03 and 6.05
- macTCP 1.0, 1.0.1, 1.0.1a2
- pulling out any startup documents and the like from the system folder
and booting only finder.
Traceing with etherfind reveals only differences in the advertised window
size and max segment size ( why does macTCP use different mss for different
programs ?).
I hope some macTCP or tcp/ip experts can explain whats going on here
( or even better - propose a solution ).
Tom Lislegaard <tl@kheops.cmi.no>
CMI