eer36024@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Erik Reuter) (12/15/90)
I am trying to learn about news and email readers for the mac that will work over a modem. I know little to nothing about them. I currently log on to a UNIX machine with Zterm on a limited account I obtained from my University. At 2400 baud, reading more than a very small amount of news is quite time consuming. It seems that the perfect job for my Mac would be to capture the newsfiles I read in the background while I am doing something else, and then provide a nice user interface for me to read and post news. Is there a program to do this? Or should I forget about it and just use Zterm? I have heard of uAccess, but when I asked locally about how I would go about getting my machine set up to do UUCP I received this: (I don't understand most of it! :-( ****** >UUCP accounts are in general a pain to maintain. For that reason I establish >them only for managed multi-user machines that are likely to be around for a >while. In particular the link must be bi-directional so that trouble one >way does not disable the link and cause mail to accumulate (or bounce). >Another gotcha is that CSO provides only NNTP links for news. >SLIP is a much better way to go than UUCP. > Paul Pomes >UUCP: {att,iuvax,uunet}!uiucuxc!paul Internet, BITNET: paul@uxc.cso.uiuc.edu >US Mail: UofIllinois, CSO, 1304 W Springfield Ave, Urbana, IL 61801-2910 ****** >paul@uxc.cso.uiuc.edu (Paul Pomes - UofIllinois CSO) writes: >> Okay, so what is SLIP? What program might I get to use it? >SLIP = Serial Line IP. See RFC 1171 and 1172 for the specification. I'm >sure there are implementations of it, however I don't keep track of them. >The Micro Resource Center is probably aware of several versions. >> The reason I am interested in this is just that I spend a lot of time >>reading news and mail, and I am rarely around a convenient network connected >>computer. I have this nice computer and 2400 baud modem in my apartment, >>and it seems that there should be a better way than logging onto uxa >>with a terminal program. >Why? Aren't Macs just very small terminals with terrible keyboards? For >email I would obtain Eudora from the Micro Resource Center or the IMAP package >from ftphost.cac.washington.edu. Shipping news to your Mac is the wrong >paradigm, the Mac should be viewed as a remote news reader that provides a >interface to News. Again there are several Mac programs for reading News. >In any case the MRC should be your first stop for questions like these. ********************* -- Erik Reuter, Internet: e-reuter@uiuc.edu UUCP: uunet!uiucuxc!uiuc.edu!e-reuter
resnick@cogsci.uiuc.edu (Pete Resnick) (12/15/90)
<Eric asks many questions about mail and news by modem...> I respect Paul Pommes and owe alot to him, but he does have a way of not being able to explain things to people when they are totally in the dark; somewhat less than in the dark he's fine, but real beginners.... For mail, you have no problem. Eudora, by Steve Dorner here at UIUC, can work over a serial line using the Communications Toolbox. I would speak to him to see if you can do it over a modem here, but I think you can. News and other things are a more interesting problem. Remember that things like news run using the TCP/IP network protocol to communicate with the server. TCP/IP can be run over alot of different hardware, though you will commonly see it on Ethernet, which is a pretty quick medium. Running it over a 2400 baud line is already a bummer, but it gets worse. The TCP/IP implementation for the Mac, MacTCP, doesn't (yet?) support TCP/IP over a serial line (TCP/IP over a serial line is called SLIP, as Paul pointed out). Because of this, writing a news program to work over a serial line would involve a) setting something up using the Communications Toolbox, which I believe would take some programming on the server end, or b) programming your own SLIP driver for your news reader, which would be a huge task. So, until Apple comes out with a SLIP driver for MacTCP, you are pretty much stuck. Even if and when they do, I would not want to be the one waiting for the news messages to download from the server! Good luck, pr -- Pete Resnick (...so what is a mojo, and why would one be rising?) Graduate assistant - Philosophy Department, Gregory Hall, UIUC System manager - Cognitive Science Group, Beckman Institute, UIUC Internet/ARPAnet/EDUnet : resnick@cogsci.uiuc.edu BITNET (if no other way) : FREE0285@UIUCVMD
Bruce.Hoult@bbs.actrix.gen.nz (12/17/90)
I think we've all got the same problem. I use a bbs that gets a netfeed,
have it save new messages into a file, and then get it to compress and
zmodem everything to me as one file. Then I use MPW and a couple of simple
macros to page back and forth through the file.
Here are the macros for next msg/prev msg. If anyone improves them, please
send me a copy.
# Press <cmd>-<spacebar> to find next message
AddMenu News 'Next Msg/ ' '\d
if "`sizewindow "{active}"`" <> "{newsWindowSize}";\d
set newsWindowSize "`sizewindow "{active}"`";\d
(evaluate "{newsWindowSize}" =~ /sizewindow [0-9]+ ([0-9]+)\r1 \x/) \wdev:null;\d
set newsLineOffset `evaluate ({\r1}-19) \/ (\d`format -x s "{active}"\d`*5\/4)\/2`;\d
end;\d
mark -y /\8From: (\x\dn)\`0,{newsLineOffset}\|/\j "<-Current Msg->" "{active}";\d
find \\\8Subject: \\\j:/\5/ "{active}"\d
'
# Press <cmd>-<option>-<spacebar> to find prev message
AddMenu News 'Prev Msg/\ ' '\d
if "`sizewindow "{active}"`" <> "{newsWindowSize}";\d
set newsWindowSize "`sizewindow "{active}"`";\d
(evaluate "{newsWindowSize}" =~ /sizewindow [0-9]+ ([0-9]+)\r1 \x/) \wdev:null;\d
set newsLineOffset `evaluate ({\r1}-19) \/ (\d`format -x s "{active}"\d`*5\/4)\/2`;\d
end;\d
find \j\\\8From: \\ "{active}";\d
mark -y \\\8From: (\x\dn)\`{newsLineOffset}\|\\\j "<-Current Msg->" "{active}";\d
find \\\8Subject: \\\j:/\5/ "{active}"\d
'
I've used Lawrence D'Oliveiro's (ldo@waikato.ac.nz) MPW2ASCII program to
convert these to something the net can handle -- it was posted here recently.
If you don't have it you can convert back manually without *too* much trouble.
The general rule is: replace \x with <option>x. There are a few ecceptions,
of which the main ones are probably \\ becomes \ and \` becomes <option>\
--
Bruce.Hoult@bbs.actrix.gen.nz Twisted pair: +64 4 772 116
BIX: brucehoult Last Resort: PO Box 4145 Wellington, NZkdb@macaw.intercon.com (Kurt Baumann) (12/18/90)
In article <1990Dec15.031953.24134@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>, resnick@cogsci.uiuc.edu (Pete Resnick) writes: > So, until Apple comes out with a SLIP driver for MacTCP, you are > pretty much stuck. Even if and when they do, I would not want to be > the one waiting for the news messages to download from the server! Hmm, well we have a commercial package that will do the following over SLIP, News (NNTP reader), Mail SMTP/POP2 (3 coming), telnet, FTP, etc... Now this is not done over MacTCP, but when you are on a Mac not directly on the network who cares if you using MacTCP? Our package uses our builtin TCP/IP stack to provide SLIP functionality. We have educational discounts, and can be reached at 703.709.9890 X231 sales. Hope this helps. As far as I know this is the only package that allows you to do what you want over SLIP. -- Kurt Baumann InterCon Systems Corporation 703.709.9890 Creators of fine TCP/IP products 703.709.9896 FAX for the Macintosh.
resnick@cogsci.uiuc.edu (Pete Resnick) (12/18/90)
kdb@macaw.intercon.com (Kurt Baumann) writes: >Hmm, well we have a commercial package that will do the following over SLIP, >News (NNTP reader), Mail SMTP/POP2 (3 coming), telnet, FTP, etc... Sorry Kurt. Did not mean to forget your product. I only think in terms of shareware, being the poor starving grad student that I am. No offense intended. pr -- Pete Resnick (...so what is a mojo, and why would one be rising?) Graduate assistant - Philosophy Department, Gregory Hall, UIUC System manager - Cognitive Science Group, Beckman Institute, UIUC Internet/ARPAnet/EDUnet : resnick@cogsci.uiuc.edu BITNET (if no other way) : FREE0285@UIUCVMD
jmm@lsuc.on.ca (John Macdonald) (12/18/90)
In article <1990Dec15.031953.24134@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> resnick@cogsci.uiuc.edu (Pete Resnick) writes: > >For mail, you have no problem. Eudora, by Steve Dorner here at UIUC, >can work over a serial line using the Communications Toolbox. I would >speak to him to see if you can do it over a modem here, but I think >you can. > >News and other things are a more interesting problem. Remember that >things like news run using the TCP/IP network protocol to communicate >with the server. There is nothing about news that requires TCP/IP. The original news software was designed to run using modem and uucp connections. The more recent variants have added support for using the NNTP protocol over TCP/IP networks to the previous functionality, but in no way has the capability of using non TCP/IP connections been lost. There is no reason that it would not be possible to run news from a Mac. However, this does not mean that I am claiming that it has been done, just that it could. It would be done using a few background Multi Finder programs - one to run the modem and the UUCP protocol, and a second to process News batches after they were received. Another foreground program could be used to read the news after it was received. Perhaps, it would be possible to use Eudora as a basis for the modem/uucp portion, and then it would (just :-) be a matter of porting the news batch processing to the Mac - anybody got a few spare months?
eer36024@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Erik Reuter) (12/18/90)
Concerning serial port compatible Mac news readers, I asked
Steve Dorner (author of Eudora, the mac e-mail program which supports
TCP/IP and serial access) if he would consider writing a news reader
with serial capabilities. His reply was that he would like to write
such a program, and that the more requests he receives for such a program,
the more likely he is to write it.
So, if you would like to see a Mac news reader from the author of
Eudora, send Steve Dorner mail requesting it. ( _Especially_ if you are
a UIUC student). Steve Dorner: s-dorner@uiuc.edu
--
Erik Reuter, Internet: e-reuter@uiuc.edu UUCP: uunet!uiucuxc!uiuc.edu!e-reuterkrk@cs.purdue.EDU (Kevin Kuehl) (12/18/90)
In article <1990Dec18.042719.1383@lsuc.on.ca> jmm@lsuc.on.ca (John Macdonald) writes: >There is nothing about news that requires TCP/IP. The original news >software was designed to run using modem and uucp connections. So true. Even though a lot of us are spoiled with TCP/IP (:-)), there are a great deal of people who still use the AT&T network and modems to read news. -- Kevin Kuehl krk@cs.purdue.edu kuehlkr@mentor.cc.purude.edu
time@tbomb.ice.com (Tim Endres) (12/19/90)
In article <1990Dec18.042719.1383@lsuc.on.ca>, jmm@lsuc.on.ca (John Macdonald) writes: > [ discussion ] > There is no reason that it would not be possible to run news from a Mac. > However, this does not mean that I am claiming that it has been done, > just that it could. > It is, in fact, done. uAccess, our commercial UUCP mail news program for the Macintosh provides a complete news and mail application running in the background under MultiFinder. UUCP is the current transport protocol. There are also two well known public domain versions of the UUCP g protocol, UUPC and gnu uucp. However, both of these are lacking in the user agent for mail and news. tim.