jawa@thing1.cs.unc.edu (12/26/90)
I have a new 40MB hard drive and am about to back up to floppies & am dreading spending quality time w/ a spinning watch... I realize that the only thing that will improve the situation is a better back up media. But I can't afford a tape drive... Flash of brilliance -> what's my VCR? Chopped Ham? No! Choppe---- basically a large tape drive!!!!! I rarely think of things before the rest of the universe, so ... Does anyone know how to do this... I imagine I'll need a little hardware & some software... does it exist?????? if so for how much?
morris@ucunix.SAN.UC.EDU (Ted Morris) (12/27/90)
Retyped without permission from the Macintosh Product Registry: Videotrax Converts computer data into video signals that can broadcast on any TV chanel at 82,000bps; Videotrax modem works with any standard VCR and can be used as a hard disk backup. [req.] Macintosh Plus or Larger. Videotrax provides a way to back up hard disks on any VCR onto ordinary cassettes. The system is comprised of software, and external controller that plugs into the SCSI port of the Macintosh and a VCR. The software provides step-by-step menus that enable users to back up the entire hard disk or selected folders and files (by name, date, time or changed-since-last-backup) onto standard videotape. Users can furnish their own VCR or they can buy a special Videotrax VCR that performs automatic data backups, as well as ordinary video record and playback. Capacity is 80Mb on a two-hour videocassette. $499 retail; controller and software. $1,299 retail; complete system with Videotrax VCR. Alpha Micro; 3501 Sunflower; PO Box 25059; Santa Ana, CA 92799; 800-992-9779 or 800-821-0612 in CA. ***** I've never used this or known anyone who has, but they've been around for a while, and I think if you check InfoWorld, MacUser, MacWorld, etc., you'll probably find a review. ***** Ted Morris giving up on cutesy .sigs for a while
kellogg@prodigal.psych.rochester.edu (Lars Kellogg-Stedman) (12/27/90)
In article 2001, jawa@thing1.cs.unc.edu () said, in part... > >Does anyone know how to do this... I imagine I'll need a little hardware >& some software... does it exist?????? if so for how much? I once saw an article somewhere describing how to do this - the hardware is available, but I'm not sure where. If you do get a more informative reply, I'd like to here about it... Lars -- ~ ~ | Lars Kellogg-Stedman | "Software rots if not used" O-O | kellogg@prodigal.psych.rochester.edu | - The Tao of Programming | +--------------------------------------+----------------------------------+ -=- | I'm rarely responsible for what I say, do you think anybody else is?
mha@batcomputer.tn.cornell.edu (Mark H. Anbinder) (12/27/90)
In article <18220@thorin.cs.unc.edu> jawa@thing1.cs.unc.edu () writes: > >I have a new 40MB hard drive and am about to back up to floppies & am dreading >spending quality time w/ a spinning watch... > > ... > > Flash of brilliance -> what's my VCR? > Chopped Ham? > No! Choppe---- basically a large tape drive!!!!! > > >I rarely think of things before the rest of the universe, so ... Years ago, I worked part time for a company that had a couple of Apple /// computers and got a backup system that used a VCR as the storage device. So, you haven't thought of anything before the rest of the universe this time! There's no reason that you couldn't use a VCR, in theory, to store large quantities of digital data. The problem is, video tape is NOT really a digital storage medium (I think...) so anyone creating a method of using video tape for backup would have to do some creative digital to analog conversion (and the reverse to read the tape back). All you'd need, I guess, is a combination of software and hardware that would turn a stream of digital data into an NTSC video signal. You could then hook up to a VCR, a camcorder, or whatever, and store everything on tape. I don't know how much you could fit on a tape... the data density would probably have to be pretty low in order to assure adequate reliability. Any hardware whizzes out there have some gears turning in their heads now? :-) I suspect the availability of Digital Audio Tape (DAT) drives will make the video tape approach less practical, but you never know. There are still FAR more people with home VCR's than with home DAT recorders. -- Mark H. Anbinder ************************* mha@theory.tn.cornell.edu BAKA Computers * ******* ...!batcomputer!memory!mha 200 Pleasant Grove Rd. H: (607) 257-3480 ****** Ithaca, NY 14850 W: (607) 257-2070 ***** Memory Alpha BBS 607-257-5822
warner@scubed.com (Ken Warner) (12/28/90)
In article <552@ucunix.SAN.UC.EDU> morris@ucunix.SAN.UC.EDU (Ted Morris) writes:
*Retyped without permission from the Macintosh Product Registry:
*Videotrax
[etc.]
*Capacity is 80Mb on a two-hour videocassette. $499 retail; controller
This doesn't seem like very much ... is this correct? And what is the copy
speed? That is, does it take two hours to back up 80 Meg?
Ken Warnermorris@ucunix.SAN.UC.EDU (Ted Morris) (12/28/90)
I don't have any further information, but based on 80Mb of data, at 86,000bps, at 8 bits per byte?, gives 7441 seconds, divided by 3600 seconds per hour, gives two hours for 80Mb backup. Assuming you use your own VCR, and inexpensive video tape, this might make sense against a dedicated 1/4" cartridge machine...I guess. Ted Morris giving up on cutesy .sigs now and then
granteri@pnet51.orb.mn.org (Grant Erickson) (12/28/90)
In article <18220@thorin.cs.unc.edu> jawa@thing1.cs.unc.edu () writes: >> Flash of brilliance -> what's my VCR? >> Chopped Ham? >> No! Choppe---- basically a large tape drive!!!!! >Years ago, I worked part time for a company that had a couple of Apple /// >computers and got a backup system that used a VCR as the storage device. >So, you haven't thought of anything before the rest of the universe this >time! >There's no reason that you couldn't use a VCR, in theory, to store large >quantities of digital data. The problem is, video tape is NOT really a >digital storage medium (I think...) so anyone creating a method of using >video tape for backup would have to do some creative digital to analog >conversion (and the reverse to read the tape back). > >All you'd need, I guess, is a combination of software and hardware that >would turn a stream of digital data into an NTSC video signal. You could >then hook up to a VCR, a camcorder, or whatever, and store everything on >-- >Mark H. Anbinder ************************* mha@theory.tn.cornell.edu >BAKA Computers * ******* ...!batcomputer!memory!mha >200 Pleasant Grove Rd. H: (607) 257-3480 ****** >Ithaca, NY 14850 W: (607) 257-2070 ***** Memory Alpha BBS 607-257-5822 I can't seem to remember the name of the company off the top of my head, but there was such a product about 2 or 3 years back. It offered a box that decoded and encoded the digital signal and professed to work with DiskFit 1.4 (1.5) and many other popular backup programs. They also offered a VCR you could buy with their nameplate on it if you did not own one. I will scavenge through the back issues of my Mac mags and see if I can find it, and post back to you. Grant Erickson .______________________________________________________. | UUCP: {crash, tcnet}!orbit!pnet51!granteri | | ARPA: crash!orbit!pnet51!granteri@nosc.mil | | INET: granteri@pnet51.orb.mn.org | |------------------------------------------------------| | The right half of the brain controls the left half | | of the body. This means that only left-handed people | | are in their right mind. | !______________________________________________________!
Ken.Warner@f20.n226.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Ken Warner) (12/28/90)
Reply-To: warner@scubed.com
In article <552@ucunix.SAN.UC.EDU> morris@ucunix.SAN.UC.EDU (Ted Morris) writes:
*Retyped without permission from the Macintosh Product Registry:
*Videotrax
[etc.]
*Capacity is 80Mb on a two-hour videocassette. $499 retail; controller
This doesn't seem like very much ... is this correct? And what is the copy
speed? That is, does it take two hours to back up 80 Meg?
Ken Warner
+ Organization: S-CUBED, A Division of Maxwell Labs; San Diego CA
--
Ken Warner - via FidoNet node 1:105/14
UUCP: ...!{uunet!glacier, ..reed.bitnet}!busker!226!20!Ken.Warner
INTERNET: Ken.Warner@f20.n226.z1.FIDONET.ORGalen@crash.cts.com (Alen Shapiro) (12/30/90)
In <555@ucunix.SAN.UC.EDU> morris@ucunix.SAN.UC.EDU (Ted Morris) writes: >I don't have any further information, but based on 80Mb of data, at >86,000bps, at 8 bits per byte?, gives 7441 seconds, divided by 3600 >seconds per hour, gives two hours for 80Mb backup. Assuming you use >your own VCR, and inexpensive video tape, this might make sense against >a dedicated 1/4" cartridge machine...I guess. Sorry guys - couldn't resist this.... On a 2 hour tape (normal mode), it's going to take 2 hours to fully write the tape. :-) Did you know that a 4 hour tape would take 4 hours. --alen the (smart-ass) Lisa Slayer (trying to turn a SPARC into a flame) alen%shappy.uucp@crash.cts.com (a mac+ uucp host - what a concept!!) alen@crash.cts.com ps running the tape in double or triple play modes would take the same amount of time to back up 80Mbytes pps....stepping on the gas to get to the gas station before the gas runs out is also a valid technique and only fails due to the imperfect nature of the universe (IMHO) ;-)
dce@smsc.sony.com (David Elliott) (01/01/91)
In article <1990Dec27.155820.4783@batcomputer.tn.cornell.edu> mha@batcomputer.tn.cornell.edu (Mark H. Anbinder) writes: >There's no reason that you couldn't use a VCR, in theory, to store large >quantities of digital data. The problem is, video tape is NOT really a >digital storage medium (I think...) so anyone creating a method of using >video tape for backup would have to do some creative digital to analog >conversion (and the reverse to read the tape back). No magnetic medium is "really a digital storage medium". Digital data must always be encoded into an analog waveform to be placed onto a tape. With digital encoding, the waveform is recorded at saturation levels to assure the clearest signal. It's probably useful to note that the first commercial digital audio tape setups were done using videotape and a device called a PCM encoder/decoder. It's also useful to note that there exist devices that use magnetic and even optical media with analog encoding (still video cameras such as the Sony Mavica and Canon XapShot, and the laser videodisk). The real problem with using a typical home VCR is that it just isn't made for reading fast streams of data. If you have to stop and back up, it's almost as bad as using an audio cassette recorder. For streaming, the VCR can do a great job, but again that only helps if the computer can keep up. The controller can probably buffer up some data, but eventually you have to stop. In my opinion, the "my VCR should be useful as a backup tape drive" is something along the lines of "my TV should be useful as a monitor", "my monitor should be useful as a TV", or "my CD player should be adaptable to be a CD-ROM reader". Sure, it's possible, but the cost of adapting a unit not designed for a task can often be as high as buying an additional unit. My advice to the original poster is to invest the money in a 45MB removable drive, some cartridges, and a copy of Retrospect. Backups with this setup are a snap (especially with Retrospect 1.2), and you get the additional benefits of an extra hard disk unit.
afton@itsgw.rpi.edu (Alan S. Blue) (01/02/91)
Reply To: jaesyn@apl.washington.edu Actually, here at the Applied Physics Lab, I'm having to set-up a MassComp 6700 to save data at 4Megs/sec (!) to *keep up with a VCR*! Apparently, the VCR (digital of course) can send data at 2M/sec or 4M/sec, and the US Navy (SeaData aqcuisition) would of course lik the fastest possible. (In case you're interested, I'm interleaving three 1Gig SCSI drives at 1.5M/sec each.) So, by my calculations, that makes an 80Meg backup possible in *20 seconds*! Who says back-ups are a pain? Of course, you'd have to write a device driver, and build an interface board, and... :) Jason Smith Applied Physics Lab University of Washington **-------- Posted for Jason by Sam Blue. **-------- Reply to Jason ONLY!! **-------- jaesyn@apl.washington.edu
rjt@sedist.cray.com (Randy Thomas) (01/02/91)
Actually, an 8mm video backup system exists and is marketed today; it's made by Exabyte. Remarketed by many vendors, the various models usually have a basic storage capacity of 2 gigabytes or so - and with longer tapes, carousels for multiple tapes, etc, they go upwards of 20 gigabytes in a single unit. Nifty as all get out. They do, however, wear out tapes pretty fast. Not fair to say that, tho; a tape used for backup gets written to a whole lot more often than a home use video tape... It has a SCSI interface, so I suppose you could attach it to your mac; it mostly behaves like a HUGE streamer drive. I haven't asked, they (or one of the remarketers) may already have mac software for them. It is an EXTREMELY popular backup mechanism for workstation networks - Here at Cray we have them scattered all over our international network, backing up the various Sun servers we have floating around (I have one on my desk attached to a Sun 3/50 that backs up the 3/160 downstairs...). We have a bunch of macs here, and we run macdump to back up their hard disks to the Sun. Every night I pop the backups to the Exabyte drive when the Sun gets backed up... ----- Randy Thomas Voice: (404) 631-2246 Americas Field Technical Support Pager: 800-SKY-PAGE id #27606 Cray Research, Inc. FAX: (404) 631-0911 200 Westpark Dr., Suite 160 Internet: rjt@sedist.cray.com Peachtree City, Ga. 30269 UUCP: uunet!cray!sedist!rjt