dorner@pequod.cso.uiuc.edu (Steve Dorner) (02/05/91)
In article <1991Jan31.083829.1343@urz.unibas.ch> doelz@urz.unibas.ch writes: >In article <Jan.22.20.54.55.1991.26831@remus.rutgers.edu>, rauscher@remus.rutgers.edu (Rich Rauscher) writes: >> Does anybody out there know if there exists or will exist a version >> of MacTCP that will run over a SLIP connection? >I am also VERY interested !!! I think everybody is very interested except Apple management, who seem entirely indifferent. Every time I ask an Apple rep about it, they say "How do you spell that?" and promise to check for me. I never get an answer. The few engineering types I've heard from in Apple seem interested, but say "it's a marketing decision." The ROM disk and the less insane pricing on the new macs seem to indicate that Apple might be figuring out that it's not doing us all a big favor by selling Macintoshes to us. Perhaps this change of attitude will extend to SLIP someday. -- Steve Dorner, U of Illinois Computing Services Office Internet: s-dorner@uiuc.edu UUCP: uunet!uiucuxc!uiuc.edu!s-dorner
smith@ucs.sfu.ca (Richard Smith) (02/05/91)
I have recently been corresponding with a company in France which makes something called TCPack. This product will take communications toolbox compliant applications and run them over tcp/ip (sort of the opposite of what you are talking about) with MacTCP. Has anyone experience with them or this product? I have a lengthy description of the product including pricing if anyone is interested I will mail it to them. In the message (from adv.soft@applelink.apple.com) the writer says he will send me a demo version via applelink "and via some friends" - does anyone have this demo and can I FTP it from them? I don't (yet) have applelink access. ...r
lengge@chx400.switch.ch (Thomas Lenggenhager) (02/07/91)
In article <1991Feb4.211429.4991@ucs.sfu.ca> smith@ucs.sfu.ca (Richard Smith) writes: > >I have recently been corresponding with a company in France which makes >something called TCPack. This product will take communications toolbox >compliant applications and run them over tcp/ip (sort of the opposite of >what you are talking about) with MacTCP. Has anyone experience with them >or this product? We bought TCPack and use it together with VersaTerm on top of TCP/IP. However it dosn't support multi session/multi window, since VersaTerm never heard about that :-(. In fact, TCPack is a Connection Tool for the Communications Toolbox, which sits by itself on top of MacTCP. (You get MacTCP when you buy TCPack). You can even set up an FTP connection. The first version we got last summer didn't work too well together with VersaTerm, but as I heard the problems were mainly due to the CTB and VersaTerm. This is now fixed and the newest version is stable. The same company wrote a nice Terminal Tool for the CTB, providing IBM 3270 emulation. It's called asc3270 and even knows about national character sets and has a fully configurable keyboard mapping (nice to have for people in Europe). -- =============================================================================== Thomas Lenggenhager, SWITCH, ETH-Zentrum, CH-8092 Zurich, Switzerland INET: lenggenhager@switch.ch | Tel: +41-1-261 8178 UUCP: ..!mcsun!chx400!lenggenhager | Fax: +41-1-261 8133
kdb@macaw.intercon.com (Kurt Baumann) (02/08/91)
In article <1991Feb4.211429.4991@ucs.sfu.ca>, smith@ucs.sfu.ca (Richard Smith) writes: > Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.comm > Path: intercon!uupsi!rpi!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!think.com!mintaka!mit-eddie!uw-beaver!ubc-cs!newsserver.sfu.ca!smith > From: smith@ucs.sfu.ca (Richard Smith) > Subject: Re: Repost: SLIP on MacTCP > Message-ID: <1991Feb4.211429.4991@ucs.sfu.ca> > Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada > References: <Jan.22.20.54.55.1991.26831@remus.rutgers.edu> <1991Jan31.083829.1343@urz.unibas.ch> <1991Feb4.193612.25473@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> > Distribution: inet > Date: Mon, 4 Feb 91 21:14:29 GMT > > > > I have recently been corresponding with a company in France which makes > something called TCPack. This product will take communications toolbox > compliant applications and run them over tcp/ip (sort of the opposite of > what you are talking about) with MacTCP. Has anyone experience with them > or this product? > > I have a lengthy description of the product including pricing if anyone > is interested I will mail it to them. In the message (from > adv.soft@applelink.apple.com) the writer says he will send me a demo > version via applelink "and via some friends" - does anyone have this > demo and can I FTP it from them? I don't (yet) have applelink access. > > ....r > We also sell a TCP/Tool for the CTB. Both ours and theirs pretty much work, the last time we did timings, ours was a bit faster, and it is most definatly smaller. But as I said they are both pretty servicable. There is also a straight TCP/Tool that comes with MacX. Does not allow telnet though. I think that the Frnce company is working on or has a FTP tool, we are looking into doing the samething as well. VersaTerm Pro is now shipping with a FTP tool and a telnet tool. WRQ Reflections has CTB support in the latest version. I don't know how you would go about getting a demo copy if you don't have access to AppleLink. You might ask the French company to mail you one though. Kurt Baumann InterCon Systems Corporation 703.709.9890 Creators of fine TCP/IP products 703.709.9896 FAX for the Macintosh.
time@tbomb.ice.com (Tim Endres) (02/08/91)
In article <1991Feb8.161243.27988@cshl.org>, cozza@cshl.org (Steven Cozza at Grace Computer Center) writes: > Does anybody know of a connection tool that does SLIP? I have been looking > for anything that would allow our users to connect their Macs at off-site > locations running MacX, with on-site UNIX machines. I tried TCP/Connect II > but it doesn't come with a SLIP connection tool, and KA9Q but I can't > figure out how to use it over a modem or if its even possible. So if anybody > knows of a product or shareware package or even a possible alternative (PPP) > I would appreciate any info. Thanks. Isn't this is little more complex than a CTB SLIP Tool? I mean, slip is the IP layer over a serial line. The CTB SLIP Tool would need to be a data stream (i.e., have TCP encapsulated in it) or would have to be used by the TCP Tool used for this data stream (meaning a Connection Tool talking through a Connection Tool?) or the Application Layer would have to implement the TCP, otherwise the data stream would be unreliable (i.e., not a guarenteed data stream like TCP) which is the desired end result for things like SMTP and NNTP and the sort. tim. ------------------------------------------------------------- Tim Endres | time@ice.com ICE Engineering | uupsi!ice.com!time 8840 Main Street | Voice FAX Whitmore Lake MI. 48189 | (313) 449 8288 (313) 449 9208
cozza@cshl.org (Steven Cozza at Grace Computer Center) (02/09/91)
Does anybody know of a connection tool that does SLIP? I have been looking for anything that would allow our users to connect their Macs at off-site locations running MacX, with on-site UNIX machines. I tried TCP/Connect II but it doesn't come with a SLIP connection tool, and KA9Q but I can't figure out how to use it over a modem or if its even possible. So if anybody knows of a product or shareware package or even a possible alternative (PPP) I would appreciate any info. Thanks. Steven Cozza Internet: cozza@cshl.org US Mail: Cold Spring Harbor Laboratory Bungtown Road Cold Spring Harbor New York, 11724
amanda@visix.com (Amanda Walker) (02/09/91)
They key problem here is that what everybody seems to actually want is a SLIP module for MacTCP. Unfortunately, current versions of MacTCP evidently have some timing dependencies that make them unusuable over slow links (like, say, a 2400 baud modem). If, at some point, Apple releases a newer version of MacTCP that can actually handle alternate link layers well, I suspect that we will quickly see such modules for SLIP, PPP, X.25, token ring, and any other kind of network hardware that someone could cram into a Mac. -- Amanda Walker amanda@visix.com Visix Software Inc. ...!uunet!visix!amanda -- "Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards, for it makes them soggy and hard to light." --Robert Anton Wilson
epan@jarthur.Claremont.EDU (Eric C. Pan) (02/10/91)
I am sorry, I looked into TCP/Connect II one week ago, and it had SLIP. Perhaps you are thinking of the basic package, not the complete package, or the SLIP package.
cozza@cshl.org (Steven Cozza at Grace Computer Center) (02/11/91)
In article <10739@jarthur.Claremont.EDU> epan@jarthur.Claremont.EDU (Eric C. Pan) writes: > > I am sorry, I looked into TCP/Connect II one week ago, and it had SLIP. >Perhaps you are thinking of the basic package, not the complete package, or > the SLIP package. Yes. TCP/Connect has a SLIP implementation, but it works only with those protocols built into TCP/Connect like telnet, ftp, and netnews. Other programs are unable to use the SLIP connection, because it's not designed for that. I would hope that one day (soon) InterCon would come out with a true SLIP driver like Ethertalk, that other programs could use. I realize that this is difficult to do, but I think that it is something needed by more people than just myself. Also I'm not particular about SLIP, if PPP or some other mechanism were available I would gladly use it. Steven Cozza Internet: cozza@cshl.org US Mail: Cold Spring Harbor Laboratory Bungtown Road Cold Spring Harbor New York, 11724
amanda@visix.com (Amanda Walker) (02/12/91)
In article <1991Feb10.223033.11785@cshl.org> cozza@cshl.org (Steven Cozza at Grace Computer Center) writes: >I would hope that one day (soon) InterCon would come out with a true >SLIP driver like Ethertalk, that other programs could use. I realize that >this is difficult to do, but I think that it is something needed by more >people than just myself. Well, I can quite confidently say that InterCon feels this way too (at least, they did when I worked for them :)), but they can't really fix bugs in MacTCP, which is why they only have SLIP for their standalone version. There's a similar situation with SMNP--MacTCP won't let them do a real implementation. Bug Apple :). -- Amanda Walker amanda@visix.com Visix Software Inc. ...!uunet!visix!amanda -- X Windows: It could be worse, but it'll take time...
eer36024@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Erik Reuter) (02/12/91)
There seem to be a lot of people interested in getting a MacTCP/SLIP driver going (I am one of them). However, there don't seem to be any people interested in writing such a thing. (I mean, writing a separate program that appears like MacTCP, but supports SLIP, since it is apparently not possible at this time to write a SLIP module for MacTCP itself). Therefore, a question: how difficult would it be to hack together a MacTCP/SLIP from the source code to the SLIP modified version of NCSA Telnet? (Forgive me if this is a stupid question, I know little about UNIX programming and protocols, heck, I can't even program very well on my Mac!). Shouldn't most of the needed code for TCP and SLIP be already written in Telnet? Anyone up to the task? Just wondering. -- Erik Reuter, e-reuter@uiuc.edu, uunet!uiucuxc!uiuc.edu!e-reuter, 217-367-1721
gavin@ramsay.UUCP (Gavin Eadie) (02/12/91)
In article <1991Feb11.182843.13618@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>, eer36024@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Erik Reuter) writes: > There seem to be a lot of people interested in getting a MacTCP/SLIP driver > going (I am one of them). However, there don't seem to be any people > interested in writing such a thing. (I mean, writing a separate program > that appears like MacTCP, but supports SLIP, since it is apparently not > possible at this time to write a SLIP module for MacTCP itself). In fact MacTCP does support a mechanism for SLIP to work. The problem is that it was not engineered for slow links. This causes a problem with SLIP because packets requesting an internet address are fired off by MacTCP faster than a 9600 bps line can get rid of the bits ... Note that a less popular variation on SLIP (called SLFP, developed at MIT) doesn't poll for an internet address and so works fine over 2400 bps links using MacTCP. I can you from personal experience that IP at 2400 bps is more painful than most people could cope with ... > Therefore, a question: how difficult would it be to hack together a > MacTCP/SLIP from the source code to the SLIP modified version of NCSA Telnet? Apple, in the form of the MacTCP engineer at least, is aware of the need for alternate LAPs and of the deficiency in the current one. MacTCP is being enhanced, even as we speak, for System 7.0 compatibility and to improve various other characteristics and capabilities. You might reasonably suppose that an enhancement in the IP/LAP interface is also in the works. As a result of this, presumed, improvement to MacTCP being available in the same general timeframe as System 7.0, I think it reasonable to also presume solutions to the SLIP and PPP dilemmas to be available shortly thereafter. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Gavin Eadie Ramsay Consulting 507 Second Street (313) 665-2819 Ann Arbor, MI 48103
amanda@visix.com (Amanda Walker) (02/12/91)
In article <1991Feb11.182843.13618@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> eer36024@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Erik Reuter) writes: >Therefore, a question: how difficult would it be to hack together a >MacTCP/SLIP from the source code to the SLIP modified version of NCSA Telnet? Oh, I'd say 6-10 months worth of work, for someone who (a) worked on it full time, and (b) already deeply understood MacTCP and the NCSA TCP/IP code. This doesn't include beta testing time. The biggest problems are that the APIs for MacTCP and the NCSA TCP/IP kernel are not very much alike, and that MacTCP needs to do its timing and TCP processing at interrupt time, rather than at GetNextEvent time like the NCSA code. This is just a guess off the top of my head, as someone who does know both MacTCP and the NCSA code quite well. It's certainly possible, but I doubt it would be worth doing unless a company or university paid for the development time. There's also the chance that Apple will fix MacTCP in the meantime, thus allowing someone else to do a SLIP module for it in a month or so. Quite a gamble. What might (and I stress *might*) be easier is to build a giant CTB connection tool for SLIP that itself used the NCSA code. This is in some senses a smaller problem, but still not a project to sneeze at, if only because the existing MacX TCP connection tool is completely undocumented. This could make its behavior hard to duplicate. Bugging Apple is probably a more worthwhile use of your time and effort :). -- Amanda Walker amanda@visix.com Visix Software Inc. ...!uunet!visix!amanda -- "Things are more like they are now than they ever were before." --Dwight D. Eisenhower
time@ice.com (02/12/91)
In article <1991Feb11.182843.13618@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>, eer36024@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Erik Reuter) writes: > Therefore, a question: how difficult would it be to hack together a > MacTCP/SLIP from the source code to the SLIP modified version of NCSA Telnet? > (Forgive me if this is a stupid question, I know little about UNIX > programming and protocols, heck, I can't even program very well on my Mac!). > Shouldn't most of the needed code for TCP and SLIP be already written in > Telnet? Anyone up to the task? AND If this gets done PLEASE make it a CTB Tool (feasible?). tim. ------------------------------------------------------------- Tim Endres | time@ice.com ICE Engineering | uupsi!ice.com!time 8840 Main Street | Voice FAX Whitmore Lake MI. 48189 | (313) 449 8288 (313) 449 9208
gavin@ramsay.UUCP (Gavin Eadie) (02/12/91)
In article <1CE00001.eyqs2e@tbomb.ice.com>, tbomb!time (Tim Endres) writes: > > In article <1991Feb11.182843.13618@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>, eer36024@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Erik Reuter) writes: > > Therefore, a question: how difficult would it be to hack together a > > MacTCP/SLIP from the source code to the SLIP modified version of NCSA Telnet? > > AND If this gets done PLEASE make it a CTB Tool (feasible?). > > tim. Ideally, the CTB Tool would be at the other end of the protocol stack -- there are two Telnet tools that I know of that can be used as TCP connection tools (TCPack and VersaTerm) and a third (comes with MacX) which is only a TCP tool. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Gavin Eadie Ramsay Consulting 507 Second Street (313) 665-2819 Ann Arbor, MI 48103
kdb@macaw.intercon.com (Kurt Baumann) (02/13/91)
In article <1991Feb8.161243.27988@cshl.org>, cozza@cshl.org (Steven Cozza at Grace Computer Center) writes: > I tried TCP/Connect II > but it doesn't come with a SLIP connection tool, and KA9Q but I can't > figure out how to use it over a modem or if its even possible. Excuse me? Our package comes with SLIP built into it. We don't have a SLIP tool yet, we do have a TCP Tool that we sell seperatly. What are you trying to do with SLIP anyway? Give tech support here a call and they can help you out. Kurt Baumann InterCon Systems Corporation 703.709.9890 Creators of fine TCP/IP products 703.709.9896 FAX for the Macintosh.
kdb@macaw.intercon.com (Kurt Baumann) (02/13/91)
In article <1991Feb10.223033.11785@cshl.org>, cozza@cshl.org (Steven Cozza at Grace Computer Center) writes: > I would hope that one day (soon) InterCon would come out with a true > SLIP driver like Ethertalk, that other programs could use. I realize that Argh! It's not so much us, as it is Apple at this point. But rest assured all parties are working at getting this taken care of. Sigh. Sometimes the wheel just doesn't turn fast enough. Kurt Baumann InterCon Systems Corporation 703.709.9890 Creators of fine TCP/IP products 703.709.9896 FAX for the Macintosh.