sanders@parc.xerox.com (Rex Sanders) (02/13/91)
This idea might be crazy, but maybe someone has tried. Rather than waiting forever for MacTCP+SLIP, what about running MacTCP over dialup AppleTalk? By dialup AppleTalk, I'm talking about products like Shiva NetModem, Farallon Liason, Hayes Interbridge, etc., with Shiva FastPath or Cayman GatorBox doing AppleTalk-TCP/IP routing (see diagram below). Can you get acceptable performance for MacX, Eudora, or NCSA Telnet with this scheme? Is 2400 baud uselessly slow? Is 9600 baud usable? The setup I have in mind is something like: MacX---MacTCP---AppleTalk---Shiva NetModem # # Telephone line # Shiva FastPath---AppleTalk---Shiva NetModem $ $ Ethernet TCP/IP $ Sun Server It's not elegant, but perhaps better than nothing. -- Rex Sanders sanders.parc@xerox.com
garyf@headroom.ncsa.uiuc.edu (Gary Faulkner) (02/13/91)
In article <1991Feb13.052728.22533@parc.xerox.com>, sanders@parc.xerox.com (Rex Sanders) writes: Has anyone tried this configuration?? > MacX---MacTCP---AppleTalk---Shiva NetModem > # > # Telephone line > # > Shiva FastPath---AppleTalk---Shiva NetModem > $ > $ Ethernet TCP/IP > $ > Sun Server > -- Gary Faulkner National Center for Supercomputing Applications - University of Illinois Internet: garyf@ncsa.uiuc.edu Disclaimer: I've only stated my opinion, not anyone elses.
mandel@vax.anes.tulane.edu (Jeff E Mandel MD MS) (02/14/91)
In article <1991Feb13.052728.22533@parc.xerox.com> sanders@parc.xerox.com (Rex Sanders) writes: >This idea might be crazy, but maybe someone has tried. > >Rather than waiting forever for MacTCP+SLIP, what about running MacTCP >over dialup AppleTalk? > >By dialup AppleTalk, I'm talking about products like Shiva NetModem, >Farallon Liason, Hayes Interbridge, etc., with Shiva FastPath or >Cayman GatorBox doing AppleTalk-TCP/IP routing (see diagram below). > >Can you get acceptable performance for MacX, Eudora, or NCSA Telnet >with this scheme? > >Is 2400 baud uselessly slow? Is 9600 baud usable? > >The setup I have in mind is something like: > > MacX---MacTCP---AppleTalk---Shiva NetModem > # > # Telephone line > # >Shiva FastPath---AppleTalk---Shiva NetModem > $ > $ Ethernet TCP/IP > $ >Sun Server > I have used such a setup with Telebit Trailblazers and a Dataspace Telenode, and it is bareley usable. Since most of what I want from home is mail and news, and I have a VAX, I just use the VMS MAIL and RPI's news client, but it doesn't diminish my ineterst in SLIP, PPP, etc. The issue no one has addressed is the setting where you want 8 moems hanging off a terminal server, and want the option of dialing in for LAT, telnet, or network access. I have talked to a number of server manufacturers, and there seems little interest in putting async Appletalk into a terminal server. Thus, SLIP or PPP seems the more likely option. I suspect that this will be a relatively small part of the market, but as more programs that use networks incorporate support for MacTCP, it will become increasingly attractive to have a multiline SLIP server, especially in multivendor environments. Jeff E Mandel MD MS Asst Professor of Anesthesiology Tulane University School of Medicine New Orleans, LA
jqj@duff.uoregon.edu (JQ Johnson) (02/14/91)
Like Jeff Mandel, we have been experimenting with offering dialup Appletalk using Shiva NetModem/NetSerial sorts of things. Some comments: MacX---MacTCP---AppleTalk---Shiva NetModem > # > # Telephone line > # >Shiva FastPath---AppleTalk---Shiva NetModem > $ > $ Ethernet TCP/IP > $ >Sun Server I don't believe this configuration works. A NetModem is not a half-router. To do this, you need a Shiva TeleBridge or equivalent at each end. What does work is: app/MacTCP/Shiva Dial-In software--any modem # # Shiva FastPath---AppleTalk---Shiva NetModem (or NetSerial+random modem) $ $ Ethernet Sun server. I've run a number of MacTCP applications in such a mode both at 2400b and at 9600b. Among the gotchas: 1/ the Shiva software takes over (redirects) the printer port on the Mac, so it isn't possible to print to a local Imagewriter or Appletalk Laserwriter while Dial-In is active. 2/ the Shiva Dial-In software is quite fragile, and their tech support for it seems nonexistent. It is easy to bomb or hang it. 3/ MacTCP 1.0.1 is fairly fragile, and again is easy to bomb. 4/ We haven't been successful in getting it to work reliably with MNP4, MNP5, or V.42 addons, just with V.22bis and simple V.32. Among the things that are known not to work right are: - disconnecting the dial-in link to return to the builtin localtalk leaves the modem port in a strange state, and Comm Toolbox applications can't use it until it is reset. - after running a MacTCP application, disconnecting the dial-in link to return to builtin localtalk, then reconnecting causes a crash. Does not happen unless you have run a MacTCP app. - SU Mac/IP: directory listings in the Mac ftp client cause my Mac to hang. - the setup is mostly incompatible with Ethertalk installed on the Mac. I recommend that anyone who tries the configuration plan on restarting his or her Mac each time he shuts down the dial-in connection. And plan on keeping a spare floppy with your System Folder around, since we believe we have seen a number of cases of smashed system files. On the other hand, Eudora, HyperFTP, TechMail, TechInfo, SU Mac/IP telnet, and NCSA/BYU Telnet seem to work ok. I even was able to telnet to my Sun while having its filesystems mounted using Appleshare talking to a CAP server! Telnet response time is VERY jerky even at 9600b, but not too bad in line-at-a-time mode since thruput is adequate (about 800B/s). Eudora file transfers are bearable (for some people) even at 2400b. We'll have more data on how well this all works in the next few weeks. Meanwhile, we sould be VERY interested in other people's experiences. -- JQ Johnson Director of Network Services Internet: jqj@oregon.uoregon.edu University of Oregon voice: (503) 346-4394 250E Computing Center BITNET: jqj@oregon Eugene, OR 97403-1212 fax: (503) 346-4397
dhoyman@vms.macc.wisc.edu (02/15/91)
In article <1991Feb13.052728.22533@parc.xerox.com>, sanders@parc.xerox.com (Rex Sanders) writes... > >By dialup AppleTalk, I'm talking about products like Shiva NetModem, >Farallon Liason, Hayes Interbridge, etc., with Shiva FastPath or >Cayman GatorBox doing AppleTalk-TCP/IP routing (see diagram below). > >Can you get acceptable performance for MacX, Eudora, or NCSA Telnet >with this scheme? > >Is 2400 baud uselessly slow? Is 9600 baud usable? > I have been trying to use the Shiva dial-in access at 2400 and then do Telnet. But, so far I have only gotten "Host not responding" errors. I believe that this is due to MacTCP timing out, but am not sure. I posted a message about this last week, but no one has been able to tell me if one can change MacTCP timeeout parameters. > >-- Rex Sanders > sanders.parc@xerox.com Dirk Herr-Hoyman UW-Madison, Dept. of Family Medicine and Practice dhoyman@fammed.wisc.edu 608-262-6368