kevinh@cmi.com (Kevin Hegg) (03/15/91)
I am developing a networked application and considering whether to use the Comm Toolbox or not. I would like to be able to support ADSP or TCP/IP. I have the 1.0 documentation, but it doesn't say anything about the TCPtool. Is there any documentation on the TCPtool other than whats in the MacX documentation? Are there any known problems when developing an application to use the TCPtool? Kevin Hegg, EDS Corp - Center for Machine Intelligence 2001 Commonwealth Blvd., Ann Arbor, Michigan 48105 Phone: (313) 995-0900 Internet: kevinh@cmi.com Applelink: D5990
dorner@pequod.cso.uiuc.edu (Steve Dorner) (03/15/91)
In article <9263@etsu.CMI.COM> kevinh@cmi.com (Kevin Hegg) writes: >I am developing a networked application and considering whether to use the >Comm Toolbox or not. I would like to be able to support ADSP or TCP/IP. I would suggest you make your application switchable between MacTCP and the Comm Toolbox. This will save your MacTCP users from having to deal with the Comm Toolbox until a few more kinks get ironed out. -- Steve Dorner, U of Illinois Computing Services Office Internet: s-dorner@uiuc.edu UUCP: uunet!uiucuxc!uiuc.edu!s-dorner
bschmidt@bnr.ca (Ben Schmidt (BNR)) (03/15/91)
In article <9263@etsu.CMI.COM> kevinh@cmi.com (Kevin Hegg) writes: > I am developing a networked application and considering whether to use > the Comm Toolbox or not. I would like to be able to support ADSP or TCP/IP. > I have the 1.0 documentation, but it doesn't say anything about the > TCPtool. Is there any documentation on the TCPtool other than whats in the > MacX documentation? Are there any known problems when developing an > application to use the TCPtool? Kevin, the response I've always got from Apple is that their TCPTool is intended *only* for MacX. If you want to use the CTB *and* MacTCP, you're supposed to go 3rd party, for the interconnection tool. That's good for hardworking developers like InterCon or ASC. But it's disappointing if you were expecting an Apple-supplied solution to interconnect Apple's CTB with Apple's MacTCP driver. Ben Schmidt Information Technology, Bell-Northern Research bschmidt@bnr.ca FAX:(613) 763-3283 /* My opinions, not BNR's */
dorner@pequod.cso.uiuc.edu (Steve Dorner) (03/16/91)
>Thanks for the response. Do you have any specific stories about the >"kinks" in Comm Toolbox. I knew this was coming. Let me say up front that I think the Comm Toolbox is an interesting attempt to solve a hard problem. I don't think the people who are working on it are fools or idiots; I just don't think they've quite gotten there yet. Let me also say that my primary experience with the Comm Toolbox involves the Apple Modem Tool, which is not terribly successful. It's hard for me to know which bugs are really AMT bugs, and which are really CTB bugs. Perhaps little of this would apply to a TCP connection tool. 1. The Apple Modem Tool misunderstands a wide variety of modems. Sometimes this results in crashes, sometimes in refusal to make connections. Hidden features often (but not always) allow this to be rectified. These features are not documented. 2. The CTB allows you to choose whether it should report errors, or allow your program to do so. Unfortunately, one is never sure just WHICH errors the CTB will report, and which it will not. Furthermore, some tools (AMT again) will report status to the user (dialing, retrying, etc.). Turning off CTB error reporting turns off these helpful status messages, too. You can't say, "give the user status messages but not error messages". This is one symptom of a broader problem; lack of fine control over what goes on. You're pretty much stuck with how the tools behave. 3. The AMT (again) behaves differently when used synchronously or asynchronously on some operations. I've finally had to go to synchronous opens and closes to avoid problems with some modems. Apple can't reproduce the problem (they probably don't have the right modem to do so). 4. MacTCP has SendWDS, which has spoiled me forever. (It allows you to send an array of pointers to MacTCP, and have the whole bundle sent; very efficient.) Yes, you could duplicate the behavior with my own subroutines, but then you lose efficiency. (Would whoever put the wds stuff in MacTCP wander around Apple and convince people to add them to the File manager and the CTB? Thank you.) 5. The CTB documentation is very, very superficial. It is possible that I could fix or work around some problems, if I knew a little more about the guts of the CTB and its tools. Unfortunately, the dox are very short on guts (but they have lots of really nice pictures). For example, you're encouraged to call CMIdle when you have a connection open; should you call it when you have an asynch open pending? The dox are silent. Now, an argument could be made that some of these things are FEATURES; that my program doesn't need to know or control the gory details, and that the whole point of the CTB is to present simple, abstract connections to applications, and hide all the messy stuff inside. That would be just fine if it worked. It currently does NOT. Finally, it's possible that I'm using the darn thing wrong. I don't know how that could be, but I've made mistakes once or twice before. However, if it's my fault, then I'm not happy with the documentation, cause I sure can't figure out what I'm doing wrong. In summary, I think it's pretty easy to do a nice, efficient, robust connection with MacTCP. It's much harder with the CTB (at least where some tools are concerned). I think the extra speed and stability makes it worth going the extra mile for MacTCP users. -- Steve Dorner, U of Illinois Computing Services Office Internet: s-dorner@uiuc.edu UUCP: uunet!uiucuxc!uiuc.edu!s-dorner
francis@zaphod.uchicago.edu (03/17/91)
In article <1991Mar15.133106.10588@bwdls61.bnr.ca> bschmidt@bnr.ca (Ben Schmidt (BNR)) writes: Kevin, the response I've always got from Apple is that their TCPTool is intended *only* for MacX. If you want to use the CTB *and* MacTCP, you're supposed to go 3rd party, for the interconnection tool. That's good for Do you know of any 3rd-party outfit that's done this? -- /============================================================================\ | Francis Stracke | My opinions are my own. I don't steal them.| | Department of Mathematics |=============================================| | University of Chicago | Until you stalk and overrun, | | francis@zaphod.uchicago.edu | you can't devour anyone. -- Hobbes | \============================================================================/
han@Apple.COM (Byron Han) (03/21/91)
In article <9288@etsu.CMI.COM> kevinh@cmi.com (Kevin Hegg) writes: >In article <19357@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> dorner@pequod.cso.uiuc.edu (Steve >Dorner) writes: >> I would suggest you make your application switchable between MacTCP >> and the Comm Toolbox. This will save your MacTCP users from having to >> deal with the Comm Toolbox until a few more kinks get ironed out. > I would strongly urge you to get some info on the TCP/IP connection tools that different folks put out (like the advanced software concepts TCPack tool) CommToolbox is not perfect - it is an evolving product that is constantly being improved. But it does provide a solid developer base platform for different applications to be built upon - like MacX, MacTerminal, Versaterm, PacerTerm, the terminal tools (TTY, VT102, VT320, IBM 3278), file transfer tools (Text, XMODEM, KERMIT, ZMODEM), connection tools (Serial, Modem, ADSP, LAT, DECNet, SNA, X.25, TCP/IP) -- Byron Han, CommToolbox Emir Changing the world, one connection at a time Apple Computer, Inc. -------------------------------------------- 20525 Mariani Ave, MS: 35CP Internet: han@apple.COM Cupertino, CA 95014 UUCP:{sun,voder,nsc,decwrl}!apple!han ATTnet: 408-974-6450 Applelink:HAN1 HAN1@applelink.apple.COM