henry@chinet.chi.il.us (Henry C. Schmitt) (05/06/90)
The Apple/DEC announcements earlier next week said that the
"venerable" MacTerminal is being upgraded to 3.0. Does anybody know
what new features have been added? Specifically does it emulate any
of the more advanced terminals like the VT3xx series?
--
H3nry C. Schmitt | CompuServe: 72275,1456 (Rarely)
| GEnie: H.Schmitt (Occasionally)
Royal Inn of Yoruba | UUCP: Henry@chinet.chi.il.us (Best Bet)jdevoto@Apple.COM (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto) (05/08/90)
In article <1990May6.013959.8262@chinet.chi.il.us> henry@chinet.chi.il.us (Henry C. Schmitt) writes: >The Apple/DEC announcements earlier next week said that the >"venerable" MacTerminal is being upgraded to 3.0. Does anybody know >what new features have been added? Specifically does it emulate any >of the more advanced terminals like the VT3xx series? MacTerminal 3.0 will be fully compatible with the Communications Toolbox, which means that you will be able to use any connection, terminal, and file transfer tools developed by Apple or other developers. A DEC VT320 terminal tool is one of those under development. -- ========= jeanne a. e. devoto ======================================== jdevoto@apple.com | You may not distribute this article under a jdevoto@well.sf.ca.us | compilation copyright without my permission. ______________________________________________________________________ Apple Computer and I are not authorized | CI$: 72411,165 to speak for each other. | AppleLink: SQA.TEST
dittman@skbat.csc.ti.com (Eric Dittman) (09/19/90)
I keep seeing references to MacTerminal 3.0. Has 3.0 been released yet?
And if so, how does an owner of MacTerminal 2.x upgrade?
Thanks,
Eric Dittman
Texas Instruments - Component Test Facility
dittman@skitzo.csc.ti.com
dittman@skbat.csc.ti.com
Disclaimer: I don't speak for Texas Instruments or the Component Test
Facility. I don't even speak for myself.an12280@mdaali.cancer.utexas.edu (David Gutierrez) (09/19/90)
In article <131.26f65ab0@skbat.csc.ti.com> dittman@skbat.csc.ti.com (Eric Dittman) writes: > I keep seeing references to MacTerminal 3.0. Has 3.0 been released yet? > And if so, how does an owner of MacTerminal 2.x upgrade? MacTerminal 3.0 is out now - or at least it's on my price list. I thought I read somewhere that you could upgrade the software only for free. Good luck trying to find someone to give it to you. I just decided to order a new package, although I'll probably never look at the manuals. David Gutierrez an12280@mdaali.cancer.utexas.edu "Only fools are positive." - Moe Howard
han@Apple.COM (Byron Han, scapegoat) (09/20/90)
In article <131.26f65ab0@skbat.csc.ti.com> dittman@skbat.csc.ti.com (Eric Dittman) writes: >I keep seeing references to MacTerminal 3.0. Has 3.0 been released yet? >And if so, how does an owner of MacTerminal 2.x upgrade? > It should be hitting dealer shelves imminently as the first shrink wrapped boxes are being made even as you read this and I type this... If you purchased your copy of MacTerminal before May 1, 1990 (I think), the upgrade cost is $65 (I think). If you purchased your copy of MacTerminal after the magic cut off date, you get the upgrade for free. I think you have to send in for the upgrade - it is not done by the dealer. You cannot just "upgrade the disks" - the manuals describe all the neat nifty features in the CommToolbox environment... (shameless plug of product here) Hope this helps! Byron Han PTO ICE This is not an official Apple statement or position nor should it be construed as such. This is not an official Apple upgrade policy statement, merely my understanding to the best of my (poor) recollection...
drg@mdaali.cancer.utexas.edu (David Gutierrez) (10/24/90)
I just got MacTerminal 3.0. It looks nice, but I'm having a few of problems that may make me (and everyone else here) stay with the old version. One of my favorite features in MacTerminal is the ability to option-click on the screen and have the cursor go to that location. I can't find any way to make that work in MacTerminal 3.0; neither can I find any references to it in any portion of the manual. Am I doing something wrong, or did they actually remove this capability? My second problem is that no matter how many times I save my settings or create a new settings document, MacTerminal 3.0 won't remember that I'm at 19,200 baud (a direct wire connected to the modem port). It keeps dropping down to 9600. This may have something to do with the modem attached to a Shiva NetSerial on our network. The Shiva INIT insists on accessing the modem whenever a serial port is opened. I'd prefer that this was done only on demand, but that's neither here nor there. The last problem I have is that the MacTerminal 3.0 modem tool refuses to recognize the existence of the aforementioned modem attached to the NetSerial. Is there another tool I need for this purpose? OK, "just one last" gripe - not related to performance. The manual MacTerminal 3.0 comes in an attractive ring binder. Unfortuneately, the one I got has the problem where the rings don't meet each other, so that every time I turn a page, it slips out of the rings and/or tears a page. How about a little quality control, Apple/Claris/whoever? David Gutierrez drg@mdaali.cancer.utexas.edu "Only fools are positive." - Moe Howard
rpcfod@uarthur.UUCP (Robert Patt-Corner) (10/25/90)
I do like the package, but having said that, the *worst* omission is the absence of print passthrough in my opinion. Our users are all over me. Re your questions: 1. Clicking for cursor position does not work. That's a pretty unique and interesting feature. I didn't know the old one had it. 2. The problem with serial tool being unable to hold a baud rate is a problem with the Shiva software. I spoke with them and they were pretty unrepentent, treating the comm toolbox as some sort of unimportant beta software they'd get around to being compatable with in their next release. No hint of an engineering special in the works. I was frankly disappointed. 3. Far as I can tell, the Apple Modem tool doesn't work with our Hayes compatible Practical Peripherals modems either ... or it's another face of the Shiva driver problem. There's another known bug having to do with screen drawing -- try this: a. Run the VAX TPU editor (Edit/TPU) on a file b. Mark and cut a passage c. Move your cursor somewhere d. Paste the passage e. Hit the UpArrow Wheee. Watch a big illusory blank area open in your screen. Having said all this, I think Macterminal is the deal of the year -- just wish they'd fix the print passthru!!
owen@raven.phys.washington.edu (Russell Owen) (10/26/90)
If you want to be able to move the mouse to a given location by pointing and clicking, or you want proper VT100 emulation, you might try VersaTerm. The mouse cursor control is flexible (it can send arrow key sequences, emacs sequences, or one other kind). I've never seen its VT100 emulation get confused by a VAX (and that says a lot -- a VAX really challenges VT100 emulators). VersaTerm costs about $100, and included VT100, VT220, and Tek 4014 (bitmapped graphics) emulation. It supports the comm. toolbox. It's one of the best programs I've seen, and has great support. Sorry if I got carried away. If anybody has used both recent versions of MacTerminal and VersaTerm, I'd love to see a comparison. Russell Owen owen@raven.phys.washington.edu Astronomy Dept. FM-20 University of Washington Seattle, WA 98195
rneville@Apple.COM (Robert Neville) (10/26/90)
drg@mdaali.cancer.utexas.edu (David Gutierrez) writes: >I just got MacTerminal 3.0. It looks nice, but I'm having a few of >problems that may make me (and everyone else here) stay with the old >version. >One of my favorite features in MacTerminal is the ability to option-click >on the screen and have the cursor go to that location. I can't find any >way to make that work in MacTerminal 3.0; neither can I find any >references to it in any portion of the manual. Am I doing something wrong, >or did they actually remove this capability? Because MT 3.0 uses terminal tools the cursor handling is done by that Tool in the content protion of the screen. The developers chose to keep similar behaviour in the cache. Prior versions were all under program control and thus could allow cursor positioning. You gained some flexiblity but lost a feature. >My second problem is that no matter how many times I save my settings or >create a new settings document, MacTerminal 3.0 won't remember that I'm at >19,200 baud (a direct wire connected to the modem port). It keeps dropping >down to 9600. This may have something to do with the modem attached to a >Shiva NetSerial on our network. The Shiva INIT insists on accessing the >modem whenever a serial port is opened. I'd prefer that this was done only >on demand, but that's neither here nor there. The Apple Modem Tool does not support Net Modems. It is puzzling why it is not remembering your settings and we will look into this. Try using the Serial Tool instead. >The last problem I have is that the MacTerminal 3.0 modem tool refuses to >recognize the existence of the aforementioned modem attached to the >NetSerial. Is there another tool I need for this purpose? >OK, "just one last" gripe - not related to performance. The manual MacTerminal 3.0 comes in an attractive ring binder. Unfortuneately, the one I got has the problem where the rings don't meet each other, so that every time I turn a page, it slips out of the rings and/or tears a page. How about a little quality control, Apple/Claris/whoever? >David Gutierrez >drg@mdaali.cancer.utexas.edu >"Only fools are positive." - Moe Howard -- Disclaimers are not legally valid. My company can still fire me, and they can always be sued. ********************************************************************** * Rob Neville rneville@.apple.com * * AppleLink NEVILLE * * Compuserve 76074,2262 * **********************************************************************
drg@mdaali.cancer.utexas.edu (David Gutierrez) (10/26/90)
In article <46001@apple.Apple.COM> rneville@Apple.COM (Robert Neville) writes: > >One of my favorite features in MacTerminal is the ability to option-click > >on the screen and have the cursor go to that location. > > Because MT 3.0 uses terminal tools the cursor handling is done by that Tool > in the content protion of the screen. The developers chose to keep similar > behaviour in the cache. Prior versions were all under program control and > thus could allow cursor positioning. You gained some flexiblity but lost > a feature. This is unfortunate, since I'm using VT100 emulation through a protocol converter to access an IBM mainframe, where you have to move the cursor all over the screen, not just the command line. I'll just look at this as another incentive to finish porting our 2000-subroutine libraries to the Mac so that I can switch my development to MPW. I never like the IBM's file system anyway. David Gutierrez drg@mdaali.cancer.utexas.edu "Only fools are positive." - Moe Howard
jimb@silvlis.com (Jim Budler) (10/26/90)
In article <18@uarthur.UUCP> rpcfod@uarthur.UUCP (Robert Patt-Corner) writes: >There's another known bug having to do with screen drawing -- try this: >a. Run the VAX TPU editor (Edit/TPU) on a file >b. Mark and cut a passage >c. Move your cursor somewhere >d. Paste the passage >e. Hit the UpArrow >Wheee. Watch a big illusory blank area open in your screen. This is not unique to MacTerminal by any means. I've encountered it with other terminal programs also. Does anyone know what feature of vt emulation causes it? jim -- __ __ / o / Jim Budler jimb@silvlis.com | Proud / / /\/\ /__ Silvar-Lisco, Inc. +1.408.991.6115 | MacIIsi /__/ / / / /__/ 703 E. Evelyn Ave. Sunnyvale, Ca. 94086 | owner
rneville@Apple.COM (Robert Neville) (10/27/90)
owen@raven.phys.washington.edu (Russell Owen) writes: >If you want to be able to move the mouse to a given location by pointing >and clicking, or you want proper VT100 emulation, you might try VersaTerm. >The mouse cursor control is flexible (it can send arrow key sequences, >emacs sequences, or one other kind). I've never seen its VT100 emulation >get confused by a VAX (and that says a lot -- a VAX really challenges >VT100 emulators). >VersaTerm costs about $100, and included VT100, VT220, and Tek 4014 >(bitmapped graphics) emulation. It supports the comm. toolbox. >It's one of the best programs I've seen, and has great support. >Sorry if I got carried away. If anybody has used both recent versions of >MacTerminal and VersaTerm, I'd love to see a comparison. There are a few differences between the CTB versions of MacTerminal and VersaTerm. VersaTerm does not require the CTB, MacTerminal does. VersaTerm does not use the Terminal Manager and thus has it's own different Terminal Emulation, MacTerminal uses the Terminal Manager and so will allow seemless use of new Terminal Tools as tey are developed. VersaTerm is single session, MacTerminal is multi-session. These are the rough differences that I have determined and can remember right now. >Russell Owen >owen@raven.phys.washington.edu >Astronomy Dept. FM-20 >University of Washington >Seattle, WA 98195 -- Disclaimers are not legally valid. My company can still fire me, and they can always be sued. ********************************************************************** * Rob Neville rneville@apple.com * * AppleLink NEVILLE * * Compuserve 76074,2262 * **********************************************************************
rpcfod@uarthur.UUCP (Robert Patt-Corner) (10/27/90)
Per your request for a comparison, we have used both (Macterminal 3.0 and Versaterm with Comm TBX. Versaterm has a critical feature omitted from Macterminal -- print passthrough. There is no practical way to print to an apple printer with Macterminal, the "select and print selection" method is clumsy and incredibly ugly. It is the product's main drawback and could be a killer if not remedied soon. Otherwise, MacTerminal is far simpler, which could be a virtue. It seems to have, with the aforementioned gross omission, "just the right" set of features for the 90 per cent of non-programmer users. Versaterm is somewhat complex and confusing for the user, particularly the naive user. It has many more features. Price ... Macterminal is practically free as a part of LanWorks. It makes for a very smooth package. But considered singly as a program, the two are about the same price. I'd recommend MacTerminal for sites that can use the other portions of LANWorks (you get the LAT tool, worth $300 in itself). Versaterm or Mac220Whatever for the one-off purchase or the programmer. No commercial interests, just a user.
jerryg@Apple.COM (Jerry Godes) (10/27/90)
In article <1990Oct26.160453.6496@silvlis.com> jimb@silvlis.com (Jim Budler) writes: >In article <18@uarthur.UUCP> rpcfod@uarthur.UUCP (Robert Patt-Corner) writes: > >>There's another known bug having to do with screen drawing -- try this: > >>a. Run the VAX TPU editor (Edit/TPU) on a file >>b. Mark and cut a passage >>c. Move your cursor somewhere >>d. Paste the passage >>e. Hit the UpArrow > >>Wheee. Watch a big illusory blank area open in your screen. > >This is not unique to MacTerminal by any means. I've encountered it >with other terminal programs also. > >Does anyone know what feature of vt emulation causes it? > Yup - I just tracked down the problem for the VT100 and VT320 tools. The problem has to do with TPU's bizarre method of moving the cursor. When the user does a cut, TPU sets a scroll margin and then scrolls the cut lines off of the display. However, when finished with the cut, it does not reset the margin. When you press the up arrow, normally, TPU generates a Reverse Index. However, when it reaches the top of the scroll margin, it generates a direct cursor position command. Once above the margin, it reverts to generating Reverse Indeces. The problem with the tool is the handling the RI when above the scroll margin. Of course, I don't have an easy solution (other than generating a refresh after each cut). What other Terminal emulators exhibit this behavior? (Just for my own interest). Jerry
ALC@psuvm.psu.edu (10/29/90)
In article <18@uarthur.UUCP>, rpcfod@uarthur.UUCP (Robert Patt-Corner) says: > Stuff deleted about Macterminal 3.0 >There's another known bug having to do with screen drawing -- try this: > >a. Run the VAX TPU editor (Edit/TPU) on a file >b. Mark and cut a passage >c. Move your cursor somewhere >d. Paste the passage >e. Hit the UpArrow > >Wheee. Watch a big illusory blank area open in your screen. > This is not a problem with MacTerminal. We have the exact same trouble when we connect to the VAX using our TCP/IP programs (Mac or MSDOS) and then use any VAX editor under VMS 4.5. There is something wrong with the way they handle scroll regions. >Having said all this, I think Macterminal is the deal of the year -- >just wish they'd fix the print passthru!! I saw something about the passthru problem here a while back? Something from Apple that indicated they were not going to support passthru because they would need to drive the printer port directly (low level) and that had become verboten to Apple engineering.
leonardr@svc.portal.com (Leonard Rosenthol) (10/30/90)
In article <18@uarthur.UUCP>, rpcfod@uarthur.UUCP (Robert Patt-Corner) writes: > > I do like the package, but having said that, the *worst* omission is > the absence of print passthrough in my opinion. Our users are all > over me. > Just so you know, the problem here is NOT MacTerminal but REALLY the Macintosh Communications Toolbox. The CTB Terminal Manager does not provide this capability (though I guess it could be made to) - but even worse is that there is no way for a tool to tell an application that it can't do something, so do it for me... From the first time we saw the CTB (seed 1), this was a big issue of contention between developers and the CTB team. No matter what we said, we could not convince them that users NEEDED the host controlled printing - especially print passthrough! Maybe now that sites are trying to use it, they will see the error of their ways....(so, Byron & Alex - I told you so!) -- Leonard Rosenthol Software Ventures Corp. MicroPhone II Development Team
rpcfod@uarthur.UUCP (Robert Patt-Corner) (10/31/90)
In followup, I hope Apple does understand that print passthrough isn't just a "nice to have", but is *essential* for any production terminal emulator, especially a vt, and especially for any site using All-In-One. As much as I like LANWorks, I expect to have to drop MacTerminal if print passthru isn't implemented, and curiously, that impacts the overall acceptance of LanWorks at our site and indirectly the acceptance of the Apple. Odd, but true. So far, I've told the users this would be fixed, never dreaming anyone would release a product without the feature. I've heard very polite and knowledgable responses from Apple saying how it couldn't be donw -- at least easily. But Versaterm does it, with the toolbox too. White Pine does it. Birds do it, bees do it .... Hopefully Apple is listening. Sad or glad, MacTerminal is the most visible part of LANWorks to an end user, and having to drop it form the overall picture at a site casts a lot of doubt on LanWorks as an overall solution. For want of a nail ...
han@Apple.COM (Byron Han, scapegoat) (10/31/90)
In article <24@uarthur.UUCP> rpcfod@uarthur.UUCP (Robert Patt-Corner) writes: > >Hopefully Apple is listening. Apple IS listening. And rest assured that any and all comments, good and bad, are being taken into consideration for development priorities and resource allocation. This is not a commitment to have functionality X in time frame Y, but we are listening... Byron Han Iceman
resnick@cogsci.uiuc.edu (Pete Resnick) (10/31/90)
han@Apple.COM (Byron Han, scapegoat) writes: >Apple IS listening. And rest assured that any and all comments, good and >bad, are being taken into consideration for development priorities and >resource allocation. This is not a commitment to have functionality X >in time frame Y, but we are listening... >Byron Han >Iceman I think CTB is a great idea. I love standardization. Don't take this as an attack. I think you are doing a great job and have given great input to the net. (End of pre-flame disclaimer.) (Little candle size flame:) Does this mean that print-pasthru *is* "being taken into consideration for development priority", and if so, how high a priority is it? I think noone really wants a committment; just a little more than a few sentences that look an awful lot like soft soap. How high is it on the list? (end of tiny little spark of a flame) pr -- Pete Resnick (...so what is a mojo, and why would one be rising?) Graduate assistant - Philosophy Department, Gregory Hall, UIUC System manager - Cognitive Science Group, Beckman Institute, UIUC Internet/ARPAnet/EDUnet : resnick@cogsci.uiuc.edu BITNET (if no other way) : FREE0285@UIUCVMD
resnick@cogsci.uiuc.edu (Pete Resnick) (04/24/91)
I have been running around trying to find out some more detailed information about MacTerminal 3.0, but the mystery goes on. If I could even find access to a mac running the program, that would answer half of my questions. Can anyone tell me the following: 1. MacTCP - There was a clear communication gap between myself and the infinitely patient person at the Apple Assistance Center. Is there a Telnet tool available from Apple for MacTerminal? (I know there is at least something included with some third party products.) The person I was speaking to there seemed to indicate that MacTerminal came out of the box working with MacTCP. From everything I heard, this was not the case. What's the deal? 2. Kermit, YMODEM, ZMODEM - Are all of these file transfer tools available and work with MacTerminal? Are any of them public domain? (I would hope that at least Kermit is for legal reasons; I don't know about the others.) 3. FTP - Is an FTP file transfer tool available? Does it even make sense to have an FTP file transfer tool, or is FTP not the kind of thing suited to a file transfer tool? If so, is it commercial or shareware? 4. Do tools that anyone else writes drop right in to MacTerminal such as terminal emulators or connection tools, or is there some special stuff that a programmer (perhaps myself in the future) will need to do to make stuff MacTerminal compatible? 5. Will it work just ducky with my good old 2400 baud Everex modem? Is it configurable so that I can insert things into the AT line (like L0 to lower the volume)? Thanks in advance for answers. If anyone in the Champaign-Urbana area is running MacTerminal 3.0, I would love to take a look before I buy it. pr -- Pete Resnick (...so what is a mojo, and why would one be rising?) Graduate assistant - Philosophy Department, Gregory Hall, UIUC System manager - Cognitive Science Group, Beckman Institute, UIUC Internet/ARPAnet/EDUnet : resnick@cogsci.uiuc.edu BITNET (if no other way) : FREE0285@UIUCVMD
dorner@pequod.cso.uiuc.edu (Steve Dorner) (04/24/91)
In article <1991Apr23.224409.2375@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> resnick@cogsci.uiuc.edu (Pete Resnick) writes: >5. Will it work just ducky with my good old 2400 baud Everex modem? >Is it configurable so that I can insert things into the AT line >(like L0 to lower the volume)? If (working from no more info than you) MacTerminal is used with the standard Apple Modem Tool, the answers are "Probably, if your modem is dumb" and "Yes, but you won't find out how in the documentation." First, the AMT does not work with MNP-5 or other data compression schemes. The problem is that such modems run the serial port at a higher rate than the phone line (*compression*). However, the AMT insists on resetting the serial rate to match the line rate, resulting in disaster. This is fixable. Second, you can get at the configuration string that's sent to the modem. Hold down the option key when pressing on the modem type popup, and a "Custom..." dialog box appears. Choose it, and you'll be able to edit the init string. While you're in there, change "X4" to "X0", and your MNP-5 modem will operate again; this makes the modem not report the phone line speed, so the AMT doesn't have a chance to do anything stupid. Other Incompatibilities: The "US Robotics Courier" configuration that comes with the AMT is DOA unless you have a hardware-handshake cable. Delete the "&" parameters from the init string if your cable isn't up to snuff. Then it will work fine (again, if you're using compression, you better change the X4 to X0...). The "Lightspeed" 2400 MNP-5 modems don't work with the AMT. Lightspeed claims that there's an update to the AMT coming out that fixes the problem, but I haven't been able to get anybody at Apple to fess up about it. -- Steve Dorner, U of Illinois Computing Services Office Internet: s-dorner@uiuc.edu UUCP: uunet!uiucuxc!uiuc.edu!s-dorner
han@Apple.COM (Byron Han) (04/25/91)
In article <1991Apr23.224409.2375@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> resnick@cogsci.uiuc.edu (Pete Resnick) writes: > >1. MacTCP - There was a clear communication gap between myself and >the infinitely patient person at the Apple Assistance Center. Is >there a Telnet tool available from Apple for MacTerminal? There are a couple of third party solutions. Advanced Software Concepts and InterCon are two companies that come to mind immediately. > >2. Kermit, YMODEM, ZMODEM - Are all of these file transfer tools >available and work with MacTerminal? Seaquest Software has KERMIT and ZMODEM file transfer tools in development. > >3. FTP - Is an FTP file transfer tool available? Does it even make >sense to have an FTP file transfer tool, or is FTP not the kind >of thing suited to a file transfer tool? Advanced Software Concepts' TCPack Connection Tool also contains a built-in FTP Server. They are also working on a FTP file transfer tool. >4. Do tools that anyone else writes drop right in to MacTerminal >such as terminal emulators or connection tools, or is there some >special stuff that a programmer (perhaps myself in the future) will >need to do to make stuff MacTerminal compatible? Should be immediately compatible. Should be. :-) > >5. Will it work just ducky with my good old 2400 baud Everex modem? >Is it configurable so that I can insert things into the AT line >(like L0 to lower the volume)? The built-in modem initialization strings can be modified in the Apple Modem Tool. They are rumours that there might be other third party companies working on connection tools that will work with modems. >Thanks in advance for answers. If anyone in the Champaign-Urbana area >is running MacTerminal 3.0, I would love to take a look before I buy >it. > Hope this helps. -- Byron Han, CommToolbox Emir The dream continues... Apple Computer, Inc. -------------------------------------------- 20525 Mariani Ave, MS: 35CP Internet: han@apple.COM Cupertino, CA 95014 AppleLink: HAN1 HAN1@applelink.apple.COM Phone: 1.408.974.6450 CompuServe: 72167,1664