stanger@otago.ac.nz (Nigel Stanger) (05/30/91)
In article <1991May27.153939.435@otago.ac.nz>, I wrote: > I just got the March issue of MacWorld (what a time-lag, maybe I > should get a direct subscription...), and I was looking through > the MacConnection ad when I spotted a 9600 modem for $489, rather > than the usual ~$700. It was the Practical Modem 9600SA by > Practical Peripherals. I am looking for a 9600 modem at the > moment, so I thought this was a good deal, perhaps... The > description was a little uninformative, so I was wondering if > anyone could answer the following: [ etc etc ] Well, I have found out quite a lot about the company and their modems. Here is an attempt at a summary: 1. Lots of people do in fact own this particular modem, and all but two of those who replied were most impressed with them (about 80-90% "OK" rating). The modem it self was rated as very good to excellent, even though there have been ROM problems with it. To counter this, the support from the company has been very good (see below). 2. Yes, it is Hayes compatible (see below again). 3. Practical Peripherals have been making modems for several years. They produced 2400 modems up until recently, when they brought out the 9600SA. There were several bugs in the ROM, which were quickly fixed, and the whole thing seems pretty stable at the moment. The company is in fact a wholly-owned subsidiary of Hayes (that says something :-), and I have been told that their support is generally very good to excellent. For anyone who wants to get in touch with them, their details are as follows: PRACTICAL PERIPHERALS 31245 La Baya Drive Westlake Village, California 91362 USA Corporate HQs: 1-818-706-0333 Technical Support: 1-818-991-8200 FAX: 1-818-706-2474 Oh, out of interest, I just got a fax back from MacConnection - their current price (including cable but excluding freight) is $504. Thanks to all the (many!) people who replied, you were a great help in making up my mind. -- See ya Nigel. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Nigel Stanger, Internet: stanger@otago.ac.nz c/o University of Otago, P.O. Box 56, Phone: +64 3 479-8179 Dunedin, NEW ZEALAND. Fax: +64 3 479-8311 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- "If I had a quote, I'd be wearing it." -- Bob Dylan ----------------------------------------------------------------------
treesh@vangogh.helios.nd.edu (06/04/91)
Is this a real 9600 baud carrier modem, or is it just a 2400 with thur-put of up to that of arround 960 cps?? ctfm
weiss@crowe.seas.ucla.edu (Michael Weiss) (06/04/91)
In article <1991Jun3.214823.1567@news.nd.edu> treesh@vangogh.helios.nd.edu writes: >Is this a real 9600 baud carrier modem, or is it just a 2400 with thur-put of >up to that of arround 960 cps?? It's real. It's got 9600 baud, PLUS v.42bis, but its serial connection is limited to 19,200. It cooks, especially considering the price! -- \ | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | / - Michael weiss@seas.ucla.edu | School of Engineering & Applied Science - - Weiss izzydp5@oac.ucla.edu | University of California, Los Angeles - / | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | \
stern@ims.alaska.edu (Pete Stern) (06/04/91)
> It's real. It's got 9600 baud, PLUS v.42bis, but its serial connection is > limited to 19,200. It cooks, especially considering the price! And the fact it suffers from a known bug in trying to talk to other low speed modems. Seems they didn't do enough testing with 2400 baud modems before releasing it. To their credit, they have apparently been releasing a rom a week practically, trying to fix the problem. At least they are working on the problem unlike Intel. -- --------------------------------------------------------------- Peter Stern stern@ims.alaska.edu Box 60285 pstern@f38.n17.z1.fidonet.org Fairbanks AK 99706 65' North DVNet Headquarters BBS
dsiebert@icaen.uiowa.edu (Doug Siebert) (06/04/91)
In article <2994@lee.SEAS.UCLA.EDU> weiss@crowe.seas.ucla.edu (Michael Weiss) writes: >In article <1991Jun3.214823.1567@news.nd.edu> treesh@vangogh.helios.nd.edu writes: >>Is this a real 9600 baud carrier modem, or is it just a 2400 with thur-put of >>up to that of arround 960 cps?? > >It's real. It's got 9600 baud, PLUS v.42bis, but its serial connection is >limited to 19,200. It cooks, especially considering the price! Mine can connect at 38400 with no problem. Too bad I don't have access to a 9600 v.42bis modem to call into to play with, though :(
lriggins@afit.af.mil (L. Maurice Riggins) (06/04/91)
In article <2994@lee.SEAS.UCLA.EDU> weiss@crowe.seas.ucla.edu (Michael Weiss) writes: |It's real. It's got 9600 baud, PLUS v.42bis, but its serial connection is |limited to 19,200. It cooks, especially considering the price! The one I had (that died within 30 days of new) ran 38,400. -- Maurice INTERNET: lriggins@blackbird.afit.af.mil (129.92.1.2) Opinions expressed here do not reflect those of my employer nor constitute an official position of any U.S.Government agency.
time@ice.com (Tim Endres) (06/05/91)
In article <1991Jun3.214823.1567@news.nd.edu>, treesh@vangogh.helios.nd.edu writes: > Is this a real 9600 baud carrier modem, or is it just a 2400 with thur-put of > up to that of arround 960 cps?? It is a true V.32 carrier capable modem. I might add, that after using one for debuging purposes here at ICE, I can honestly say the modem is a good value. It works, has a decent box, easy to setup, and it is affordable. Technical support certainly seemed above par, and when one of our customers had a problem using their modem with our software, PP had a modem sent to us immediately so that we could debug the problem here on site! WITHOUT compression, we routinely see 700-750 characters per second (real file characters sent) and with compression, that number will approach 1200 cps with textual data! tim. ------------------------------------------------------------- Tim Endres | time@ice.com ICE Engineering | uupsi!ice.com!time 8840 Main Street | Voice FAX Whitmore Lake MI. 48189 | (313) 449 8288 (313) 449 9208
tagreen@lothario.ucs.indiana.edu (Todd Green) (06/05/91)
>> Is this a real 9600 baud carrier modem, or is it just a 2400 with thur-put >> up to that of arround 960 cps?? I cannot believe that it is 9600 baud. I would assume that it is 2400 baud carrying 4 bits per signal change. (Hence 9600 bps) Add MNP5 and you get 19.2Kbps (with 2:1) compression. Add v42bis and you get 38.4K (with 4:1) compression. How do you other people arrive at 9600 baud? > >WITHOUT compression, we routinely see 700-750 characters per second >(real file characters sent) and with compression, that number will >approach 1200 cps with textual data! Well I have a Hayes UltraSmartmodem 9600 with v42bis. I was also the bozo that claimed 22K throughput on compressed files. Sorry that must have been yet another late night. Should have read on text files. usually can get 960cps to 1100 cps on compressed files As for the _real_ world, I called Hayes 1-800 bbs in GA. (I live in Indiana). Here are the results of a 38.4K connection using Zmodem, White Knight 11.07 and having Zmodem generate a final report. You can generate the bits per second by taking the (Size*9bits)/(time*8bits) (Since you have one stop bit, 8 data bits and no parity). They highest cps rate that I achieved was ~3100 cps (during the straight text file) and ~1200 cps for the archived file. Hayes Microcomputer Products, Inc., Norcross GA, USA THE-WAVE.TXT 143579 11/27/90 The wave! File transfer test file DAYRPT.ARC 8423 11/11/87 Compressed Lotus file DAYRPT.WKS 19712 11/11/87 Standard, non-compressed Lotus file SUNSET.ARC 5084 11/11/87 Compressed Graphics File SUNSET.PIC 16391 11/11/87 Standard, non-compressed Graphics file TEXT109K.ARC 29775 11/11/87 Compressed Text File 109K original TEXT109K.TXT 111386 3/20/90 Standard, non-compressed Text File File:'TEXT109K.TXT #1', Time: 0:40, Size: 111386, Efficiency: 71% File:'SUNSET.PIC #1', Time: 0:06, Size: 16391, Efficiency: 71% File:'TEXT109K.ARC #1', Time: 0:27, Size: 29775, Efficiency: 28% File:'DAYRPT.ARC #1', Time: 0:07, Size: 8423, Efficiency: 30% File:'TEXT109K.ARC #1', Time: 0:27, Size: 29775, Efficiency: 28% Todd -- Internet: tagreen@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu NeXTMail: tagreen@lothario.ucs.indiana.edu BitNet: tagreen@iubacs.bitnet
time@ice.com (Tim Endres) (06/05/91)
In article <1991Jun4.194525.14503@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu>, tagreen@lothario.ucs.indiana.edu (Todd Green) writes: > >> Is this a real 9600 baud carrier modem, or is it just a 2400 with thur-put > >> up to that of arround 960 cps?? > > I cannot believe that it is 9600 baud. I would assume that it is 2400 > baud carrying 4 bits per signal change. (Hence 9600 bps) Add MNP5 and > you get 19.2Kbps (with 2:1) compression. Add v42bis and you get 38.4K > (with 4:1) compression. How do you other people arrive at 9600 baud? The Practical Peripheral Practical Modem 9600SA is a V.32 modem. Fully capable of 9600 baud carrier, MNP, V.42, V.42bis, and works with Telebits modems in V.32 and others we've tested with. It is a good value. tim. ------------------------------------------------------------- Tim Endres | time@ice.com ICE Engineering | uupsi!ice.com!time 8840 Main Street | Voice FAX Whitmore Lake MI. 48189 | (313) 449 8288 (313) 449 9208
weiss@curtiss.seas.ucla.edu (Michael Weiss) (06/07/91)
In article <6320@ns-mx.uiowa.edu> dsiebert@icaen.uiowa.edu (Doug Siebert) writes: >In article <2994@lee.SEAS.UCLA.EDU> weiss@crowe.seas.ucla.edu (Michael Weiss) writes: >>It's real. It's got 9600 baud, PLUS v.42bis, but its serial connection is >>limited to 19,200. It cooks, especially considering the price! > >Mine can connect at 38400 with no problem. Too bad I don't have access to a >9600 v.42bis modem to call into to play with, though :( Wait a sec...are you meaning to tell me that you are receiving data through the Mac serial port from the Practical Peripherals modem at 38.4Kbaud? Or are you saying that the modem is receiving data from another modem at 38.4? There is a difference, ya know. I had read somewhere (or heard on the net, or SOMETHING) that the modem could not talk with the computer at faster than 19.2. -- \ | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | / - Michael weiss@seas.ucla.edu | School of Engineering & Applied Science - - Weiss izzydp5@oac.ucla.edu | University of California, Los Angeles - / | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | \
weiss@curtiss.seas.ucla.edu (Michael Weiss) (06/07/91)
In article <1991Jun4.194525.14503@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu> tagreen@lothario.ucs.indiana.edu (Todd Green) writes: >I cannot believe that it is 9600 baud. I would assume that it is 2400 >baud carrying 4 bits per signal change. (Hence 9600 bps) Add MNP5 and >you get 19.2Kbps (with 2:1) compression. Add v42bis and you get 38.4K >(with 4:1) compression. How do you other people arrive at 9600 baud? I'm sure I'm not the only one who will point this out. True, it is not 9600 baud, but it has happened generally that people confused baud with bits per second. The maximum baudrate at full duplex is 600 baud without echo cancellation, 1200 baud with. By adding phase-shifting, that 1200 baud with 1200 bps can be upped to 1200 baud with 9600 bps. Also, it should be noted that 1200 and 2400 bps modems did not achieve those speeds through echo cancellation, but rather through phase-shifting a 600 baud carrier. -- \ | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | / - Michael weiss@seas.ucla.edu | School of Engineering & Applied Science - - Weiss izzydp5@oac.ucla.edu | University of California, Los Angeles - / | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | \
dsiebert@icaen.uiowa.edu (Doug Siebert) (06/07/91)
In article <3032@lee.SEAS.UCLA.EDU> weiss@curtiss.seas.ucla.edu (Michael Weiss) writes: >In article <6320@ns-mx.uiowa.edu> dsiebert@icaen.uiowa.edu (Doug Siebert) writes: >>Mine can connect at 38400 with no problem. Too bad I don't have access to a >>9600 v.42bis modem to call into to play with, though :( > >Wait a sec...are you meaning to tell me that you are receiving data through >the Mac serial port from the Practical Peripherals modem at 38.4Kbaud? Or >are you saying that the modem is receiving data from another modem at 38.4? >There is a difference, ya know. I had read somewhere (or heard on the net, >or SOMETHING) that the modem could not talk with the computer at faster than >19.2. Yup. I get a message "CONNECT 38400" when it does this. Plus my manual also mentions this feature (and the ad I saw before I bought it did as well) I have heard that they have been busily updating ROMs and perhaps it started out only able to talk to the Mac at 19200 but this was later changed? This reminds me....I bought mine in February and (lazy me) still have yet to send in the warranty registration card that's sitting in my desk. Have there been any major bug fixes (I haven't any had problems though...) since then that anyone who *has* sent in the warranty card can tell me about? If not, maybe I'll just continue to be lazy and wait to send it in until the postage rate increases (again) :-) -- |-----------------------------|-----------------------------------------------| | Doug Siebert | "All opinions expressed herein are obviously | | | superior to yours, otherwise you wouldn't | | dsiebert@icaen.uiowa.edu | need to be reading this, now would you?" :-) | |-----------------------------|-----------------------------------------------|
pejacoby@mmm.serc.3m.com (Paul E. Jacoby) (06/08/91)
In article <3032@lee.SEAS.UCLA.EDU> weiss@curtiss.seas.ucla.edu (Michael Weiss) writes: >>Mine can connect at 38400 with no problem. Too bad I don't have access to a >>9600 v.42bis modem to call into to play with, though :( > >Wait a sec...are you meaning to tell me that you are receiving data through >the Mac serial port from the Practical Peripherals modem at 38.4Kbaud? Or >are you saying that the modem is receiving data from another modem at 38.4? >There is a difference, ya know. I had read somewhere (or heard on the net, >or SOMETHING) that the modem could not talk with the computer at faster than >19.2. No, the Practical Peripherals 9600SA most certainly WILL talk to/from the Mac at 38.4K. I run mine that way all the time, and use the &Q6 switch to connect to 2400 baud systems. Otherwise, it takes care of all other connection possibilities.
glenn@gla-aux.uucp (Glenn Austin) (06/10/91)
In article <1991Jun4.194525.14503@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu>, tagreen@lothario.ucs.indiana.edu (Todd Green) writes: > > >> Is this a real 9600 baud carrier modem, or is it just a 2400 with thur-put > >> up to that of arround 960 cps?? > > I cannot believe that it is 9600 baud. I would assume that it is 2400 > baud carrying 4 bits per signal change. (Hence 9600 bps) Add MNP5 and > you get 19.2Kbps (with 2:1) compression. Add v42bis and you get 38.4K > (with 4:1) compression. How do you other people arrive at 9600 baud? Yes, it IS a true V.32/V.42bis 9600 baud modem. Where have you been over the last year and a half while the V.32 protocol was being (rather loudly) announced? I had a PP 2400SA until two months ago, when I gave it to my dad for his system, and since I needed FAX capability (for my business) as well as V.32/ V.42/V.42bis, I had replaced it with a Prometheus ProModem 9600M Plus, two weeks before they introduced the Ultima :-( At least there's an upgrade path, although slightly pricey ($199)... =============================================================================== | Glenn L. Austin | "Turn too soon, run out of room. | | Macintosh Wizard and | Turn too late, much better fate." | | Auto Racing Driver | -- Jim Russell Racing School Instructors | |-----------------------------------------------------------------------------| | Don't take me too seriously -- I never do! :-) | |-----------------------------------------------------------------------------| | Usenet: glenn@gla-aux.uucp or glenn%gla-aux.uucp@skinner.cs.uoregon.edu | ===============================================================================
rbrewer@reed.edu (06/10/91)
In article <0E010021.00p3xj@gla-aux.uucp> glenn%gla-aux.uucp@skinner.cs.uoregon.edu writes: >In article <1991Jun4.194525.14503@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu>, tagreen@lothario.ucs.indiana.edu (Todd Green) writes: >> >> Is this a real 9600 baud carrier modem, or is it just a 2400 with thur-put >> >> up to that of arround 960 cps?? >> I cannot believe that it is 9600 baud. I would assume that it is 2400 >> baud carrying 4 bits per signal change. (Hence 9600 bps) Add MNP5 and >> you get 19.2Kbps (with 2:1) compression. Add v42bis and you get 38.4K >> (with 4:1) compression. How do you other people arrive at 9600 baud? > >Yes, it IS a true V.32/V.42bis 9600 baud modem. Where have you been over >the last year and a half while the V.32 protocol was being (rather loudly) >announced? > >| Glenn L. Austin | "Turn too soon, run out of room. | >| Usenet: glenn@gla-aux.uucp or glenn%gla-aux.uucp@skinner.cs.uoregon.edu | I think we are having the classic "baud vs bps" problem. Back when we had 300 baud modems, the baudrate was equal to the number of bits per second (bps). Baud refers to the number of state changes per second, and it is NOT the same as the bps. It happened to be the same for early modems, so people got in the habit of using the word 'baud' instead of 'bps'. The point that Todd appears to be making is that there is no such thing as a 9600 BAUD modem. A modem using V.32 is 9600 bps, not 9600 baud. The confusion comes in with 2400 bps modems that have MNP5 or V.42bis. These allow compression, and therefore in some cases can make actual throughput (number of bytes stored on your disk) higher than 2400 bps. The manufacturers' often claim that their modems run at 9600 bps (or even worse 9600 baud!), which is not true. They may give you better throughput on some (noncompressed) files, but they are certainly not 9600 bps modems by any stretch of the imagination. The moral of the story is: don't use the word baud unless you really have to. 'bps' is almost always the 'right' choice. I have redirected follow-ups to comp.dcom.modems as this is getting pretty un Mac-related.
tagreen@lothario.ucs.indiana.edu (Todd Green) (06/11/91)
>(noncompressed) files, but they are certainly not 9600 bps modems by any >stretch of the imagination. People, let's put this to rest one final time. These modems are 2400 baud, 9600 bps modems!!!!! Trust me on this one. If you must persist send me email and I'll happily send you an article that'll explain most everything that you ever wanted to know about calculating modem speeds. Todd -- Internet: tagreen@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu NeXTMail: tagreen@lothario.ucs.indiana.edu BitNet: tagreen@iubacs.bitnet