anthony@cs.adelaide.edu (Anthony Dunstan) (06/20/91)
Hi everyboby,
Could someone PLEASE clarify the situation with System 7
and Appletalk Phase II.
Installing the Golden CD System 7 we get Phase I.
Where is Phase II?
We have a few Webster Multigates and Cisco's
around the Uni. here at Adelaide and (understandibly)
we are concerned that Phase II isn't mentioned
anywhere with all the System 7 blurb.
Will Phase II be part of the 7.0 Upgrade packs?
Thanks in advance,
Anthony.
----------------------------------------------
Anthony Dunstan
Just Another MacCyberMan, The University of Adelaide Apple Consortium.
Phone: +61 8 228 5502, Fax: +61 8 223 1206
Net: anthony@cs.adelaide.edu.aubrian@galileo.uucp (Brian Donnell [PT4]) (06/20/91)
Phase II only applies to EtherTalk protocols. If your Mac is connected to your net via LocalTalk lines (through the printer port), you do not need to worry about Phase II. However, System 7 Macs connected directly to the Ethernet must use EtherTalk Phase II protocols. To communicate with other Macs using LocalTalk, your LocalTalk/Ethernet gateway (such as a Fastpath) must understand Phase II EtherTalk. The big problem is if you have third party Ethernet boards. I have an EtherPort IIN from Shiva, and the EtherTalk drivers for System 7 are still in beta. I get crashes so frequently that the card is virtually useless and I've had to switch my machine back to a LocalTalk connection. Also, the current version of MacTCP likes to throw up on me every once in awhile as well (the truly System 7 compatible MacTCP 1.1 is also still in beta). I like System 7 - but I think APDA and third part developers have been too slow on the mark to come out with upgrades (part of it is Apple's fault for having so many different versions of System 7 during beta). So right now I'm working without MacTCP or an Ethernet card (sigh...) If you have Apple's Ethernet board, you should be fine (the EtherTalk drivers for those cards come with System 7). Hope this helps - Brian Donnell NASA/JSC
gad@eclipse.its.rpi.edu (Garance A. Drosehn) (06/21/91)
In article <1991Jun20.153638.25622@aio.jsc.nasa.gov> brian@galileo.uucp (Brian Donnell [PT4]) writes: > However, System 7 Macs connected directly to the Ethernet must use EtherTalk > Phase II protocols. To communicate with other Macs using LocalTalk, your > LocalTalk/Ethernet gateway (such as a Fastpath) must understand Phase II > EtherTalk. This is not true. You can use plain Ethernet support, it's just that the drivers do not come with system 7. If you drop in the Ethernet file from your old system and select it via the Network cdev. It works fine on my Mac IIci here at work (with an Apple ethernet card). I'm running it with MacTCP 1.0.1 and system 7, and haven't had any problems. - - - - - - - - Garance Alistair Drosehn = gad@rpi.edu or gad@eclipse.its.rpi.edu ITS Systems Programmer Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute; Troy NY USA
MacUserLabs@cup.portal.com (Stephan - Somogyi) (06/21/91)
anthony@cs.adelaide.edu (Anthony Dunstan) writes: >Could someone PLEASE clarify the situation with System 7 and >Appletalk Phase II. > >Installing the Golden CD System 7 we get Phase I. > >Where is Phase II? The ApppleTalk version built-in to System 7 is 56 - ie definitely Phase 2. If you select EtherTalk to be installed by Apple's standard Installer script, you will get EtherTalk Phase 2 drivers. I'm quite confused by your report to the contrary. Alan Oppenheimer said at the Developers' Conference that they are stopping engineering support for Phase 1 at the end of this year. brian@galileo.uucp (Brian Donnell [PT4]) writes: >Phase II only applies to EtherTalk protocols. If your Mac is >connected to your net via LocalTalk lines (through the printer >port), you do not need to worry about Phase II. Yes and no. While there is no extended addressing on LocalTalk networks, the Phase 2 LocalTalk drivers do use the best router algorithm. While you don't have to "worry" about Phase 2 in the context of LocalTalk, it certainly is not inconsequential either. >However, System 7 Macs connected directly to the Ethernet must use >EtherTalk Phase II protocols. To communicate with other Macs using >LocalTalk, your LocalTalk/Ethernet gateway (such as a Fastpath) must >understand Phase II EtherTalk. I do not believe this to be the case. Numerous people on the net have posted that they are running 7.0 together with the Phase 1 adev without difficulties. ______________________________________________________________________ Stephan Somogyi net.nerd MacUser
brian@galileo.uucp (Brian Donnell [PT4]) (06/21/91)
That sounds very suspicious to me. I have an EtherPort IIN from Shiva. And their drivers only give you EtherTalk Phase II for System 7. I also seem to recall reading somewhere in Apple's manuals for System 7 that Phase I was being Phased out - and System 7 would only support Phase II. I'll see if I can find it again and give you some page #'s. In the meantime - I'd keep my fingers crossed if I were you. Cheers - Brian Donnell NASA/JSC brian@krakatoa.jsc.nasa.gov
gad@eclipse.its.rpi.edu (Garance A. Drosehn) (06/22/91)
brian@galileo.uucp (Brian Donnell [PT4]) writes: > That sounds very suspicious to me. I have an EtherPort IIN from Shiva. > And their drivers only give you EtherTalk Phase II for System 7. I also > seem to recall reading somewhere in Apple's manuals for System 7 that Phase > I was being Phased out - and System 7 would only support Phase II. I'll > see if I can find it again and give you some page #'s. > > In the meantime - I'd keep my fingers crossed if I were you. While Apple is in the process of phasing out Phase I, it isn't dead yet. You can even get the Phase I module from Applelink "for system 7" if you want (I think it's in the system 7 info folder). The file you'll download is exactly the same as what we were using under system 6. It's quite possible that the driver might not work with 32-bit addressing or with virtual memory, but if you don't have those on then you should be able to use it with system 7 and without your fingers crossed. That might change whenever system 7.1 shows up, of course, so it would be prudent to switch over to Phase II sometime soon. - - - - - - - - Garance Alistair Drosehn = gad@rpi.edu or gad@eclipse.its.rpi.edu ITS Systems Programmer (handles NeXT-type mail) Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute; Troy NY USA
shoemake@Apple.COM (Mike Shoemaker) (06/22/91)
brian@galileo.uucp (Brian Donnell [PT4]) writes: >That sounds very suspicious to me. I have an EtherPort IIN from Shiva. >And their drivers only give you EtherTalk Phase II for System 7. I also >seem to recall reading somewhere in Apple's manuals for System 7 that Phase >I was being Phased out - and System 7 would only support Phase II. I'll >see if I can find it again and give you some page #'s. >In the meantime - I'd keep my fingers crossed if I were you. >Cheers - >Brian Donnell >NASA/JSC >brian@krakatoa.jsc.nasa.gov You are partly right. Apple is phasing out Phase 1 (pardon the pun). However, Phase 1 does work with System 7. We just don't ship the Phase 1 EtherTalk file along with the Personal Upgrade Kit. If you have the Group Upgrade (the CD-ROM), then the Phase 1 EtherTalk is on there. Otherwise, just grab the Phase 1 file that came with your Ethernet card or that you used to use before you upgraded to System 7. Put this in the Extensions folder within your System 7 System Folder, select it from the Network Control Panel, and you're off. The Ethernet driver that comes with your card has nothing at all to do with Phase 1/Phase 2. (Unless the 3rd party is brain-dead and is writing their own ADEV -- see below). To run AppleTalk protocols over Ethernet cabling requires two pieces of software in addition to the actual protocol stack. You need an ethernet driver for the hardware card. It is in the form of a Macintosh device driver. This driver just sends and receives packets -- it doesn't know nor care about protocols. MacTCP sends TCP/IP protocols using this driver, our Pathworks products send DEC LAT protocols using this driver, and of course, AppleTalk sends packets using this driver. You also need an EtherTalk ADEV. It is this ADEV that determines Phase 1/ Phase 2. It sits between the AppleTalk protocol stack (or router) and the Ethernet driver. This ADEV is licensed by Apple to nearly every 3rd party maker of ethernet cards for the Mac. The 3rd party (Shiva) should supply you with an Ethernet driver. For System 7, it is an 'enet' resource that is installed in the System file. Apple supplies the .ENET driver (DRVR #127). When someone (EtherTalk or MacTCP, for example tries to open the .ENET driver, the driver looks at the declaration ROM on the card and determines the Board's ID number. It then loads the 'enet' resource with the corresponding board ID and installs it in the driver unit table. Since the ethernet driver has a standard, well-defined interface, the Apple EtherTalk (Phase 1 or Phase 2) ADEVs will work with any 3rd party card that comes with an ethernet driver. If your favorite 3rd party card maker is still writing their own ADEV, lean on them. It will save you having to get a ADEV update from them in the future to work with new Apple networking products. We will update our ADEV, and it will work with their card. Bottom line: Ethernet Phase 1 works and was tested on System 7 -- we just don't distribute the Phase 1 EtherTalk ADEV along with System Software. Mike Shoemaker Distributed Systems (formerly Networking & Communications) Apple Computer, Inc.