clubmac@runxtsa.runx.oz.au (Club Mac, Australia's Largest Mac Users Group) (05/01/90)
In article <7951@goofy.Apple.COM> chewy@apple.com (Paul Snively) writes: >1) We (MacDTS specifically) have, as part of our sample code, code for dealing > with offscreen bit/pixMaps that make it comparatively easy to do flicker > free animation. Is it available to non-partners? >2) We have tools such as the Sound Manager and the MACE system for dealing > with sound compression, decompression, and playback in a very consistent > manner. Let's see some decent examples of using the Sound Manager - I've seen a lot of people express difficulties with SM on comp.sys.mac.programmer. >Well, we'll see if you still feel that way when we ship it. In the >meantime, you're more than welcome to do better. WHEN IS IT GOING TO SHIP? Are we going to see it before Boston Expo? Sure, little ol' me with sweet FA inside information is going to do better than the hordes of programmers working on System 7.0! From all the hype on System 7.0, it better be as good as Jan '84. _____________________________________________________________________________ | Jason Haines, Vice-President | | Club Mac - Australia's Largest Macintosh Users Group | | P.O. Box 213, Holme Building, Sydney University, NSW 2006 | | | | INTERNET:clubmac@runxtsa.runx.oz.au UUCP: uunet!runxtsa.runx.oz.au!clubmac | | ACSNet: clubmac@runxtsa.runx.oz | | | | "We come in peace,shoot to kill,shoot to kill" - Captain Kirk, Star Trekkin'| |_____________________________________________________________________________|
chewy@apple.com (Paul Snively) (05/02/90)
In article <1615@runxtsa.runx.oz.au> clubmac@runxtsa.runx.oz.au (Club Mac, Australia's Largest Mac Users Group) writes: > In article <7951@goofy.Apple.COM> chewy@apple.com (Paul Snively) writes: > >1) We (MacDTS specifically) have, as part of our sample code, code for dealing > > with offscreen bit/pixMaps that make it comparatively easy to do flicker > > free animation. > > Is it available to non-partners? Yes. Specifically, if you FTP to apple.com and browse around pub/dts/mac, it's in there somewhere with the rest of the sample code. > >2) We have tools such as the Sound Manager and the MACE system for dealing > > with sound compression, decompression, and playback in a very consistent > > manner. > > Let's see some decent examples of using the Sound Manager - I've seen a lot > of people express difficulties with SM on comp.sys.mac.programmer. Likewise, which is why we have SoundApp now as part of our sample code. Look in the same place as for the offscreen sample. > >Well, we'll see if you still feel that way when we ship it. In the > >meantime, you're more than welcome to do better. > > WHEN IS IT GOING TO SHIP? Optimistically, late summer. > Are we going to see it before Boston Expo? I don't know. > Sure, little ol' me with sweet FA inside information is going to do better than > the hordes of programmers working on System 7.0! From all the hype on System > 7.0, it better be as good as Jan '84. My point was precisely that what we're doing is difficult, given the overall goals of our System Software, and since one of our overriding goals is reliability, it's late. On the other hand, it incorporates some technologies that we felt it important to tell our developers about early so that they wouldn't be completely swamped with new stuff when we suddenly sprung System 7.0 on them. You can't have it both ways; you can't have important information up front, followed by an immediate release of the new stuff. As for the "hordes of programmers working on System 7.0," hopefully everyone knows that the way to get something done quicker isn't to throw more manpower at it. :-) As for "will it be January '84 again," the answer is basically yes--and, as in January of 1984, it will take some time before we see software that really takes advantage of the system. __________________________________________________________________________ Paul Snively Macintosh Developer Technical Support Apple Computer, Inc. 1st Choice: Paul_Snively.DTS@gateway.qm.apple.com 2nd Choice: CHEWBACCA@applelink.apple.com Last Choice: chewy@apple.com Just because I work for Apple Computer, Inc. doesn't mean that I believe what they believe, or vice-versa. __________________________________________________________________________
nebel@wam.umd.edu (Chris D. Nebel) (05/04/90)
In article <6848@jarthur.Claremont.EDU> kclark@jarthur.Claremont.EDU (The Chaos Assassin) writes: >>Along the same lines, "The Bilestoad" was a nice piece of work -- overhead >>view of two armored warriors chasing each other all over creation, each >>with an axe and a shield.... Kind of sick, actually, I guess.... Kind of sick, yes, but oh, so fun! :) >What happened to this game ? I saw an ad for it once and thought that it >would be a good game. Was it ? Is it ? For the Apple series, correct ? As far as I know, it was only availible on the Apple II. A friend and I once spent an afternoon playing it head-to-head. It definitely appealed to the, ah, baser instincts. Only game I've ever seen where you could chop somebody's arms off. On the whole, great fun, but very hard to control, especially with keyboard. Chris Nebel "Heh. Heh. Nyaaaa ah ha ha ha ha!!!! .... Oh. Pardon me." nebel@wam.umd.edu
jbg93@campus.swarthmore.edu (05/04/90)
-Message-Text-Follows- In article <1990May3.170534.25853@wam.umd.edu>, nebel@wam.umd.edu (Chris D. Nebel) writes... >As far as I know, [Bilestoad] was only availible on the Apple II. A friend and I >once spent an afternoon playing it head-to-head. It definitely appealed >to the, ah, baser instincts. Only game I've ever seen where you could >chop somebody's arms off. On the whole, great fun, but very hard to >control, especially with keyboard. > yeah, I remember Bilestoad. That was before Macs were invented, if I recollect rightly. My friends and I used to spend many lunchetimes in junior high playing that game. of course only a select few of us ever mastered the keyboard controls (which were actually not too bad once you got to know them). Wouldn't that be cool ported to the Mac II in full color and all of it's gory detail. It was gross enough to get all of us interested (these were junior high kids, remember) with the measly apple ][e graphics, but just think of the possibilities... Another high point was the music. throughout the entire battle (involving teleport disks, fast-moving carrying disks, and anything you can do with an axe) music like Beethoven's "Fur Elise" or some other classic would be playing in the background. (the flowers and green playing field were also a nice touch) The potential for improving old games is simply staggering. I wonder if any of these will ever happen. james
bfb1@tank.uchicago.edu (B. F. Braumoeller) (05/04/90)
Y'know, this has potential. Out of all of the games I mentioned so many zillion messages ago, I've seen more responses which start off with, "Hey, yeah, Bilestoad! I remember...." IMO, this was one heckuva game; I'd buy a good version if such were to be made, and from the sound of it so would a lot of people. Right? So. The big question. Who can we con into writing it? Has to be someone good; if it were a pitiful port I'd cry. Maybe a letter-writing campaign. You people reading this represent a HUGE pressure group on the negative side, and a highly lucrative market on the positive one. We have to be able to get some programmer to do it and do it right. Ideas? And if this works, who knows? We could see Crossfire again. Or good versions of classic games. Imagine your favorite game on another machine -- on a Mac! It could happen, we just have to stand up and be loud and be counted! So who's got ideas? -BFB
farren@well.sf.ca.us (Mike Farren) (05/04/90)
ifan572@walt.cc.utexas.edu (Allen Wessels) writes: >In article <17540@well.sf.ca.us> farren@well.sf.ca.us (Mike Farren) writes: >>This has NOT been SSI's experience. NONE of their Mac games have sold >>in any significant quantities. >The operative word in the post you respond to is _well_. Nope. The operative word in the post is NONE. Not the ones that were done well, not the ones that were done poorly, NONE. And, as I said, this has also been the experience of every other game publisher I've ever asked about this. It doesn't take an in-depth analysis of the Mac marketplace to figure out why this is so. First - there aren't that many of them out there. Compared to the IBM clone market, Macs are pitifully few. Second - of those that ARE out there, a significant proportion of them are dedicated to serious applications, even when they are in the home. There just aren't that many people with both a Mac and a desire to play games - I would expect that the numbers are around 100,000 - a guess, but an educated one. Of that 100,000, you can expect only about 5% to buy your game, at best - the games that manage to get greater penetration than that are as rare as hen's teeth. So you're talking about high-end probable sales somewhere around 5 to 10 thousand copies - which is small time, especially for the larger game companies. Just right for a niche market player like Casady and Greene, or Miles, but not a market that a big game company is going to invest in heavily - not when they can get ten times that by simply moving to the IBM. I'll tell you what, though. I'm doing a port of SSI's Storm Across Europe just as soon as I finish up the Amiga and IBM versions. I plan on doing it well - I take a great deal of pride in my ports, and believe that I do a damn good job of them. This one, for example, will be as completely Mac-like as I can make it - which is a considerable pain in the butt, let me tell you, especially since it originally came from the C64. So, when this game is done, I'm just going to sit back and wait for the royalty checks to roll in from all of you folks who insist that the only criteria is that it's ported "well". But I'll tell you something - I'll also be doing other work, as I have a good idea how much money will come in from the Mac version, and I expect that I've already been paid more than they'll make... -- Mike Farren farren@well.sf.ca.us
nebel@wam.umd.edu (Chris D. Nebel) (05/04/90)
In article <31GJ2CK@xavier.swarthmore.edu> jbg93@campus.swarthmore.edu writes: >yeah, I remember Bilestoad. That was before Macs were invented, if I recollect >rightly. My friends and I used to spend many lunchetimes in junior high >playing that game. of course only a select few of us ever mastered the >keyboard controls (which were actually not too bad once you got to know them). >Wouldn't that be cool ported to the Mac II in full color and all of it's gory >detail. It was gross enough to get all of us interested (these were junior >high kids, remember) with the measly apple ][e graphics, but just think of the >possibilities... This does have interesting possiblities. Does anyone know who published Bilestoad and whether or not they're still around? If they're defunct, who (if anyone) would you have to ask to get permission to do a port? Chris Nebel nebel@wam.umd.edu
cca@newton.physics.purdue.edu (Charles C. Allen) (05/06/90)
>>>This has NOT been SSI's experience. NONE of their Mac games have sold >>>in any significant quantities. >>The operative word in the post you respond to is _well_. farren@well.sf.ca.us (Mike Farren): > Nope. The operative word in the post is NONE. Not the ones that were done > well, not the ones that were done poorly, NONE. And, as I said, this has > also been the experience of every other game publisher I've ever asked about > this. Please tell us which games have been done "well", in your opinion. I find that the game publishers and I often disagree about how well a game has been ported. Charles Allen Internet: cca@newton.physics.purdue.edu Department of Physics HEPnet: purdnu::allen, fnal::cca Purdue University talknet: 317/494-9776 West Lafayette, IN 47907
aperez@cvbnet.UUCP (Arturo Perez x6739) (05/07/90)
From article <17796@well.sf.ca.us>, by farren@well.sf.ca.us (Mike Farren): > ifan572@walt.cc.utexas.edu (Allen Wessels) writes: > >>In article <17540@well.sf.ca.us> farren@well.sf.ca.us (Mike Farren) writes: >>>This has NOT been SSI's experience. NONE of their Mac games have sold >>>in any significant quantities. >>The operative word in the post you respond to is _well_. > > Nope. The operative word in the post is NONE. Not the ones that were done > well, not the ones that were done poorly, NONE. And, as I said, this has > also been the experience of every other game publisher I've ever asked about > this. > > I'll tell you what, though. I'm doing a port of SSI's Storm Across Europe > just as soon as I finish up the Amiga and IBM versions. I plan on doing it > well - I take a great deal of pride in my ports, and believe that I do a > damn good job of them. This one, for example, will be as completely Mac-like > -- > Mike Farren farren@well.sf.ca.us I don't know. Something seems flawed in this approach of writing the game for a particular machine and then porting it. You're essentially guaranteeing that the game won't look like a typical Mac application, no matter how well you port it. It may or may not look like a game that was written on a DOS machine, but it certainly won't look like a game that was written on the Mac. Why? It won't look like it was written on the Mac because it'll take too much effort to port it using all of the Mac Toolkit you should use. For example, the recent expression of disgust at the Omega game. Instead of porting the game "correctly" the company used their home grown code, instead of the toolbox routines for things like scrollbars, the menu item, et al. Makes the thing look pretty gross to a Mac-ophile. Mac users are an unusual computer-using group. Their desire for applications that behave as closely as normal to the typical Mac application (as defined by Apple Computers) verges on the compulsive. Any other group of computer users don't have such high expectations of conformity. Now, I've not written anything for the Mac, but I have written lots of portable code. How hard is it to design something that is easily ported and that allows taking advantage of native graphics systems? Imagine writing something for the Mac (which is supposed to be one of the best, if not the best, development systems) and then porting it in 3 weeks to DOS running windows. Is that doable? Arturo Perez ComputerVision, a division of Prime aperez@cvbnet.prime.com Too much information, like a bullet through my brain -- The Police
talcott@nunki.usc.edu (Adam Talcott) (05/08/90)
In article <9133@tank.uchicago.edu> bfb1@tank.uchicago.edu (B. F. Braumoeller) writes: >So. The big question. Who can we con into writing it? Has to be someone >good; if it were a pitiful port I'd cry. Maybe a letter-writing campaign. How about Electronic Arts or Broderbund? I've been very impressed with the games they have done on the Mac and might be able to do a good port. >And if this works, who knows? We could see Crossfire again. Or good >versions of classic games. Imagine your favorite game on another machine -- >on a Mac! It could happen, we just have to stand up and be loud and be >counted! I'd love to see the old Apple ][ games (notice that all the games mentioned so far are Apple ][ games) on the Macintosh. I would definately get them. Imagine playing Aztec on the Mac... Gee. I'm glad I brought this up... | Adam Talcott | Who's more foolish? The fool | | talcott@nunki.usc.edu | or the fool who follows him? | | Electrical Engineering (Computers) Junior | | | University of Southern California | --Obi-Wan Kenobi |
nebel@wam.umd.edu (Chris D. Nebel) (05/08/90)
In article <9133@tank.uchicago.edu> bfb1@tank.uchicago.edu (B. F. Braumoeller) writes: >Y'know, this has potential. Out of all of the games I mentioned so many >zillion messages ago, I've seen more responses which start off with, "Hey, >yeah, Bilestoad! I remember...." IMO, this was one heckuva game; I'd buy a >good version if such were to be made, and from the sound of it so would a >lot of people. Right? > >So. The big question. Who can we con into writing it? Has to be someone Actually, I could be conned into writing it as long as all I had to do was write the game itself (i.e., not sell it!). I'd love to port some old Apple ][ games. Anyone remember Bolo? Chris Nebel nebel@wam.umd.edu
philbo@chaos.cs.brandeis.edu (Phil Gross) (05/08/90)
Do it, Chris!!!!! Port those games! If you have a copy of the apple II game, write the company and ask for permission to port it. You don't have to sell it, just either distribute it as public domain or shareware. If you need help with the legal aspect of talking to the original authors, please E-mail me, and I'll help as far as I can. There are a *LOT* of old appleII games that would be great on a mac! -- "Non sequitor est disputatum" "Non sequitor non carborundum" "Festina mente" philbo@chaos.cs.brandeis.edu | .......Copyright (C) 1990 By Philip Gross...... MB 1241/Brandeis University | Permission to copy for noncommercial use only PO Box 9110 Waltham, MA 02254 | other than net propogation, All Rights Reserved
zimerman@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Jacob Ben-david Zimmerman) (05/09/90)
Now BOLO was a game. Wow. I still have the sucker running on my II+ next to my Mac II...generation gap city. Bolo on a Mac would be amazing...you could even leave it a keyboard control system and I would be ecstatic. :-) -- ___________ |-Why is there a watermelon there? || |-I'll tell you later.<Reno&NJ, Buckaroo Banzai> || ||acob Zimmerman!+> <zimerman@phoenix.Princeton.EDU> INTERNET === | <zimerman@PUCC> BITnet
es2j+@andrew.cmu.edu (Edward John Sabol) (05/09/90)
>I'd love to port some old Apple ][ games. Anyone remember Bolo?
I loved Bolo! Other games I'd like to see ported are: Miner 2049er, Robotron:
2084, the original Colossal Cave adventure, and Wings of Fury.adchen@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Anthony Dunyeh Chen) (05/09/90)
In article <IaFoCbi00WB289AFIe@andrew.cmu.edu> es2j+@andrew.cmu.edu (Edward John Sabol) writes: >>I'd love to port some old Apple ][ games. Anyone remember Bolo? > >I loved Bolo! Other games I'd like to see ported are: Miner 2049er, Robotron: >2084, the original Colossal Cave adventure, and Wings of Fury. And Rescue Raiders, Star Blazer, Stellar 7, the list goes on... anyone want to compile a port-from-Apple-][-to-Mac-wish list 8-) 8-)
PAT@rcgl1.eng.ohio-state.edu (Pat Plaisted) (05/10/90)
Gee, the game I'd like to see ported from the apple ][ to a mac is Rescue Raiders. Just think, you could fly against another person over appletalk! =>Pat