inm501@csc.anu.oz.au (12/01/90)
I have a friend who is very keen on war games. Is there any GOOD war games on the MAC? He find Risk too easy.
mec@cbnewsj.att.com (michael.e.connick) (12/04/90)
In article <1990Dec1.120831.3651@csc.anu.oz.au>, inm501@csc.anu.oz.au writes: > > I have a friend who is very keen on war games. Is there any GOOD war > games on the MAC? He find Risk too easy. Strategic Simulations Group makes two terrific wargames for the Mac: Halls of Montezuma and Panzer Battles. Either one will satisfy a "serious" wargamer. ----------------------------------------------------- Michael Connick mec@mtfmi.ATT.COM AT&T Bell Labs
moose@svc.portal.com (01/01/91)
I am looking for a decent Mac war game. I already have Stategic Conquest, HOM, Panzer Battles, hate Patton vs. Rommel. I also have Ancient Art of War, but not at sea. I even picked up Computer Ambush, Risk, and Statego. I have seen mention of Operation Combat for the Mac. Anyone know if this is any good. I have also heard that Battles of the American Civil War is out, but cannot find it anywhere. Anyone found it yet? -- Michael Rutman | moose@svc.portal.com Cubist | makes me a NeXT programmer Software Ventures | For Your Eyes Only Public Key
wscott@en.ecn.purdue.edu (Wayne H Scott) (01/01/91)
In article <1990Dec31.232505.27769@svc.portal.com> moose@svc.portal.com writes: >I am looking for a decent Mac war game. >I already have Stategic Conquest, HOM, Panzer Battles, hate Patton vs. Rommel. >I also have Ancient Art of War, but not at sea. >I even picked up Computer Ambush, Risk, and Statego. > What is Computer Ambush? I know that name from a game on the Apple II that was VERY good. I hope that is the same game for the mac. -- _________________________________________________________________________ Wayne Scott | INTERNET: wscott@ecn.purdue.edu Electrical Engineering | BITNET: wscott%ecn.purdue.edu@purccvm Purdue University | UUCP: purdue, pur-ee}!ecn.purdue.edu!wscott
sharp@fsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (Maurice Sharp) (01/02/91)
In article <1990Dec31.232505.27769@svc.portal.com> moose@svc.portal.com writes: >I am looking for a decent Mac war game. >I already have Stategic Conquest, HOM, Panzer Battles, hate Patton vs. Rommel. >I have also heard that Battles of the American Civil War is out, but cannot >find it anywhere. Anyone found it yet? Hiya, I was chatting with SSG a few days ago. Civil War is not due out until the end of this month. Rommel is due out in a week or so. Rommel is another in the Battle Front games system series (like HOM & PB). It covers the war in the dessert. You can order from SSG directly, shipping is free, but the games is about US$39.95, most others are US$35. If you want the number for SSG, look in HOM or PB. If you can not find it, email me, and I will send it to you. BTW, the latest version of HOM/PB is 1.2, it speeds things up again. maurice -- Maurice Sharp MSc. Student (403) 220 7690 University of Calgary Computer Science Department 2500 University Drive N.W. sharp@cpsc.UCalgary.CA Calgary, Alberta, T2N 1N4 GEnie M.SHARP5
hirai@cs.swarthmore.edu (Eiji Hirai) (01/02/91)
[ discussion of SSG's Halls of Montezuma and Panzer Battles games ] I began to hate the Battlefront games because you couldn't tell the individual units to go where you wanted them to go. Many times, the computer would move units in the most idiotic places, places which any sane division commander wouldn't go to. Furthermore, you're limited in where you can go. If I want an army corp to take one road instead of the other, you have to give up since it's impossible. They just take the minimum distance route. Whatever happened to devious flanking of the enemy positions? Oh well. I felt like the computer was playing the game, not me. I felt like a bystander. sharp@fsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (Maurice Sharp) writes: > the latest version of HOM/PB is 1.2, it speeds > things up again. That was another reason why I began to hate the Battlefront games (version 1.2). The computer takes sooo long to make its moves that it was excruciating. I found that most of the time I plunged into the game was spent in waiting for the computer to finish its moves. That's not a very fun way to spend your time. sharp@fsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (Maurice Sharp) writes: > moose@svc.portal.com writes: > >I have also heard that Battles of the American Civil War is out, > > I was chatting with SSG a few days ago. Civil War is not due out > until the end of this month. Is their Decisive Battles systems any better than their Battlefront system? Does it let you move your units the way you want them to? I'd love to see a game with the graphics and details of SSG games without the stupid restraint of computerized unit movements. Any leads anyone? -- Eiji Hirai @ Mathematics Dept., Swarthmore College, Swarthmore, PA 19081-1397 hirai@cs.swarthmore.edu hirai@swarthmr.bitnet rutgers!hirai%cs.swarthmore.edu Copyright 1990 by Eiji Hirai. All Rights Reserved. Permission to reproduce or quote explicitly denied except on Usenet. I don't speak for Swarthmore College.
sharp@fsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (Maurice Sharp) (01/02/91)
Look dude, lets not start the I like vs. I hat PG/HOM war again.
The last time it occured it waisted a fair amount of bandwidth.
Suffice to say there are those who like it and those who do not. There
are those who know how to make their units move, and those who do not.
If you buy a game and do not like it, sell it.
As to your question on Civil War. It is completely different. I
have seen it on an Apple. You move individual units, at least you
issue orders to them. What they do depends on how the games parameters
are setup. If you play realistically, your orders may not get to a
unit. Ah, the problems of a pre-radio battlefield.
maurice
--
Maurice Sharp MSc. Student (403) 220 7690
University of Calgary Computer Science Department
2500 University Drive N.W. sharp@cpsc.UCalgary.CA
Calgary, Alberta, T2N 1N4 GEnie M.SHARP5moose@svc.portal.com (01/03/91)
In article <1991Jan1.153934.1488@en.ecn.purdue.edu> wscott@en.ecn.purdue.edu (Wayne H Scott) writes: >In article <1990Dec31.232505.27769@svc.portal.com> moose@svc.portal.com writes: >What is Computer Ambush? > >I know that name from a game on the Apple II that was VERY good. I hope that >is the same game for the mac. It's probably the same game. It's a direct port from some other game. Very poor mac interface. Anyway, it's a squad level WWII combat game in a town. there are five scenerios where the computer can play the Germans. Commands are given as FS0255 LR FS0254 would be fire a single shot at hex 0255, load rifle, fire a single shot at hex 0255. There is a way to enter the commands with the mouse, but you end up typing them in anyway once you know them. Overall, it's a very nice game. Book copy protection. Runs on my SE/30. Now for the bad news: It is a very old game that I picked up used for $15. I have never seen this at the store, nor in any catalogs, nor any mention made of it. Remember, in the early days of Macintosh, many games were ported over that failed. They still exist, but nobody is selling them. -- Michael Rutman | moose@svc.portal.com Cubist | makes me a NeXT programmer Software Ventures | For Your Eyes Only Public Key
bruceh@mentor.com (Bruce Holm) (01/03/91)
From article <8M6VS7@cs.swarthmore.edu>, by hirai@cs.swarthmore.edu (Eiji Hirai): > [ discussion of SSG's Halls of Montezuma and Panzer Battles games ] > > I began to hate the Battlefront games because you couldn't tell the > individual units to go where you wanted them to go. Many times, the > computer would move units in the most idiotic places, places which any sane > division commander wouldn't go to. Furthermore, you're limited in where you > can go. If I want an army corp to take one road instead of the other, you > have to give up since it's impossible. They just take the minimum distance > route. Whatever happened to devious flanking of the enemy positions? Oh > well. I felt like the computer was playing the game, not me. I felt like a > bystander. > > sharp@fsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (Maurice Sharp) writes: >> the latest version of HOM/PB is 1.2, it speeds >> things up again. > > That was another reason why I began to hate the Battlefront games (version > 1.2). The computer takes sooo long to make its moves that it was > excruciating. I found that most of the time I plunged into the game was > spent in waiting for the computer to finish its moves. That's not a very > fun way to spend your time. > > sharp@fsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (Maurice Sharp) writes: >> moose@svc.portal.com writes: >> >I have also heard that Battles of the American Civil War is out, >> >> I was chatting with SSG a few days ago. Civil War is not due out >> until the end of this month. > > Is their Decisive Battles systems any better than their Battlefront system? > Does it let you move your units the way you want them to? > > I'd love to see a game with the graphics and details of SSG games without > the stupid restraint of computerized unit movements. Any leads anyone? > I too agree with Eiji. I got PB for Christmas and found that it doesn't let you move your units where you want them to. I too like the graphics very much but the lack of control is discouraging. I'd like to hear of leads on other good gaming systems and encourage game writers to take note and write a war game the way it should be done. --Bruce -- *** These are my opinions and not necessarily those of MGC *** Bruce Holm / (503) 626-7000 Mentor Graphics Corp. / USENET: bruceh@pdx.mentor.com Beaverton, OR 97005-7191 / UUCP: ...!uunet!mntgfx!bruceh
bruceh@mentor.com (Bruce Holm) (01/03/91)
From article <1991Jan2.060913.18214@cpsc.ucalgary.ca>, by sharp@fsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (Maurice Sharp): > > Look dude, lets not start the I like vs. I hat PG/HOM war again. > The last time it occured it waisted a fair amount of bandwidth. > Suffice to say there are those who like it and those who do not. There > are those who know how to make their units move, and those who do not. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ I can make my units move...the question is how to make them move where you want them to move. I'd like to hear tips/directions on how to do this since the instructions book included with the game were pretty brief (lousy). I just got PB and find the limitation of only choosing an objective or an enemy unit to send your units to rather limiting. Why not allow any hex to be the objective? And once a battalion has engaged, why not allow its objective to be changed?...to allow the units to fight towards a different target (I realize ZOC limits movement but why not allow its objective to be changed). I'd appreciate what tips you have to offer to answer these questions. --Bruce -- *** These are my opinions and not necessarily those of MGC *** Bruce Holm / (503) 626-7000 Mentor Graphics Corp. / USENET: bruceh@pdx.mentor.com Beaverton, OR 97005-7191 / UUCP: ...!uunet!mntgfx!bruceh
witkowsk@optilink.UUCP (Dave Witkowski) (01/03/91)
From article <1991Jan1.212346.8052@cpsc.ucalgary.ca>, by sharp@fsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (Maurice Sharp): > ... it covers the war in the dessert. > Sounds messy... :)
moose@svc.portal.com (01/04/91)
In article <1991Jan2.205515.1884@mentor.com> bruceh@mentor.com (Bruce Holm) writes: > >I can make my units move...the question is how to make them move where you >want them to move. I'd like to hear tips/directions on how to do this since >the instructions book included with the game were pretty brief (lousy). >I just got PB and find the limitation of only choosing an objective or an >enemy unit to send your units to rather limiting. Why not allow any hex >to be the objective? And once a battalion has engaged, why not allow its >objective to be changed?...to allow the units to fight towards a different >target (I realize ZOC limits movement but why not allow its objective to be >changed). > >I'd appreciate what tips you have to offer to answer these questions. You cannot do what you want in the HOM/PB for the same reason you can't in real life. You don't have that fine of control over troops. You can say, go take that town, or come back to headquarters, but you cannot say go out to some arbitrary spot that I am thinking about. And, just like in real life, when someone is shooting at you, your men WILL shoot back. If you want them to move and attack someone else, you must pull them out of combat first. If you try to treat this like a standard war game, you will find this game very difficult. If you take it as a representation of the hassles of managing a battle, you will find they did a very good job. Just don't get me started on trying to create your own scenerios. -- Michael Rutman | moose@svc.portal.com Cubist | makes me a NeXT programmer Software Ventures | For Your Eyes Only Public Key
mjv1@quads.uchicago.edu (Michael Vinson) (01/05/91)
In article <1991Jan3.165953.1714@svc.portal.com> moose@svc.portal.com writes: >You cannot do what you want in the HOM/PB for the same reason you can't in >real life. You don't have that fine of control over troops. You can say, >go take that town, or come back to headquarters, but you cannot say go out >to some arbitrary spot that I am thinking about. Actually, you can do this with Battlefront. It is a simple matter to use WarPlan to edit the scenario to add as many objectives as you want, wherever you want. Just make them worth 0 points. WarPlan is extremely flexible; anyone who plays HoM or PB without using it is missing something. Michael Vinson
plague@milton.u.washington.edu (Jack Brown) (01/07/91)
In article <1990Dec31.232505.27769@svc.portal.com> moose@svc.portal.com writes: >I have also heard that Battles of the American Civil War is out, but cannot > If you find it, please tell me. Email from any who know if this is out or not is appreciated. Thanks
jwhitnell@cup.portal.com (Jerry D Whitnell) (01/07/91)
Back to the original question, I just picked up both Sands Of Fire and Harpoon both from Three-Sixty. The good news is these both look to be interesting games where you are in control of the pieces (unlike HOM). The bad news is they, unlike HOM, are obviously MESSY-DOS ports, and I do mean MESSY. Sands of Fire is a tank game that takes place in the North African desert during WWII. I've only had time to play the training mission, but it is set up as an arcade style game with real goals. Graphics are B&W only, shoved in the upper right corner of a Mac II screen. The quality is OK, roughly the same as PT-109, i.e. rather jerky line drawings. Sound effects are ok as well No copy protection, yeah. Harpoon is a WWIII game based on Larry Bond's Harpoon system. It pits the U.S. navy vs. the U.S.S.R navy. It comes in with B&W graphics, but a color version is available for $15 extra. In the game you are a Commander of a task force ranging from several small missle boats all the way up to aircraft carrior with support vessels. Several missions all take place in the North Atlantic (between Norway, Greenland and Iceland). There are plans for additional scenerios in other parts of the world. You have individual control of all ships, planes, helicopters and subs on your side, with even an option for nuclear release, if you want to blow up the world. Graphics are still Messy-Dosish. The funny thing is the manual was obiously done on a Mac, but the game is obviously a port. Now for the dream war game, HOM's graphics with Harpoon play system. Jerry jwhitnell@cup.portal.com
sharp@fsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (Maurice Sharp) (01/08/91)
I picked up Harpoon. I got rid of it soon after. The idea is nice, the combat system is not too bad. But I do not feel like sitting in front of my computer for 3 hours watching ships launch bloody missiles ! maurice -- Maurice Sharp MSc. Student (403) 220 7690 University of Calgary Computer Science Department 2500 University Drive N.W. sharp@cpsc.UCalgary.CA Calgary, Alberta, T2N 1N4 GEnie M.SHARP5
awessels@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Allen Wessels) (01/08/91)
In article <1991Jan7.183629.12723@cpsc.ucalgary.ca> sharp@fsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (Maurice Sharp) writes: >nice, the combat system is not too bad. But I do not feel like sitting >in front of my computer for 3 hours watching ships launch bloody >missiles ! Then why didn't you turn the bloody option OFF?
plague@milton.u.washington.edu (Jack Brown) (01/08/91)
In article <1991Jan7.183629.12723@cpsc.ucalgary.ca> sharp@fsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (Maurice Sharp) writes: > >nice, the combat system is not too bad. But I do not feel like sitting >in front of my computer for 3 hours watching ships launch bloody >missiles ! this can be avoided by changing the setting on one of the menus. It allows you to disable the missile launch pictures. I am not sure which menu, but I think it is game/options... Oh, this is for the Mac version. Jack Brown aka plague@milton.u.washington.edu
jimvons@ashtate (Jim von Schmacht) (01/09/91)
In article <1991Jan7.183629.12723@cpsc.ucalgary.ca> sharp@fsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (Maurice Sharp) writes: > I picked up Harpoon. I got rid of it soon after. The idea is >nice, the combat system is not too bad. But I do not feel like sitting >in front of my computer for 3 hours watching ships launch bloody >missiles ! War IS hell isn't it? These involve more than your usual one on one shoot 'em up engagements, requiring...um...strategy and tactics in a simulation of real combat. How long do you think it takes to play the board games upon which this and other games are based? True, they do appeal to a limited rather than universal audience because of their complexity, but they simulate real world conflicts rather than imagined duels. -- Jim von Schmacht Senior Member, Project Test Staff Ashton Tate Corporation Disclaimer: Standard Issue -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "It isn't the years - it's the mileage" -Indiana Jones
sharp@fsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (Maurice Sharp) (01/09/91)
In article <1991Jan8.175348.23904@ashtate> jimvons@ashtate (Jim von Schmacht) writes: >> [stuff from me on long time spent on missile launches ] >> [this has since been solved] > >War IS hell isn't it? These involve more than your usual one on one shoot 'em >up engagements, requiring...um...strategy and tactics in a simulation of real >combat. How long do you think it takes to play the board games upon which >this and other games are based? True, they do appeal to a limited rather than >universal audience because of their complexity, but they simulate real world >conflicts rather than imagined duels. > >Jim von Schmacht Senior Member, Project Test Staff Ashton Tate Corporation Hiya, Whoooooooa. You must not read this group very often. I often post things about realistic wargames (SSG Halls of Montezuma, PB). I enjoy playing realistic simulations. I liked Harpoon for the realism. I did not feel that watching my ships and the Russians launching was a realistic reflection of time. That is something that happens in addition to the current time scale. So next time, think before you go off half cocked. But I guess it is just a reflection of staid attitudes. maurice -- Maurice Sharp MSc. Student (403) 220 7690 University of Calgary Computer Science Department 2500 University Drive N.W. sharp@cpsc.UCalgary.CA Calgary, Alberta, T2N 1N4 GEnie M.SHARP5