ins_apw@jhunix.HCF.JHU.EDU (Philip Wong) (09/12/90)
Hey, you guys remember Rescue Raiders from the Apple II days? It was the best game probably for my II. Well, Three-Sixty has brought it to the mac world. It is called Armor Alley and will run from a plus to fx (i believe). It runs in 2 or 16 colors and is majorly enhanced. More missions and\ slight fixes in some fo the very very minor problems in the II version. Although you can jinx like you did in the II version (using your Mach III joystick), the control is still quite good with the mouse. Maybe it means investing in a Gravis Moustick... Well, if you liked Rescue Raiders, you'll love this. Has what I have said sound interesting? Well, get this! You can also play up to four players on a net (2players per side or 3 on 1, etc)! Or play 2 players on a net (I personally would love playing 2 player cooperative). You also have the option (for those of us without a nearby net) to play 2 player via modem! Check this game out! ins_apw@jhunix.HCF.JHU.EDU <--use this address, not the UUCP one
weesh@grymoire.crd.ge.com (Darweesh) (09/12/90)
Where can we get it? -Mike Darweesh weesh@crd.ge.com
ylsul@athena.mit.edu (Young Sul) (09/13/90)
In article <6397@jhunix.HCF.JHU.EDU> ins_apw@jhunix.UUCP (Philip Wong) writes: >Hey, you guys remember Rescue Raiders from the Apple II days? It was the >best game probably for my II. Well, Three-Sixty has brought it to the mac >world. It is called Armor Alley and will run from a plus to fx (i believe). >It runs in 2 or 16 colors and is majorly enhanced. Well I for one don't remember this game -- I was banging away in BASIC on a Wang PC (hahahahaha) at the time...can anybody give a microreview or summary of what this game is like (like Sands of Fire)? Young Sul Project Athena, MIT
rbrewer@reed.bitnet (Robert S. Brewer,Box129,7771551,,7754134) (09/15/90)
In article <1990Sep12.170807.3003@athena.mit.edu> ylsul@athena.mit.edu (Young Sul) writes: >In article <6397@jhunix.HCF.JHU.EDU> ins_apw@jhunix.UUCP (Philip Wong) writes: >>Hey, you guys remember Rescue Raiders from the Apple II days? It was the >>best game probably for my II. Well, Three-Sixty has brought it to the mac >>world. It is called Armor Alley and will run from a plus to fx (i believe). >>It runs in 2 or 16 colors and is majorly enhanced. > >Well I for one don't remember this game -- I was banging away in BASIC >on a Wang PC (hahahahaha) at the time...can anybody give a microreview >or summary of what this game is like (like Sands of Fire)? > > Young Sul > Project Athena, MIT Is this actually released now? There was an article in early August looking for beta testers. Has anyone actually gotten a copy via mailorder, like MacConnection? I loved Rescue Raiders for my Apple IIe. It would be incredibly cool to play it on my Mac. And playing multiplayer would be mind-bogglingly awesome! -- Robert S. Brewer rbrewer@reed.bitnet or rbrewer@reed.UUCP (tektronix!reed!rbrewer) or brewer@wri.com (uunet!wri!brewer) This is your brain. This is your brain on spam. This is your brain on spam, with a side order of eggs, sunny side up. Any questions?
taylor@limbo.Intuitive.Com (Dave Taylor) (09/16/90)
Robert S. Brewer asks:
> Is this actually released now?
Well, I got my review copy - with final packaging, documentation, and
even shrink wrapped (unfortunately) - about a week ago from EA. I have
not, as yet, actually cracked it open, but I surmise that it should be
showing up for consumers within a week or two. By the way, I wasn't
that impressed with Sands of Fire (actually I refused to write the
review I thought it was so poor, but that's another story entirely).
I'll say one thing for three-sixty software; they have GREAT packaging!
-- Dave Taylor
Intuitive Systems
Mountain View, California
taylor@limbo.intuitive.com or {uunet!}{decwrl,apple}!limbo!taylorgt0818a@prism.gatech.EDU (Paul E. Robichaux) (09/17/90)
Software Etc. and Micro Center here in Atlanta have copies in stock and have for about a week. It should be available elsewhere as well. -Paul -- Paul E. Robichaux | "Talk about the cutting edge of high BEST: gt0818a@prism.gatech.edu | technology all you like, but remember, OK: ...!gatech!prism!gt0818a | someone's got to hold the knife." Of course I don't speak for Tech. | -Tom Maddox
ins_apw@jhunix.HCF.JHU.EDU (Philip Wong) (09/17/90)
I don't know where you can get the game...contact Three-Sixty about it. This game is maybe a little like choplifter or Stuntcopter (mac) in flying. Thats the only similarity. You control a helicoptor and fly around fighitng computer (now you can fight a friend over modem or appletalk) (or even play you and a friend against the computer or against two other people!). You send out ground troops to take over the enemys base. It's hard to explain and that'll be my microreview. It's definitely arcade action with very little strategy. But fun as hell. I tried the game out and it reminded me of my apple II days and would also like to know when I can buy this one. ins_apw@jhunix.HCF.JHU.EDU <--use this address, not the UUCP one
daveg@Apple.COM (Dave "mr helpful " Green) (09/18/90)
ins_apw@jhunix.HCF.JHU.EDU (Philip Wong) writes: >Hey, you guys remember Rescue Raiders from the Apple II days? It was the >best game probably for my II. Well, Three-Sixty has brought it to the mac >world. >Has what I have said sound interesting? Well, get this! You can also play >up to four players on a net (2players per side or 3 on 1, etc)! Or play >2 players on a net (I personally would love playing 2 player cooperative). >You also have the option (for those of us without a nearby net) to play >2 player via modem! Check this game out! I did some testing for it. It plays well on every released cpu and operating system. It even manages to play fairly between people on different speed machines (thought that plus vs fx would be fun, but it wsa just an ordinary game) It runs under multifinder, has nice color, excellent animation, the guided missiles are awesome, and the computer is quite a skilled opponent. My only beef with the game was the the visual feedback of being in control of this awesome chopper tears you away from thinking of the tremendous amounts of strategy that it requires to "win" the game. I may be a simpleton, but I prefer just going up against human opponents over the net and having chopper wars and forgetting about the ground convoys (the way it evaluates "win") This game has a very nice mac interface and is one of the most compatible pieces of software that I have seen recently. kudos to the fellas that developed this. Dave (network tester for the six-colored fruit company) -- Disclaimer:I am me, Apple is Apple. Why would you ever want to confuse us? ****************************************************************************** * Dave Green * Scratch that, reverse it. * * daveg@Apple.com * Willie W * ******************************************************************************
wwg2101@venus.tamu.edu (GILPIN, WESLEY WILSON) (09/19/90)
Armor Alley sounds really cool. I might even buy it, who knows? Does SoftWhorehouse have it or will I have to mailorder it? Whilst meandering though the mall one day I happened by a software store and noticed several really good looking games. A-10 Tank Killer and M1 Abrams to name a couple. Alas, to my surprise and wonderment they weren't for the Mac but were for that satanic computer I*M! Does anyone know if the two abovementioned games are available for the Mac? If so, where? Backlash Quotes, Disclaimers and * boxes are STUPID!
Sonny.Shrivastava@f555.n161.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Sonny Shrivastava) (09/19/90)
I'm constantly frustrated by game developers bringing 16-color games to
market. Are we back in the old days if IBM CGA color, or what? The Mac
supports 256 colors, so why don't game developers utilize this? I can't
believe 256 color games will be slow - with 16, 25, and 40 MHz CPUs, I think
the systems should have no problem coping.
Are these game companies just lazy to make fancy colorful games? I'm
confused, and would appreciate any clarification anybody has to offer. I
love 256 color games - Tetris, Ishido, Shanghai 2.0, Where in Time is Carmen
Sandiego, etc. I wish all games went to 256 colors, but that's asking too
much. A game like Armor Alley SHOULD be in 256 colors, and there should be a
special Mac II version which will use the entire screen. I'm tired of color
software limiting itself to the screen size of an SE. If the thing runs in
color, it should use the Mac II screen size, not the b/w size of the SE
screen. Geez!
--
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UUCP: ...!uunet!hoptoad!fidogate!161!555!Sonny.Shrivastava
INTERNET: Sonny.Shrivastava@f555.n161.z1.FIDONET.ORGhale@scam.Berkeley.EDU (Greg Hale) (09/23/90)
Sonny.Shrivastava@f555.n161.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Sonny Shrivastava) writes: >I'm constantly frustrated by game developers bringing 16-color games to >market. Are we back in the old days if IBM CGA color, or what? The Mac >supports 256 colors, so why don't game developers utilize this? I can't >believe 256 color games will be slow - with 16, 25, and 40 MHz CPUs, I think >the systems should have no problem coping. > >Are these game companies just lazy to make fancy colorful games? I'm >confused, and would appreciate any clarification anybody has to offer. I >love 256 color games - Tetris, Ishido, Shanghai 2.0, Where in Time is Carmen >Sandiego, etc. I wish all games went to 256 colors, but that's asking too >much. A game like Armor Alley SHOULD be in 256 colors, and there should be a >special Mac II version which will use the entire screen. I'm tired of color >software limiting itself to the screen size of an SE. If the thing runs in Dear Frustrated, In writting Armor Alley, we were under a number of constrains. The most pressing of which was time. Currently, Armor Alley runs on all versions of the Macintosh from the plus up. This includes: System 7.0, and Apple's unreleased machines. In providing this compatiblity we wrote special code for page flipping, regular drawing, color quickdraw, and 16 color mode. While we would have liked to have provided 256 color mode and a enlarged screen there simply wasn't enough time for adding the resulting combinations, which only a small minority of users would be able to take advantage of. However, if sales are good, I intend to add inter-zone play, 256 color mode, an enlarged screen, scenairos w/ editor, custom helicopters, etc... to version two of the product. The Apple II version, Rescue Raiders, appears to be one of the most popular games to pirate. Everyone said they loved it, but no one bought it. If Armor Alley, isn't pirated there will be version two VERY soon. Sonny, is the game not worth buying due to the lack of 256 colors or an enlarged mode? I've found that the best games I've played were completely text: nethack, hunt, and empire. The visual attactiveness of a game helps to sell the game, but is soon forgotten and taken for granted. The content of the game is what provides long term enjoyment. Many people complained about the lack of sound in Rescue Raiders. I found soon they were making their own sounds (with great enthuasim). I think that the imagination is the most vivid colorer. I feel that I may have taken away some enjoyment from the purchaser in adding attractive sounds to Armor Alley. Best Wishes, Arthur Britto II PS If you hate the enemy, Greg Hale did a good job.
ins_apw@jhunix.HCF.JHU.EDU (Philip Wong) (09/24/90)
I disagree most pointedly on some of your points. This game most definitely should not be 256 colors. It's an action arcade type game that hosts up to four players. You want to ad 256 colors so that the whole game is slowed down by screen redraw? Come on! Games like Shanghai or Ishido can easily (and if they didn't, it's just laziness) support 8bit color (and why not 24 bit) because there is no worry about screen redraw. Sure, games that don't need a quick redraw rate should support 8bit color. Arcade type games and especially, games that network should most defintiely not support 8bit-- unless it's taken into account and the refresh rate will not slow the game down. ins_apw@jhunix.HCF.JHU.EDU <--use this address, not the UUCP one
hawley@adobe.COM (Steve Hawley) (09/25/90)
In article <7194.26FA4B18@fidogate.FIDONET.ORG> Sonny.Shrivastava@f555.n161.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Sonny Shrivastava) writes: >I'm constantly frustrated by game developers bringing 16-color games to >market. Are we back in the old days if IBM CGA color, or what? The Mac > >Are these game companies just lazy to make fancy colorful games? I'm >confused, and would appreciate any clarification anybody has to offer. Here's one viewpoint about writing games for the Mac series of computers: The Mac gives the programmer very little in terms of being able to write a program that will run at TOP speed on a machine (something that is sorely needed for a game). There are no bit blitters, and direct access to the frame buffer is damn near an impossibility on the Mac II (what monitor are you running on? What are its dimensions/depth? Are they running on multiple monitors? etc.). You cannot simply write a game that is speed optimized on a Mac becasue you don't know what hardware you'll be running on. In addition, most software houses will not release versions for each particular machine (ie, II, IIci, IIcx, IIfx etc). Apple has given us QuickDraw. This is a set of graphics primitives that reside in ROM and provide consistent graphics across Mac platforms. The problem: not fast enough. Users want smooth, colorful, flicker-free animation. It takes a LOT of sweat to do this (kudos to Ben Haller for Solarian). Now, as to why not 256 colors: OK, we have established the difficulty of getting fast graphics on the Mac. Let's consider the problem of of magnitude. On the Mac plus/se series you can count on each pixel being 1 bit. You can do a read/write to 16 of the buggers at one time with a single instruction. When you go to color, you start getting hit by increases in the magnitude of work you have to do. 16 colors uses 4 bits per pixel. You now can only read/write 4 pixels in an instruction, but you get a bonus -- 32 bit instructions are more efficient on the 68020 and up which are in the II series so you can now do about 8 pixels in an instruction with fairly good speed, and the machine runs faster than a plus or SE, so you get a win there too. When you ask for 256 colors, you are now using 8 bits per pixel, so it will now take roughly TWICE as long to draw any particular object. Remember how important performance is in a game? Yow. It can really hurt performance to get 8-bit color in a game. You listed Tetris as one of the games that you liked in 256 color. Comparatively speaking, Tetris does not require outstanding graphics performance. The game has a very appealing simple design to it, and doesn't do anything outstanding in terms of animation. That makes it easier to sacrifice speed for detail. Let's consider a favorite Arcade game of mine: Defender. Defender is a 16 color game (as well as Robotron, Stargate and Joust). It looks like a whole lot more colors because of careful use of color table tweaking. It is running on a 6809 microprocessor running at 1 MHz. It has NO special hardware for doing graphics. The entire game was written in assembly language and carefully hand-tweaked to get every cycle out of the processor that it could. The sound effects were done on a totally separate board and used almost none of the main processor's clock time. The main board would write to a memory location, the value signifying the sound effect to make, and then it would pull another byte high. The sound board will then start making that sound effect until it it is told to stop or start another. The next time you happen to see a Defender (or Joust, or Robotron or Stargate) notice that it only makes at most one sound effect at a time. Ok, let's take a look at why a machine that is running at a fraction of the clock speed of a Mac II can do a game faster than on a Mac II. A Defender machines does one and only one thing. It plays Defender. It doesn't do spread sheets, it doesn't run a window manager, it doesn't run floppy drives, SCSI devices, track a mouse, run device drivers, support serial IO, it doesn't run the Multifinder. etc etc. A Mac does do all those things. It is a machine that was designed to be flexible in its applications, not rigid. The user base demands that their software will work on every machine released as is. To provide this in a game, you lose big on performance to maintain compatability. Assuming you will be running on one and only one machine allows you to make some assumptions in your software to boost speed in the game (like assuming where the frame buffer will be and assembling/compiling in the addresses to it so you can unroll your loops, or write self-modifying code). You can't do that on the Mac, or if you do you have to have a special case for nearly every possible configuration. Ouch. This is why Megaroids and Chipwits (remember them?) do not run on anything but the Mac 128's without backpatching the code. Even then, they won't run on a II. This doesn't mean that it CAN't be done. It means that it is almost assuredly going to be very difficult and very time-consuming. In addition, the incentive isn't really there. The Mac market is just not big enough (in comparison to, say IBM PC or Nintendo) to justify the investment in time. Suggestion: if you are unsatisfied with a game, write to the company to tell them so, and ask them why they aren't supporting full color. If you don't complain to them, they won't ever know. I found an amusing bug in the original Choplifter (for the Apple ][): it was possible to get the hostages to safety by landing the copter next to the hostages and then lifting off before they got in and landing a little closer to the safe point. Repeating this, the hostages walk back to safety on their own, and are never registered as being saved since they were never in the copter. Once you have gotten the first 6 (since there are never more than 6 hostages visible at one time) to do this, there are no more hostages. Period. I mailed Broderbund a letter, and got a very nice reply from them. They probably had as much of a laugh about this one as I did. As a game programmer, I knew what was going on and wasn't surprised that they missed this one (it *IS* pretty superficial, and I wasn't playing "by the rules"). The trouble with writing games for the Mac is that there a lot more pitfalls you have to worry about. My advice: Voice your complaint to the manufacturer. Be critically supportive, not antagonistically negative. Ask intelligent, honest questions. Let them know when you think they've done something right. The art of correspondence is being lost. Help revive it. And do report back if you get replies. Steve Hawley hawley@adobe.com -- "I'm sick and tired of being told that ordinary decent people are fed up with being sick and tired. I know I'm certainly not, and I'm sick and tired of begin told that I am." -Monty Python
PAT@rcgl1.eng.ohio-state.edu (Patrick Plaisted) (09/29/90)
| | Also, is Armor Alley good? Could someone post a *descriptive* | review? | Well, since no one else has posted a summary yet... I got my copy for $31 at a local computer store (I didn't even have to wait for mail order!). There are some things I like about it and some I don't. First of all, it is a VERY straight forward port from Rescue Raiders. The graphics are a much better (of course), but it still plays the same way. So if you've already mastered it on the apple ][, it's not as fresh on the mac. Not to say that there aren't subtle improvments here and there (there are lots of little things), but it still "feels" like the same old game. The graphics are almost as good as Solarian's. The animation is a little choppy, but acceptable. Acceptable, that is, on a mac II or better. I wouldn't recomend this game if you're playing it on a classic mac. I now see why Ben kept Solarian just on color macs: there ain't enough cpu cycles on a plus or se. This fact makes Armor Alley *quite* sluggish there, but it's plenty fast enough on the bigger machines. I was a little dissapointed about the sound. At least it has sound (which is better than the old days), but it could be better. It's mostly quiet, just an eplosion here, a gun shot there, etc... The computer chopper behaves differently than the Rescue Raiders' one. It's still pretty stupid at low levels, but around level 4 it's taken to ramming me (which is very annoying when trying to provide air cover for my convoy!). It's also harder to louer the the computer chopper into chasing you across the field and away from your convoy. It now avoids my guided missles like I used to avoid its on the apple ][. I think this computer opponent is much smarter than the old one, but maybe it's just because I understood the old one so well. The game also supports up to 4 players on appletalk (2 choppers on each side) or 2 players on modems. I cannot say how the multiple player games work yet as I have yet to find another person who has bought the game. (Yes, in order to play in anything but demonstration mode, all players need to have a game with a different serial number.) Other than this annoying serial number thingy it's not copy protected. The mouse control is excellent! IMHO, one of the big problems with mac games is no good input device. A mouse is great for word processing, but sucks rocks for gaming. At least I used to think that. This is the best mouse controlled game I've ever used. Under the special menu there are lots of nice features. You can control everything about the game, from the type of backround to the speed. A very nice, configurable user interface. They say it's multifinder comptable, and maybe it is if you have four megs of ram, but with two megs I still need to boot up under finder. Things I'd like to see: 1. I have a 13" screen, so why am I only using 9"? This extra real estate could be used for many things, for instance: get my status info out of the playing area and into the extra room. Enlage the playing area, etc... 2. More sounds! And more interesting sounds. 3. Arthur, if you do come out with a version 2 (with all of the nice features promised), what is the upgrade policy? I hate it when I rush out and but something only to find that 6 months later I have to dish out an additional $15 bucks for an upgrade... My conlusions (worth what you paid for them :-) ): All in all, a good game (on a COLOR mac). It's getting a little old for me (as I already played the game to death on my apple ][), but is much prettier here! If you've never played Rescue Raiders on the apple ][, GET THIS GAME. You'll find it colorful, adictive, and it will be fresh for you. If you have played it, you'll find this an excellant port: it maintains the original feel and playability while adding some small features and nice graphics. Now, is there ANYBODY here at OSU (or columbus for that matter) that I can play against? I'm dying to really try this multiple player stuff... | Thanks, | | Zack Pat =========================================================================== Patrick Plaisted |pat@agvax2.ag.ohio-state.edu System Programmer | or if you want to Ohio Cooperative Extension Service | torture me with unix: The Ohio State University |pat@klingon.eng.ohio-state.edu 2120 Fyffe Rd. Room #109 | Columbus, Ohio 43210 | (614) 292-4338 =========================================================================== I'm not quite sure who's ideas these are; I think they're mine...
Sonny.Shrivastava@f555.n161.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Sonny Shrivastava) (09/30/90)
I only wish the game was in 256 colors. 16 is nice,but 256 is better. People keep telling me that 256 color games will run slow. How can this be? Most color Mac CPUs run at 16 MHz or greater, and are 68030 machines. I would think they could handle such colorful animation. What's the story?
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INTERNET: Sonny.Shrivastava@f555.n161.z1.FIDONET.ORGSonny.Shrivastava@f555.n161.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Sonny Shrivastava) (09/30/90)
I hope you didn't think my 256-color message sounded too mean or negative. In fact, I looked at Armor Alley at a local store, and it looked pretty good in 16-color mode. If you plan on coming out with a 256-color version, I will go right out and buy the 16-color version now. If it's support you want, you'll get it from me!
Thanks! I just wanted you to know that there are some people here who would like to see more 256-color games for the Mac II which use the full screen. Although we might be a minority, we still like to play games - and if I see software like this (or sincere promises as you have made), I will purchase it without hesitation.
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INTERNET: Sonny.Shrivastava@f555.n161.z1.FIDONET.ORGSonny.Shrivastava@f555.n161.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Sonny Shrivastava) (09/30/90)
I don't see how the refresh rate can be slow on a 16 or 25 MHz 68030 CPU. Sure, the CPU takes on a big burden, but it's a fast CPU. The 8 MHz Amiga does great color animation and game-play - I would think a 16 or 25 MHz 68030 color Mac would at least be its equal, don't you?
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INTERNET: Sonny.Shrivastava@f555.n161.z1.FIDONET.ORGSonny.Shrivastava@f555.n161.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Sonny Shrivastava) (09/30/90)
Thanks *very* much for your very curteous and detailed response - it's much more than I ever expected, and I really appreciate it. I think I can understand why writing game software for the Mac market isn't as easy as I originally thought. I have a Mac, and don't think much about the work that goes behind a product, to make it compatible and useful for all Mac owners.
I see that my machine has 8-bit capability, yet I see very few games that take advantage of this. However, I also understand from the point of view that there aren't that many Mac II class machines out there to justify the added work entailed by writing 8-bit color games. Perhaps when Apple introduces their low-cost color machine, things will improve a little. Even the 16-color games I enjoy highly - I just took a look at Armor Alley, and was impressed. I also have SimCity, and am not disappointed - so
me games seem to look very good in 16 colors, and wouldn't appear to benefit that much from 8-bit.
I wonder though, obviously 8-bit game software for the Mac would run a little slow. Is this the case on DOS machines? I am seeing a lot of VGA-only games on the market which have stunningly beautiful graphics. When these games have Macintosh counterparts, I often see them in only b/w or 16-color. Is it easier to write fast color game software for DOS machines? Again, thank you for your wonderful reply - it gave me a very good understanding of color on the Mac.
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INTERNET: Sonny.Shrivastava@f555.n161.z1.FIDONET.ORGgmohr@sandstorm.Berkeley.EDU (Gordon J. Mohr) (09/30/90)
In article <5907@quanta.eng.ohio-state.edu> PAT@rcgl1.eng.ohio-state.edu (Patrick Plaisted) writes: > >The graphics are almost as good as Solarian's. The animation is a >little choppy, but acceptable. Acceptable, that is, on a mac II or >better. I wouldn't recomend this game if you're playing it on a classic >mac. I now see why Ben kept Solarian just on color macs: there ain't >enough cpu cycles on a plus or se. This fact makes Armor Alley *quite* >sluggish there, but it's plenty fast enough on the bigger machines. As one who beta-tested Armor Alley on an SE, I'd have to disagree with the "*quite* sluggish" claim. While occasionally choppy or slow on a crowded screen, I wasn't bothered by it, even after I had a chance to play it on a IIcx. It still feels a fast as the Apple ][ version, and once you've played for a while, you forget about any speed concerns (unlike some games, where they get more and more frustrating). If any cycle-stealing debugging code remained in the version I tested, then the released version is probably even faster. -Gordon Mohr gmohr@ocf.berkeley.edu
gford@nunki.usc.edu (Gregory Ford) (10/04/90)
Has anyone tried out this game yet, in multi-player mode? I bought the game myself, and it runs fairly well in single-player mode (I won't tell you about the saved games that became corrupted overnight -- the games I had been playing for several hours, that is). My roomie has an SE (I have a Mac II), and we are appletalked together, so we thought we would try it out. He took my originals and typed in some bogus serial number (the docs say it has to be a different serial number when you play multi-player). The game beeped a few times, and didn't like his serial number until he finally guessed a good one. No, No, No, I'm not advocating pirating software, but this was to try out the multi-player mode. Didn't matter -- it didn't work. First we couldn't get it to run on the SE. Turned off the RAM cache like it said, even turned off all the inits, still no good. Finally, we resolved to turning off multifinder (runs fine in MF on my Mac II) and it ran on the SE. Selected the "Appletalk" under Network or whatever menu command that was, and it was impossible to get a game running. Appletalk rarely found the other computer. Whenever it did, one or the other machines would crash when you selected "begin". Then we tried the modem connection. I would call his computer, and the program would answer and immediately hang back up. He would call mine with the same result. After 3 or 4 hours of restarting machines, troubleshooting, we gave up. Armor Alley is a good game -- it had me hooked for a long while, but it still has a good number of bugs. I certainly hope they get them fixed soon. However, I don't recommend anyone buying this software with the hopes the can play each other over appletalk or modems. It just doesn't work. Anyone else have any luck? -- ******************************************************************************* * Greg Ford GEnie: G.FORD3 * * University of Southern California Internet: gford%nunki.usc.edu@usc.edu * *******************************************************************************
bbs@alchemy.UUCP (BBS Administration) (10/05/90)
In article <2525@ns-mx.uiowa.edu> randy@tessa.iaf.uiowa.edu (randy frank) writes: >Anyway I love the game but I only wish the authors would have left the >code to the cheat menu out of the program. Care to elaborate on that? How does one enable the menu? Tell me tell me tell me! >rjf. >Randy Frank, Engineer | (319) 335-6712 -- John John Donahue, Senior Partner | UUCP: ucrmath!alchemy!{bbs, gumby} | The Future Alchemy Software Designs | INET: {bbs, gumby}@alchemy.UUCP | Begins Now -------------------+---------+-------------------------------------+----------- Communique On-line | +1-714-243-7150 {3, 12, 24, 96HST} Bps. 8-N-1 | Next Wave: Information System | Alchemy Software Designs Support System | Communique
jch@public.BTR.COM (Jack Hwang) (10/05/90)
I got Armor Alley a week ago from a local shop. Although it run very slowly on my SE. I think I can endure -- since I can recall the old happy time on Apple ][. The most troublesome problem was: I spent 1 hour to make it running. At first, I just try to run it. Well, the result was as the other netters experienced -- no multifinder. Ok. Turn off Multifinder. Reboot. Turn off memory cache. Reboot. Drag out INITs. Reboot....... At last, I turned off my external hard disk and used a bare system disk to boot! This was a very frustrated experience. I don't think I can put all the INITs and MF away since I got a frequent use of them. But that also means I can not play the game without any pain. Sigh! Jack Hwang
jch@public.BTR.COM (Jack Hwang) (10/07/90)
I'm playing Armor Alley. And get a lot of funs. But the problem is that if my game failed in half way, the funds will fall down to $32. That makes the living more harsh after the battle becoming more difficult. I am always lack of cash. Is there any trick to get the money real fast? Jack Hwang
jmunkki@hila.hut.fi (Juri Munkki) (10/08/90)
In article <7623.270D1E97@fidogate.FIDONET.ORG> Sonny.Shrivastava@f555.n161.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Sonny Shrivastava) writes: >I only wish the game was in 256 colors. 16 is nice,but 256 is >better. People keep telling me that 256 color games will run slow. >How can this be? Most color Mac CPUs run at 16 MHz or greater, and are >68030 machines. I would think they could handle such colorful >animation. What's the story? I think the main reason is that NuBUS causes video card RAM to have an access time of 300 ns. Games usually use the full 640x480 resolution or even more. I guess you could double or triple the speed of 16 color 640x480 animations by using a 320x240 window with 256 colors. ____________________________________________________________________________ / Juri Munkki / Helsinki University of Technology / Wind / Project / / jmunkki@hut.fi / Computing Center Macintosh Support / Surf / STORM / ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
koehn@vms.macc.wisc.edu (11/24/90)
I purchased Armor Alley to play on my accellerated Mac Plus w/Big Picture 17" display, and found (not too suprisingly) that it didn't work. This isn't what bothered me. What bothered me is when I turn off the accelerator/monitor, I STILL can't play the game. Except, of course, if I run under System 7.0, in which case it comes closer to working. I just don't get it. If anybody else out there has a similar experience, or wants to know what it's like running an accellerated Plus (hey, it's 18% faster than a IIci), mail me. Brad Koehn "Fly like an Emu!"
hale@scam.Berkeley.EDU (Greg Hale) (11/25/90)
koehn@vms.macc.wisc.edu writes: >I purchased Armor Alley to play on my accellerated Mac Plus w/Big Picture 17" >display, and found (not too suprisingly) that it didn't work. >This isn't what bothered me. >What bothered me is when I turn off the accelerator/monitor, I STILL can't play >the game. Except, of course, if I run under System 7.0, in which case it comes >closer to working. >I just don't get it. Brad, The best place to get help for your Armor Alley problems is from the publisher. If you call them and they can't help you, then I call you. Best Wishes, Arthur Britto II Co-Author of Armor Alley O; \\// Greg 'All Black Stones Die' Hale, alias "The Leprechaun Guy" &-- o----o Internet: hale@scam.Berkeley.EDU (128.32.138.1) |\. \__/ UUCP: ...!ucbvax!scam!hale (415) 601-7500 "Shodan"
bochen@sdcc13.ucsd.edu (Meathead) (11/25/90)
I had problems with my Mac Plus, too, so I called up the company. There are a few things you can try. First, the obvious, turn off all those damn inits (this one works for a lot of things). Second, run under uniFinder. If this doesn't work, try setting the date of your clock back a couple of months (weird, but they said it might work). Finally, try turning off the ram cache--it worked for me.
6600kato@ucsbuxa.ucsb.edu (Bryan Kato) (03/07/91)
The other day a couple of friends & I split for two copies of Armor Alley so that we could play on the IIx network hooked up here at school. I must admit, playing Armor Alley in color on a network blows away b&W any day of the week. If anyone out there has ever played choplifter (from the Atari 800/C-64/Apple II+ days), AA is kinda like that only way better. Hmmmnn, did that make any sense? What I'm trying to say is if you liked Choplifter you'll love Armor Alley. . .especially on a network. One thing we noticed was that even thought we bought two copies of the game, we could use the two different serial numbers on each game. How would you (assuming there are hundreds of serial #s) program something like that? (BTW the two numbers didn't seem to have any pattern at all). -Bryan
jhaslup@cs.arizona.edu (Jason A. Haslup) (03/07/91)
In article <9694@hub.ucsb.edu> 6600kato@ucsbuxa.ucsb.edu (Bryan Kato) writes: > >One thing we noticed was that even thought we bought >two copies of the game, we could use the two >different serial numbers on each game. How would >you (assuming there are hundreds of serial #s) >program something like that? (BTW the two numbers >didn't seem to have any pattern at all). > >-Bryan I suspect that they're using some sort of formula that converts the letters to their ascii codes, and then runs them through some formula. Then, if that formula comes out with the correct number, it'll let you personalize it. It'd be kind of neat to actually see what that formula is. Jason -- --- Jason Haslup --- at the University of Arizona
uuvvuu@mixcom.COM (Craig L. Stodolenak) (03/08/91)
6600kato@ucsbuxa.ucsb.edu (Bryan Kato) writes: >If anyone out there has ever played choplifter (from >the Atari 800/C-64/Apple II+ days), AA is kinda like >that only way better. I believe it's a lot closer to Sir-Tech's old "Rescue Raiders", but that topic has already been discussed in detail here. -- Craig L. Stodolenak "In a consumer society there are inevitably two mixcom!craig%uunet.uu.net kinds of slaves: the prisoners of addiction and craig@mixcom.com the prisoners of envy." -- Ivan Illich
wieser@fsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (Bernhard Wieser) (03/09/91)
okay, here are my pros and cons to AA: pros: Great Game, expecially if you have more than 2 players on an AppleTalk network using at least 16MHz machines. Action packed, hours of fun. cons: Stupid programmers bind their socket name to socket 0 based probably on useless high level libraries routines - can really kill your network. No program needs 1.7M of memory at the same time! Crashes constantly with After Dark. The service # provided is ALWAYS busy. Does NOT work with many 2400bps modems, including my GVC 100% Hayes compatible and my friends Teleport. Useless on any 8MHz machine (like my classic). Very touch about the preferences file - i.e. will self destruct if you turn off your machine when it hangs with your modem. -- ( Bernie Wieser, wieser@cpsc.ucalgary.ca, BSWieser@uncamult.BITNET ) ( 4rth Year Dbl.Mgr Cpsc Clhc University of Calgary | ) ( S/H Developer Dept. of Psychology, " " " \|/ ) ( Octavian Micro Development Group --- o --- )
kjpires@ic.Berkeley.EDU (Kurt J. Pires) (03/12/91)
Armor Alley(TM) is a Rescue Raiders port for the Mac and IBM PC (soon to be released). It is by the same authors, but a different publisher. Kurt Pires, Senior Network Designer, Information Access Technologies, Inc. of Berkeley, CA (Armor Alley is a trademark of Information Access Technologies, Inc.)
kjpires@ic.Berkeley.EDU (Kurt J. Pires) (03/12/91)
The new version of Armor Alley(TM) will have faster play on the Mac Classic. The 1.7Meg of memory is only necessary for color play. The new version will have a reliable modem protocol and solve modem play setup problems. Lastly, the preferences file code is more robust. This version is currently being tested. I'm glad you like the game. Have fun... Kurt Pires, Information Access Technologies, Inc. (IAT) (Armor Alley is a trademark of IAT)
ted@cs.utexas.edu (Ted Woodward) (03/12/91)
In article <11902@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU> kjpires@ic.Berkeley.EDU.UUCP (Kurt J. Pires) writes: >The new version of Armor Alley(TM) will have faster play on the Mac Classic. >The 1.7Meg of memory is only necessary for color play. The new version >will have a reliable modem protocol and solve modem play setup problems. >Lastly, the preferences file code is more robust. >This version is currently being tested. >I'm glad you like the game. Have fun... >Kurt Pires, >Information Access Technologies, Inc. (IAT) >(Armor Alley is a trademark of IAT) Will the new version run under MultiFinder on an SE? I've got 1.01, and it won't, but will on a ci. What's the relationship between IAT and 360? Does IAT write it while 360 markets it? Any idea when the new version will be released? Will it be free to registered users? (I hope so...) -- Ted Woodward (ted@cs.utexas.edu) "Mad scientists HATE shopping for shoes!" -- Peaches
ksun@jarthur.claremont.edu (Kang Sun) (04/08/91)
Are there any teleporting keys in armored alley? I played rescue raider on an apple and a friend of mine showed me how to teleport between battles (type Zippy-#) or position of the chopper (j,k,l, I believe for your commander center, center of the battlefield, and enemy's command center respectively). Thanks ksun@jarthur.claremont.edu
wking@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Bill (Kingpin) King) (04/08/91)
In article <11587@jarthur.Claremont.EDU> ksun@jarthur.claremont.edu (Kang Sun) writes:
$
$Are there any teleporting keys in armored alley? I played rescue raider on
$an apple and a friend of mine showed me how to teleport between battles
$(type Zippy-#) or position of the chopper (j,k,l, I believe for your
$commander center, center of the battlefield, and enemy's command center
$respectively).
$
$Thanks
$
$ksun@jarthur.claremont.edu
WOW, if there is even something remotely similar to that in Armor Alley,
that would be fantastic. I have one question also: What version is
Armor Alley up to now (Armor Alley X.X). Thanks for any and all info.
Bill
--
WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! -Ric Flair