trb@floyd.UUCP (Andy Tannenbaum) (09/03/83)
Though I in no way advocate anyone gunning passenger planes out of the sky, I see no evidence that the Korean plane wasn't in the wrong. I have heard allegations from non-Soviet sources that the Korean pilots often infringe on Soviet airspace to save time and fuel (money) against Soviet wishes and joint agreements. While the airspace over Kamchatka might be worthless to you, it is the eastern line of defense for the Soviet Union, and they don't want their enemies flying over it. I believe that Korean jets had probably violated the rules too many times, perhaps the Korean pilot had lost communication or refused to communicate out of fear/guilt. The Russians saw a threat, and snuffed it. Again, I don't advocate murder. On the other hand, the evidence is so sketchy right now, that I can't just call the Russians wrong either. Andy Tannenbaum Bell Labs Whippany, NJ (201) 386-6491
padpowell@wateng.UUCP (PAD Powell[Admin]) (09/06/83)
Well, as much as I hate to argue with TRB (I usually lose), I will simply
giggle, and say, "I told you so!" Firstly, I will state that I have
seen unclassified reports, and released classified reports, indicating
and documenting beyond my rather stuffy level of disbelief (sp?) that the
Soviet air defence forces have regularily overflown Canadian territory,
and on one occassion in the last 6 years were escorted out. Note that this
was not a "minor" incident involving one plane, but a squad (kinda hard to
hush this up, given numbers), and I gather from comments of a military
attache of the USA, that "they sort of idled their way out, with no great
concern". I forsee in the very near future, a couple of Soviet NMW's
being blown out of the sky, but I doubt if you will hear about it...
Patrick ("Wonder what happens when they start overflying from Cuba?")
Powellphil@amd70.UUCP (09/06/83)
Here's my chance to get my mailbox filled with hate mail by expressing my opinion of what the Russians did to the Korean 747: As far as I'm concerned, the Russians had a right to do what they did. The 747 should have landed so an inspection could be done and any surveillance equipment destroyed. Once the 747 leaves Russian airspace, there is no way to determine if it was in fact spying or not. I am told the Russians operate on a "guilty until proven innocent" principle. It's the opposite of what we do, but that doesn't mean it's wrong. By the way, the Chinese probably hate the Russians more than Americans do, being that much closer (neighbors, actually). Phil Ngai (these opinions are my own and do not necessarily reflect those of my company)
stevel@ima.UUCP (09/07/83)
#R:floyd:-195100:ima:28800003:000:748
ima!stevel Sep 6 09:14:00 1983
Andy is ignoring the fact that Soviet and Cuban airliners
have regularly "strayed" over restricted airspace above US bases
so regularly that the goverment no longer allows aerofloat to fly
over the US. They use to have a flight from Havana to Montreal
that flew over the eastern US but it seems they kept on getting
off course and flying over one of the two major storage area for
NUCLEAR wepons in the eastern US (just north of Ithaca, NY). This
base was several hundred miles from where they were suppose to
be. This was despite air traffic control telling them they were
off course.
I don't like the arms race but I really don't trust or respect
the Russian goverment.
Steve Ludlum decvax!yale-co!ima!stevel, {ihnp4|ucbvax}!cbosgd!ima!stevel,eager@amd70.UUCP (09/09/83)
There is a world of mis-information available on the net: the latest is with reguard to Cuban Airlines straying out of the flight path on the way to Montreal. As I understand it, this occured twice, the plane was about 10 miles off course, and apparently did fly over some airbase(s) on the way. The FAA (I believe) suspended their priveledge of overflight for a period of two weeks. Not a major incident. About Aeroflot (sorry, not aerofloat) the USSR airline, I believe they have had access rights similar to the flights of other countries. I had heard something about suspending landing and overflight priveledges after the KAL shoot-down.
eich@uiuccsb.UUCP (09/09/83)
#R:hw3b:-12400:uiuccsb:3200005:000:305 uiuccsb!eich Sep 8 19:28:00 1983 Yesyesyes. The Koreans are a mite carless. But the Soviets (even their military flights) are constantly flirting with everyone elses' airspace, so perhaps KAL expected a little reciprocity. It's nice to be cautious, but in this instance a hesitation to call the act wrong seems a little tendentious.