[comp.sys.mac.games] Comments on Your Spaceward Ho 2.0 Comments

commons@Sunburn.Stanford.EDU (Peter Commons) (06/01/91)

Just thought I'd chime in here to say a couple things:

1) Thanks a lot; I really appreciate the suggestions. Keep any new thoughts
   coming.

2) Some people have suggested using 7.0 toolbox stuff. That's a problem, as
   we'll definitely want it to run on Plusses using 6.0.

3) I kind of like the elegance of the fact that Spaceward Ho! is not so
   complex that it takes three weeks just to learn how to play it. If I added
   every feature people suggested (eg. doubling the number of techs, etc.), it
   might lose a bit of that charm. Thoughts?

Please keep posting to the newsgroup rather than replying to me.
-- 
Peter Commons		
commons@cs.stanford.edu	
Computer Science Department, Stanford University

wildfire@aix01.aix.rpi.edu (Douglas B Rusch) (06/01/91)

I just wanted to respond to the problem of complex rules. I agree that
the game should be basic enough to learn very quickly. But having played
Spaceward Ho! dozens or so times, I would like there to be a little more
to it. Thats why I think there should be many options or levels of play.
There should be a level where Spaceward Ho! is now, so that beginners
can quickly get a feel for the game. But I would there to be more
variations to play against. Right now, I think that once you have mastered
the economics of the game, you've basically mastered all that there is.
The strategy is simple, you basically butt heads until the weaker side is
dead. There is little room to creatively win the war. Also, there are no
tactics, all the battles are out of the realm of the player. While adding
things that make the game more intricate will also increase play time,
increase turn complexity, slow down the computer players, and be hell on
the programmers, they may be just what a particular player is looking for.

wildfire@aix.rpi.edu
.

conty@cbnewsl.att.com (The Conty) (06/01/91)

In article <1991May31.185541.9033@neon.Stanford.EDU>, commons@Sunburn.Stanford.EDU (Peter Commons) writes:
> 
> 3) I kind of like the elegance of the fact that Spaceward Ho! is not so
>    complex that it takes three weeks just to learn how to play it. If I added
>    every feature people suggested (eg. doubling the number of techs, etc.), it
>    might lose a bit of that charm. Thoughts?

Agreed.  I'll choose good gameplay over "detail" and "realism" any day.
I'd still like to have a "retreat" option, tho.  :-)

-- 
			    E n r i q u e  C o n t y
			  The Amazing Man-With-No-Life
			      jester@ihlpl.att.com

johnsone@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu (Erik A. Johnson) (06/01/91)

commons@Sunburn.Stanford.EDU (Peter Commons) writes:
>Just thought I'd chime in here to say a couple things:
>
>2) Some people have suggested using 7.0 toolbox stuff. That's a problem, as
>   we'll definitely want it to run on Plusses using 6.0.

How difficult is it to check at launch for System 7?  If it is there, have the
capability to do Balloon Help, etc.  If Sys 7 is not there ... take appropriate
action, do not use Sys 7 stuff.


Erik A. Johnson, Graduate Student        \ Internet:  johnsone@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu
Aeronautical & Astronautical Engineering  \
University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign \ AmericaOnline: ErikAJ

brendan@cs.uq.oz.au (Brendan Mahony) (06/03/91)

In <1991May31.185541.9033@neon.Stanford.EDU> commons@Sunburn.Stanford.EDU (Peter Commons) writes:

>3) I kind of like the elegance of the fact that Spaceward Ho! is not so
>   complex that it takes three weeks just to learn how to play it. If I added
>   every feature people suggested (eg. doubling the number of techs, etc.), it
>   might lose a bit of that charm. Thoughts?

A lot can be done in this area by adding some artificial intelligence
style rule bases. Let fleets and planets etc be run by their rule base.
Provide some standard rule bases that essentially make these objects
work the way they do now, but also let the players define their own rule
bases. This way beginners could play games against experts, probably
they would lose but at least they can play. This would also speed up
play as the player could automate a lot of things that have to be
repeated regularly.

Some examples of rule sets might be:

Control the colonization and exploitation of a planet. Players could try
out various economic and political techniques.

Control the tactics and objectives of a fleet in a space battle. This
would allow players to try out various tactics, formations and fleet
compositions to see what they find suits them.


In any case you could add all the complexity you liked to the game and
players could take notice of it or not, depending on what interests them
and their level of familiarity with the game.

--
Brendan Mahony                   | brendan@batserver.cs.uq.oz       
Department of Computer Science   | heretic: someone who disgrees with you
University of Queensland         | about something neither of you knows
Australia                        | anything about.

johna@intacc.uucp (John Allen) (06/05/91)

I've been following this exchange about the new version of Spaceward Ho with
rapt attention and growing frustration. This sounds like one of the best games
on the Macintosh and I can't find it anywhere. I have over twenty Mac games
and only a handful I warrant could keep up this interest in another version.
So will somebody please send me an address of the software maker or
distributor so that I can order either new version or the old version or both.
Thanks a lot.