jp48+@andrew.cmu.edu (Jonathan Pace) (12/11/90)
I've had Bane of the Cosmic Forge: A New Wizardry Gaming System on order from MacWarehouse since Oct. 30. Has anybody out there been able to get the game anywhere else? I'm getting tired of waiting and I'm ready to look elsewhere and pay more. Since I am waiting, does anyone know what I'm going to get? I'm interested in the similarity to the old series (I play all of them on my Apple) and any imrovements that have been made to take advantage of the Macs abilities. Thanks for any information you have. Jon Pace
pdubois@sandstorm.Berkeley.EDU (Paul DuBois) (02/20/91)
In advertisements I've seen for Wizardry 6: Bane of the Cosmic Forge they state that it is available for the Macintosh. Has anybody seen it anywhere yet or is it currently just more vaporware? (and is it in color or B&W?) pdubois@ocf.berkeley.edu
jp48+@andrew.cmu.edu (Jonathan Pace) (02/21/91)
Bane of the Cosmic Forge is vaporware!!! I ordered it from MacWarehouse on October 30 and have been on backorder from then on. It seems the game has been delayed in testing at Sir-Tech. The newest expected release date I have been fed is March 8. Oh yes, it's in color. Jon
Nicholas_Brooker@kcbbs.gen.nz (Nicholas Brooker) (02/23/91)
further to that. What Wizardry games are available for the mac? I used to play them on the Apple // and though only the first was on the Mac.
careyk@uhccux.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu (Carey Kinoshita) (02/26/91)
In article <4bm0uWC00WB8M6S1dy@andrew.cmu.edu> jp48+@andrew.cmu.edu (Jonathan Pace) writes: > > Right now you can only get Wizardry I and II for the Mac. There has been >a write in campaign trying to get the III, IV & V scenarios released. If >you'd like to see that, please drop Sir-Tech a line. > > Sir-Tech Software > P.O. Box 245 > Ogdensburg, NY 13669 > (315) 393-6633 Someone should start a write in campaign to Origin System to get them to release the new Ultima games for the Macintosh and that runs in true Macintosh color (not color translated from IBMs).
jcc5_ltd@uhura.cc.rochester.edu (Jackson Cheng) (04/06/91)
Hey, after all this talk about Wizardry and the ninja's. Is "Bane of the Cosmic Forge" out for the Mac? Is it Wizardry V? If anyone's got it, how does it compare with the other wizardy's? My favorite has been the first one. I've solved the second and played some of the third. But they were rather disappoint-ing compared to the first. Well, any comments will be welcomed. Thanks. Jaxon.
jp48+@andrew.cmu.edu (Jonathan Pace) (04/06/91)
No, it's not out. Sir-Tech says another month. It's not Wizardry V either. Sir-Tech doesn't even call it a Wazardry game series. It's just advertised as "Wizardry-like". If you have access to another system (like an old Apple IIe) go out and get Wizardry IV & V. They were both very good scenarios, at least on the Apple. Jon
rogue@gagme.chi.il.us (rogue) (04/13/91)
To all those who don't know, Bane of the Cosmic Forge is finally available from MacWarehouse. I just got my copy yesterday. I haven't played yet, but I can say that it is much more extensive on player stats. There are more character classes, better spells and many other things which make it appear to be great. By the way, you better have a hard disk for it. It came on 6 diskettes.
jfe@vax5.cit.cornell.edu (04/13/91)
I read from somewhere that the Bane of Cosmic Forge requires *3* megs to run in colour. Is it true? Or did someone made a typo and wrote 3 megs instead of 2 megs? =============================================================================== | T. H. Brian Chung | | | Tens of math credits | "So in my small way, | | Hundreds of physics credits | I'm a big man on Mulberry | | And an attitude... | Street." | | | | | jfe@cornella (bitnet) | Billy Joel | | in%"jfe@vax5.cit.cornell.edu" | | | (internet) | "Let's see what's out there." | | | | | | Jean-Luc Picard | ===============================================================================
jp48+@andrew.cmu.edu (Jonathan Pace) (04/14/91)
It depends on what you call memory. Bane requires 1800k FREE memory to run in color. Add in system memory and your system needs >3Mb to run it. I know that's not a legal memory configuration, but with the new computers having screwy configurations, I thought I'd let everyone round up on their particular system. Sorry if I confused the subject. Jon
rogue@gagme.chi.il.us (John Doe) (04/14/91)
Argh! I hate this game. I hate the interface, the cheap graphics, the sounds which I can't turn down (or off), and the manual. The interface is bothersome, if not downright annoying or insulting. I would have preferred a 5 megabyte game with the true MacIntosh feel, not the CGA graphics and 4 bit color. Obviously, they never saw Quarterstaff. How hard could it be to make it "nice" on the Mac? They must have spent more time making it look and feel like an IBM then it would have taken them to do it the right way. I am really disappointed. I don't mind that it was inexpensive, but I do mind that IBM atmosphere. If anyone from Sir-Tech is reading this, let me suggest this: if you make a more Mac like version, even if it takes up more disk space and memory. Even if you might have to remove some of the character classes and professions. Even if the cost would be doubled. I would not hesitate to pay more for it. I might even return the game to MacWarehouse just because of the interface. Anyone else considering doing the same? I had a problem starting the game and I need some help. I did everything the manual said (I think). I create a party, I then wanted to play. I'm assuming that once you have a party, you hit exit to get to the restore saved game screen. I hit restore save game, type the correct words for the symbols, then it gives me a disk error. What am I doing wrong? -- rogue
tel@adimail.UUCP (Terry Monks) (04/15/91)
Before anyone suggests such a thing, I had *absolutely* nothing to do with Sir-Tech's latest Mac release, "Bane of the Cosmic Forge," apart from giving them my opinion that the interface was...troublesome. -- Terry Monks Automata Design Inc (703) 472-9400
jcc5_ltd@uhura.cc.rochester.edu (Jackson Cheng) (04/16/91)
A quick question about this game. I heard that you needed the first Wizardry to play this??? Is this true? Do I have to go out and get the first one in order to play this? I had a IBM version of Wizardry I, and I gave it away after having solved it many times over. I am considering buying Bane of the Cosmic Forge and was told by the operator at MacWarehouse that I needed the first one. Is this true? Jaxon.
jp48+@andrew.cmu.edu (Jonathan Pace) (04/16/91)
I'll back Terry Monks up on this one. I played Wiz II and II after he ported them to the Mac and he did a VERY GOOD JOB. Why they didn't use him for this game I'll never know. Terry, if you read this, you can tell S-T that they really f***ed the game up on the Mac. Great game, lousy interface. Jon Pace
es2q+@andrew.cmu.edu (Erik Warren Selberg) (04/16/91)
so Terry -- who DID have something to do with the port (I see a
megabyte of mail coming here...)
...they call me... ARPA: es2q@andrew.cmu.edu / "I didn't say it.
fluppie? BBS: (412) 683-1235 / Nobody saw me type it.
Fido: 129/107 / They can't prove anything."jp48+@andrew.cmu.edu (Jonathan Pace) (04/16/91)
They LIE! Bane of the Cosmic Forge stands alone. Oh how I wish I could do a character transfer. Jon
tel@adimail.UUCP (Terry Monks) (04/16/91)
In article <kc2V7qq00VoE03hFNv@andrew.cmu.edu>, es2q+@andrew.cmu.edu (Erik Warren Selberg) writes: > so Terry -- who DID have something to do with the port (I see a > megabyte of mail coming here...) The program was not really ported. Since the base version was for a 68000 machine (Amiga) all they did was to find the video buffer and stuff in their graphics. Hence the problems with resolution and 24-bit boards. I understand there will be a fix for the 24-bit boards within three weeks. The author, David Bradley, called me a couple of times to complain about Apple and the "Macintosh way," and we had several nonsensical conversations about "video modes" missing on the Mac, and the non-utility of MultiFinder. Those who are interested in ResEditing the new progam will find to their possible amazement that there are no resources apart from CODE and the SIZE resource that I suggested he added. As I have said elsewhere, the game has excellent content, if you are not troubled by its non-Mac aspect. It is quite understandable that they decided to produce a Mac version with t the absolute minimum effort and cost. And, after all, it works. -- Terry Monks Automata Design Inc (703) 472-9400
s8105119@ipc10.tmc.edu (Gary Kevin MAKIN) (04/17/91)
In article <868@adimail.UUCP> tel@adimail.UUCP (Terry Monks) writes: >It is quite understandable that they decided to produce a Mac version with >the absolute minimum effort and cost. And, after all, it works. I really cannot agree with the philosophy behind the idea of doing a quick port. Many games (epsecially role playing and strategy games) really benefit from having a good Macintosh user interface in place. The game becomes far more accessable, and more enjoyable, and would be more likely to be recommended by word of mouth, IMHO. Once the Mac game market reaches critical level, this will become important. I expect that the games that have been developed properly for the Mac will outsell those that were ported cheaply, and sales is the name of the game after all. This is the state of the productivity software market for the Mac, after all. A better situation for everyone would be if the game designers considered the Mac version right from the start. Then the improvements to the user interface that would be implemented on the Mac, can be put on all machines (to a degree, antway). Gary Makin Mac programmer for Strategic Studies Group
rotberg@dms.UUCP (Ed Rotberg) (04/18/91)
From article <868@adimail.UUCP>, by tel@adimail.UUCP (Terry Monks): > In article <kc2V7qq00VoE03hFNv@andrew.cmu.edu>, es2q+@andrew.cmu.edu (Erik Warren Selberg) writes: >> so Terry -- who DID have something to do with the port (I see a >> megabyte of mail coming here...) > > The program was not really ported. Since the base version was for a 68000 machine (Amiga) all > they did was to find the video buffer and stuff in their graphics. Hence the problems with > resolution and 24-bit boards. I understand there will be a fix for the 24-bit boards within > three weeks. > > The author, David Bradley, called me a couple of times to complain about Apple and the > "Macintosh way," and we had several nonsensical conversations about "video modes" > missing on the Mac, and the non-utility of MultiFinder. Those who are interested in > ResEditing the new progam will find to their possible amazement that there are no > resources apart from CODE and the SIZE resource that I suggested he added. > > As I have said elsewhere, the game has excellent content, if you are not troubled by its > non-Mac aspect. It is quite understandable that they decided to produce a Mac version with t ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > the absolute minimum effort and cost. And, after all, it works. ----------------------------------------------------------------- > > > -- > Terry Monks Automata Design Inc (703) 472-9400 I have no reason to take exception with Terry most of the time, but the above cannot go without appropriate response. Terry, first of all, IT DOES NOT WORK! Not on an fx, and not with a 24-bit board. At least they warn you about the 24-bi board on the package. As you know, it really is not very much work to convert the graphics to PICT format and the display software to use Quickdraw to display them. This is probably the minimum that it would take to gain campatibility. Ratherthan go through the arguments twice tho, I'm including the text of a letter that I'm sending to Sir-tech today. April 17, 1991 Sir-tech Software, Inc. Ogdensburg Business Center, Suite 2E P.O. Box 245 Ogdensburg, NY 13669 Attention: Product Development Dear Sir or Madam: It is with great disappointment that I write this letter. I have been a Sir-tech customer since my purchase of the original Wizardry 1.0 for the Macintosh when it was first released (I believe in 1985). Since that time I have had a lot of respect for your company based largely upon the quality of the software and the care with which it was ported to the Macintosh platform from its original Apple II version. It was therefore quite a shock to discover your latest offering to the Macintosh market, BANE OF THE COSMIC FORGE. It was with much anticipation that I awaited this work upon learning of it from your direct mailing, especially in light of the many hours of enjoyment I had from Wizardry. When I first received the package I eagerly installed it onto my Mac II fx, undaunted by the fact that the application showed only the generic application icon. This should have been my first clue. As you are undoubtedly aware, the program will not run on a II fx. It will not run with a 24-bit video board. From reading the manual and comments I have since read on USENET, it appears that it doesn't even come close to following the Macintosh user interface guidelines. In short it is nothing more than a blatant attempt to rip off your loyal Macintosh customer base with a ridiculously minimal effort. I understand that the Mac market is not a large percentage of the entire market. It therefore makes sense that you would not want to add an exorbitant amount of time to the conversion of the game for minimal return. However we are not talking monumental effort here. By storing your graphics data in standard (and compressed I might add) PICT format, and using the built-in Quickdraw routines for rendering them to a window (or offscreen bitmap...) you would have added less than one week to the development time, and assured compatibility across all Macintosh display systems. If display speed were an issue (which would not seem to be the case in this game), a little more effort would have allowed custom routines to work at high speed when the monitor was set to the appropriate bit-depth (witness SOLARIAN - a shareware game - by Ben Haller). As for insuring that the program works on all Macintosh platforms as claimed in your documentation - this can only be attributed to pure sloppiness or blatant misrepresentation. Again, the effort necessary to make this product work on the fx is probably measurable in weeks, not months. Failing a willingness to even make this effort, your advertisements and packaging should indicate the incompatibility with the fx instead of claiming "Mac Plus or better". Realizing that this game is a conversion, I am more than willing to accept non-Mac graphics. I would even accept (although not without some remorse) a non-Mac interface if it worked properly (such as in POOL OF RADIANCE). But selling a product that simply does not work is inexcusable. Foisting this product off on the Mac community can only serve to greatly diminish your company's reputation - a reputation that was previously unblemished. This is precisely the type of product that separates legitimate software houses from the "fly-by-night" and "no warranties on quality expressed or implied" types. I'm afraid that you have made a dangerous step in the wrong direction with BANE OF THE COSMIC FORGE. Whoever made the decision to release this product has made a very grave error, and I would think that leaving him or her in a position to make other such decisions that can so adversely affect the reputation of your company should be seriously reconsidered. I have been in the video game business for over twelve years. As such I have had to deal with bad conversion of my software by others in that time. I am always deeply affronted by people and companies willing to sell vastly sub-standard software in order to make a quick buck. I am amazed that D.W. Bradley, if he had any say-so at all, allowed this product to go to market as is. While I would welcome the opportunity to purchase and play any reasonable version of this game, I am returning this program to the place of purchase along with a copy of this letter. It is really too bad that a product that has the potential that this one does is so miserably executed. I am also posting a copy of this letter to USENET in order to warn other potential customers. I would recommend that a public apology is in order. I have never, in all my years in computers and game design, ever felt that I had to speak out on a product in this fashion. It is most regrettable to me that I feel that I must do so now but I can only characterize the decision to market this product in its current state as a "money-grubbing at any cost" attitude, with no concern for the consumer. Sincerely, Ed Rotberg Designer of Atari Baseball, BattleZone, Snake Pit, Blasteroids, STUN Runner, Shuuz, and others
nvi@mace.cc.purdue.edu (Charles C. Allen) (04/18/91)
I ordered it last week, before I saw the reviews here on the net. It's even worse than I was led to believe. I'd return it, but MacConnection doesn't have a return policy for Sir-Tech stuff. The interface is grotesque. All the "pixels" are actually 2x2 on the Mac screen. It uses no Mac interface elements whatsoever. This doesn't even qualify as medicore. Folks, don't settle for this. I hope that instead of buying the game, you write a letter to Sir-Tech explaining that you will not buy such shoddy products. I'll certainly be writing a letter. Perhaps they'll get the picture. Charles Allen Internet: cca@physics.purdue.edu Department of Physics HEPnet: purdnu::allen, fnal::cca Purdue University Bitnet: cca@fnal.bitnet West Lafayette, IN 47907-1396 talknet: 317/494-9776
tel@adimail.UUCP (Terry Monks) (04/19/91)
Yah, but I did say that *I* had nothing to do with it. All your comments are interesting and I am extremely glad that you sent that letter to Sir-Tech. Apart from that, that's all the biting of hands that once fed me that I want to do at this stage... -- Terry Monks Automata Design Inc (703) 472-9400
kenh@eclectic.COM (Ken Hancock) (04/23/91)
In article <1232@dms.UUCP> rotberg@dms.UUCP (Ed Rotberg) writes: > [letter to Sir-Tech stating how they had become money-grubbing > pigs who release cheap software, deleted...] Bravo! Now if everyone who purchased the game would do the same thing, maybe they'd do a decent job next time. (Or possibly just not do it...) Ken -- Ken Hancock | INTERNET: kenh@eclectic.com Isle Systems | Compuserve: >INTERNET: kenh@eclectic.com Macintosh Consulting | AOL: KHancock | Disclaimer: My opinions are mine, | your opinions are yours. Simple, isn't it?
kenh@eclectic.COM (Ken Hancock) (04/23/91)
In article <7252@mace.cc.purdue.edu> nvi@mace.cc.purdue.edu (Charles C. Allen) writes: >I ordered it last week, before I saw the reviews here on the net. >It's even worse than I was led to believe. I'd return it, but >MacConnection doesn't have a return policy for Sir-Tech stuff. Tell them you have a 24-bit board and that it doesn't work on your system. I'm sure they'd make no fuss to taking it back. MacConnection is a wonderful company. Ken -- Ken Hancock | INTERNET: kenh@eclectic.com Isle Systems | Compuserve: >INTERNET: kenh@eclectic.com Macintosh Consulting | AOL: KHancock | Disclaimer: My opinions are mine, | your opinions are yours. Simple, isn't it?
nvi@mace.cc.purdue.edu (Charles C. Allen) (04/26/91)
< <nvi@mace.cc.purdue.edu (Charles C. Allen) writes: > >I ordered it last week, before I saw the reviews here on the net. > >It's even worse than I was led to believe. I'd return it, but > >MacConnection doesn't have a return policy for Sir-Tech stuff. < kenh@eclectic.COM (Ken Hancock) writes: > Tell them you have a 24-bit board and that it doesn't work on your > system. I'm sure they'd make no fuss to taking it back. > MacConnection is a wonderful company. That would be dishonest. It *does* work on my system, it's just that the game itself is crappy. I see no reason why MacConnection should have to pay for my mistake. They've given me excellent service over the years, why should I try to cheat them in return? Charles Allen Internet: cca@physics.purdue.edu Department of Physics HEPnet: purdnu::allen, fnal::cca Purdue University Bitnet: cca@fnal.bitnet West Lafayette, IN 47907-1396 talknet: 317/494-9776
ccastcr@prism.gatech.EDU (Everett Mullis) (04/29/91)
nvi@mace.cc.purdue.edu (Charles C. Allen) writes: >< <nvi@mace.cc.purdue.edu (Charles C. Allen) writes: >> >I ordered it last week, before I saw the reviews here on the net. >> >It's even worse than I was led to believe. I'd return it, but >> >MacConnection doesn't have a return policy for Sir-Tech stuff. >< kenh@eclectic.COM (Ken Hancock) writes: >> Tell them you have a 24-bit board and that it doesn't work on your >> system. I'm sure they'd make no fuss to taking it back. >> MacConnection is a wonderful company. >That would be dishonest. It *does* work on my system, it's just that >the game itself is crappy. I see no reason why MacConnection should >have to pay for my mistake. They've given me excellent service over >the years, why should I try to cheat them in return? Give me a break. They sold you something crappy. Get your money back. _Dishonest_???? Do you think for one second that they're going to write in they're MacConnection ads: "Buy Bane of the Cosmic Forge! Yes, it's been near unanimously condemned by all lovers of the Mac interface, but it's got some neat stuff in it also!" Hell no. The only way to get the message to these people is to hit them financially. Do yourself and the Macintosh community a favor, and return the game. ----I thought about aborting this reply because it's probably get a lot of arguments, but then again, that's a reason not to abort it. :-) -- Russo, Chris A. Georgia Institute of Technology, Atlanta Georgia, 30332 uucp: ...!{decvax,hplabs,ncar,purdue,rutgers}!gatech!prism!ccastcr Internet: ccastcr@prism.gatech.edu
kenh@eclectic.COM (Ken Hancock) (05/01/91)
In article <27558@hydra.gatech.EDU> ccastcr@prism.gatech.EDU (Everett Mullis) writes: >nvi@mace.cc.purdue.edu (Charles C. Allen) writes: >>< kenh@eclectic.COM (Ken Hancock) writes: >>> Tell them you have a 24-bit board and that it doesn't work on your >>> system. I'm sure they'd make no fuss to taking it back. >>> MacConnection is a wonderful company. > >>That would be dishonest. It *does* work on my system, it's just that >>the game itself is crappy. I see no reason why MacConnection should That's true, it would be. My guess is if you called them up and told them you were seriously disappointed with it and that you were surprised that MacConnection would sell something of such a shoddy-quality that they'd be happy to take it back as well. MacConnection isn't going to be out $35. They either get credit from the manufacturer or re-shrinkwrap it and resell it. I still have no qualms telling them otherwise, as the game is a shoddy piece of software and people are buying it unaware. If you wish to return it, try my second suggestion and express your unhappiness and your lack of faith in buying from MacConnection again... (while the first part isn't lying, the second part might be stretching the truth, but what the heck...) Ken -- Ken Hancock | INTERNET: kenh@eclectic.com Isle Systems | Compuserve: >INTERNET: kenh@eclectic.com Macintosh Consulting | AOL: KHancock | Disclaimer: My opinions are mine, | your opinions are yours. Simple, isn't it?
aland@chaos.cs.brandeis.edu (Alan D.) (05/02/91)
Mac-Connection has a money-back guarantee on most of their items... -=Alan -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Who, me? Nope, I didn't say that. Must have been my evil twin Who am I? aland@chaos.cs.brandeis.edu <Alan D.> Where am I? Brandeis University Box 3130 Waltham, MA 02254-9110 When am I? 9-5, M-F, Rain-Shine Why am I? Whaddyawant, a philosopher? =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
kanderso@liege.ICS.UCI.EDU (Kenneth Anderson) (06/11/91)
Are there any Bane of the Cosmic Forge players out there? I posted a question about the game on Sunday, and so far no one has replied. Is there really no one playing this game besides myself? Just Wondering, Ken Anderson P.S. On a completely different subject, I just thought I would put in my two cents about Delta Tao the company that sells SpaceWard Ho! After reading all the comments about SpaceWard Ho! on the bboard, I decided to buy it and check it out. (That way I'll be notifed when version 2.0 comes out) The service was very friendly and I received my package in the mail today!
kanderso@liege.ICS.UCI.EDU (Kenneth Anderson) (06/30/91)
Howdy, I'm stuck once again!
Minor spoilers ahead for people who have not made it past the castle or mountain
I have finished the pyramid, I killed Mau-Mu-Mu and found the other ruby.
I rushed back to the castle, put the ruby in the door and opened it. Went
downstairs and found the river. Now what?!!!!!!
Some questions....
1. There is a gate that I cannot open in the same hallway as the skull door.
It is the first gate on the left as you head down the hallway towards the
door. How do I open it?
2. I have 3 copper keys, and 12 iron keys, but they don't open anything!
Will I use these once I get past the river? I also have another Key
of Spades which doesn't open anything....
3. There are two gates down in the Mines which I cannot open. These two are
frustrating because you can clearly see a chest in the room beyond the
gate!! Any clues as to how to open them?
4. There is one tower in the castle which I have yet to visit. If you are in
the room which has a fountain which restores stamina, to get to the tower
that I am referring to, you go one step east, and then one step north.
If you go up the stairs, you have to turn to your east and then you
run into yet another gate. Has anyone got past this one?
As you can see, I need help!
Any info would be appreciated...
Thanks in advance,
Ken Anderson
P.S. Thanks for the help in solving the pyramid!